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General discussion

What would you do: fix or buy a new computer?

Apr 21, 2017 5:40PM PDT

Hi! I am not tech savvy so here goes. I have a 2010 Dell system with Windows and Outlook. Lately, I have been getting a blue screen with lots of wording and telling me to contact my system administrator. I did take it to my computer guys who checked it out, kept it several days and said that the hard drive and inside components are fine. My computer guys also provide my internet connection and do service on my systems when I need it. After over a week of testing, they said that they also experienced a blue screen and said it might be a Windows problem. One of the guys said that maybe if I change to a Solid State Drive and reinstall Windows (I have them do all my backups) this might work – at a cost about $350 total for a 500GB solid state drive and labor. Also said that if eventually my computer dies, I can take out the solid state drive and use it on a new one. I would need to also reinstall all my programs such as Outlook, etc. Cost for their one-week diagnosis and testing the computer system was $95.


Big question: The computer is a 2010 Dell 8100 SPX Studio with a 2010 Outlook Professional program. If I spend $350 plus what I have already spent, I am out $450. What if this does not fix the problem? I typically get my computers at Costco. Should I instead get a new system which might cost $1K more or less? What would the techie world do? I continue to periodically get the blue screen (like every other day or less) and just shut it down and start again and usually it is OK for the rest of the day. I am learning to live with the inconvenience and have thought of continuing this until I can no longer breathe life into it. Thank you.

--Submitted by Carmen L.

Discussion is locked

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New seems best
Apr 21, 2017 6:53PM PDT

I'd be very reluctant to put a new solid state drive in a 6 ot 7 year old machine in hopes it 'might' correct it the problem. A new computer would seem to be the best avenue. If you do go new, don't overlook considering a Mac. More money but generally fewer operating system issues.

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Stupid advice....
Apr 28, 2017 6:33PM PDT

OK, idiot whose computer will never be more than a year old; I had someone whose ancient Windows XP computer barely worked - and we visited Good Will Computerworks together, and he bought a seven year old duo core machine, with Windows Vista (which is useless), and a larger hard drive, a RAM upgrade, and I installed ubuntu on it, and he is as happy as a clam!

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Question
May 1, 2017 3:03PM PDT

How happy are clams, though, really?

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Well, I know a few and they said very happy.
May 1, 2017 3:08PM PDT

But they're spamming me now so I told them to clam up.
Dafydd. Devil
PS. Most of them use Clam AV.
Mod edit.

Post was last edited on May 1, 2017 3:16 PM PDT

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an unhappy clam
May 1, 2017 10:11PM PDT
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(NT) LOL!!
May 2, 2017 11:57AM PDT
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Actually Dell computers are slow to die
Apr 28, 2017 6:38PM PDT

Actually, that computer that I refurbished for a friend was a 2009 or 2010 Dell. At that point Dell was making Duo Cores. Old Dell machines are usually good to go - they put out a good machine. Careful workmanship put out machines that are not at all quick to die. I worked at a Dell manufacturing facility for a while. I live in Austin, Texas, and this city is flooded with old Dell computers from state agencies and private users, that work perfectly well. In fact, I have a Duo Core of that age running on my desk next to my Windows 7 computer that I built myself.

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Totally Agree about Dell built to last
Apr 28, 2017 6:59PM PDT

I do my own computer repairs ( retired Petrochem Engineer in Houston). We have 6 pcs ( all Dell used either remanufactured or pieced together by me). They just don't die. 4ea Dell Latitude laptops and 2ea Optiplex Desktops. I have Comcast with speed tests of 80MB/s to 240 MB/s internet and can do everything I want or expect a pc to do. They are all 2008 vintage dual core machines. I have added upgraded cards with USB 3.0 for drive expansion.

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Refurbished Dell Owner
Apr 28, 2017 9:48PM PDT

True that about old Dells. I have 2 refurbished Optiplex desktops I bought about 6 years ago and they are still going strong. We use one as a home theater pc and the other gets occasional use by one of the adult kids or grandskids when the laptops, ipads or chromebook are all being used. They remind me of the old Timex watch ad (if you're old enough to remember them). They take a liking and keep on ticking.

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Different grades of Dell
Apr 29, 2017 6:50PM PDT

I seriously doubt a Dell bought a Costco is a Lattitude or Optiplex. "Consumer" grade Dells like Inspiron are built to lower standards.

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I also seriously doubt
Apr 29, 2017 6:59PM PDT

you even know what costco sells. maybe go to their website and check for yourself. they are generally the same computers dell sells on their own website. as far as being built to a lower standard. maybe have less ram or a smaller drive but I don't consider that being a lower standard. Most users dont use the ram they have or all the storage space on a large drive.

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I agree about DELL quality...
Apr 29, 2017 2:01PM PDT

Usually blue screens are caused by driver conflicts, but I suppose operating system corruption could be one cause. Carmen doesn't say which operating system is installed - perhaps he/she upgraded to Window 10 and a driver is reluctant to cooperate? If it were me, I'd simply do a recovery and update everything before recovering backups, and see if that does the ticket - Who knows maybe Windows 10 would work better on it? A computer built in 2010 is certainly newer than mine, but mine won't install Windows 10, so I'll just chug along with my Windows 7 - and it works swimmingly.

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Love my 2008 Dell Vostro 200 Duo Core
May 2, 2017 10:04AM PDT

Runs Win XP SP3. Office 2003 loads faster than Office 2013 on my Dell XPS12, though this machine with a SSD and Win10 does boot faster. But then I do not have to put up with pesky updates which on more than one occasion have brought the XPS12 to a screeching halt. MacAfee Virus Scan still supports WinXP too. Now here is my problem, Firefox has stated that they will no longer support XP as of September. Not aware of any other browsers that support XP. Suggestions? Thanks,

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Only two browsers..
May 2, 2017 12:17PM PDT

When I was on Vista, both Chrome and Firefox quit working for me; but then I insist on upgrading to the latest version. You can usually get a past version by going to File Hippo and looking for them on the download page or Firefox.

My Vista installation was running so well I just couldn't upgrade, but my IE 9 wasn't working too well except possibly on on the 64 bit version. My anti virus provided a browser that worked great for me. Avast has one called Safe Zone that may get you by on XP as well. I just warn you though, any XP machine that stays connected to the web will eventually blow up! It has happened to a lot of my clients, even though they had a lot of protection running in real time on the machine. The only way I could see to keep going is to find out how to install Steady State, a free utility made by Microsoft to practically end all malware problems on the host machine. However, MS has stopped supporting it, but you can find it here on CNET for download. I'm sure there are forums out there that can advise how to install, and use it - you might have to use a separate drive or partition for your files, however.

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I must add..
May 2, 2017 12:24PM PDT

that Steady State was designed for the old spinning magnetic hard drives. so it might not work for an SSD. Read the reviews on CNET for Deep Freeze, as I am sure it has a paid version that may work on the new drives.

Then you can use your old out dated operating system without a care. You might not need antivirus again!

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Too much money
Apr 21, 2017 7:11PM PDT

There is not a lot of info here. It would be hard to justify spending almost $500 on your old machine. For about $600 you can buy a machine much more powerful then your old one. You don't say if you're running windows 10. I would reset Windows. It's available in windows 10. See if that helps. Why would you add a SSD to a 7 year old PC? You're trying to fix it,not speed it up. Also,based on prices of SSDs. That's a lot for labor. I'd buy a new PC.

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I'd go for a new one
Apr 21, 2017 7:19PM PDT

I was in a situation like yours too. Got a blue screen every few days. Eventually it went totally bananas. At that point I just bought a new computer. Once I had the new one, I had time to fool with the old one. I found it had gone bananas due to some memory I had recently added that had gone bad. I'm pretty sure the original blue screen problem was cured by reinstalling the operating system. I use it as a home theater PC now, and knock on wood, it's been running fine.

So getting back to you, you're in for some pain either way, I wouldn't put a SS drive in it (and at current prices, I'd still go for a mechanical HD), but if you clear the current drive and reinstall the OS, or put in any new hard drive, or buy a new computer, you're looking at reinstalling everything that was on the drive. I wouldn't want to go through all that on a 7 year old computer, that you're hoping will work again. One more pain to deal with is that you probably had XP or Windows 7 on the old one and there will be a short learning curve to learn Windows 10 (IMHO don't get Windows 7, it will be unsupported during the life of your new computer).

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The decision should be based on your requirements and budget
Apr 21, 2017 7:22PM PDT

You didn't mention which operating system you have, so I'll assume it's Windows 7 (64-bit). This Dell model was available with either an Intel Core i5 or Core i7 processor. The other piece of critical information that was missing is whether the computer still suits your requirements. When it isn't blue-screening, does it still function quickly enough for your needs?

A computer doesn't need to be replaced due to age if the operating system is still supported and the machine it is still performing within your expected requirements. If all you do is read email, watch occasional streaming content and surf the web, a 7-year-old computer may still be adequate.

Recurring blue-screens on an otherwise healthy system generally suggests faulty RAM components or CPU overheating. You should be able to download a utility such as MemTest, or use the Dell Diagnostics to do a comprehensive CPU and RAM burn in test. If that exposes errors, your cheapest solution is to replace the RAM module(s). Check that your CPU fan and system fans are functioning properly and that your ventilation around the box is sufficient (good access, and dust-free vents).

Assuming you decide to keep the computer, check how much of your computer's hard drive you're using. If you decide to buy an SSD drive, your computer boot up time will speed up significantly, as will operations performed directly on the computer (reading and writing data on the drive), but internet performance will only improve marginally. You should invest in an SSD drive that's about 50% larger than the amount of space currently used up on your computer. However, if you have the budget for a larger SSD, the larger they are, the longer they last.

The decision to buy a new computer puts you into a whole other league for cost. If you do get a new computer, use a program like Laplink's PC Mover to migrate all your data AND PROGRAMS from the old computer to the new one. It will save you lots of time (and possibly money) transferring / re-licensing your software.

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Slim odds
Apr 28, 2017 8:40PM PDT

In my experience, the odds are small that memory will fail after a number of years. MEMTEST-86+ is really good for testing memory that is added to or replaces memory in a computer, along with close reading of memory specs to make sure the memory and the computer are compatible. I would place my bets on a failed hard drive (no matter what Carmen's techs claim) or failing graphics card. Older nVidia cards have a too high rate of failure because the manufacturer's use inadequate cooling or the video card fan simply clogs up with dust and dirt.

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Good information, but...
Apr 29, 2017 7:00AM PDT

In what study does it show, that larger SSD have a longer life span than smaller ones? Just like to know, I understand that as the technology matures and the way the information is written to the drive can affect this, but this is a generational improvement and not related to size. I own 12 SSD drives, 9 currently running in systems, the oldest units are boot drives for my HTPC's and are 7 years old, and still going strong.

Also, your information on using Laplink to move programs while correct, may have other problems. If she bought her Dell computer with Outlook included, it is an OEM version, which means the software license for that program is tied to her Dell computer, not to her. Moving it to another computer is piracy. This would apply to Windows, and any other software that was installed on the computer when purchased, unless it came with a retail license.

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Why larger SSDs are more reliable
Apr 29, 2017 10:18PM PDT

I can't point to any studies, but with the Samsung EVO 850 line of SSDs they warranty the larger SSDs for 150TB of data writes vs. 75TB for the smaller drives. This is not because the hardware is built any differently but because when you have more memory cells available you have more cells you can spread the writes across for write leveling purposes so that you don't wear out memory beyond the ability for the drive to correct for. They recommend that you reserve 10% of the drive as dead space for wear leveling purposes. You should never completely fill an SSD.

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generational improvment....
Apr 30, 2017 7:57AM PDT

But it is a hardware difference, if you compare the 850 to the 840, which because the 850 was using the new TLC V-NAND allows them to effectively double the writes per cell, up from 1000 to 2000, and in the pro line going from 3,000 to 6,000. This is really not a concern in most home use, but in a data center it would be. Anandtech had a very nice article about this, just search 850 evo writes per cell. I run 2 850 EVO 500 GB drives in a raid 0 on my main box, yes, I am aware that a raid 0 has no redundancy Happy , and lose 1 drive, lose all my data, but that is why I have 2 NAS boxes, a Dlink with 4TB raid 1, and a Synology 12TB with a raid 6. Full backup every month, and incremental weekly.

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Nice about turn.
Apr 30, 2017 10:38PM PDT

You do it without thinking or without understanding that you practice exactly the opposite to your first statements. You incidentally write less to your drives, but you see it as redundancy and data security.

In the old days you had to switch on all peripherals, then the PC. Switch off the other way round. That was tech bound. You also had to switch off for at least 30 seconds before rebooting to remedy issues. Funny thing, with all the latest tech and software going, that still works. Why? A capacitor is a cap is a cap. High speed batteries, regulated by resistors and coils on the board. Drum caps, micro SMD (14 nanometer tech now), whatever. Their function remains the same. They may discharge in less time now, but are still time bound. The charges are your memory that is lost when you shut down.

All physical memory media are physically altered by changing electro-magnetic or light pulses impacted on it. Even DVD's can be read again even after some seven pass military grade disc wiping processes.

There is another factor in how disc/memory management is done. It deals with the registers. These tell the manager the addresses where to store the data, but on a full disc the last bit is carried over to bit number 33 or 65, but they aint there! Blue sky! It works like the odometer on your car. But here the manager goes crazy, loses its mind. The address falls of the PC's known universe and it start hunting, Data corruption!

No, I still don't think it a good idea to wring the last drop out of the stone.

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don't waste time....
May 1, 2017 9:51AM PDT

....wiping CD and DVD's. Just microwave them 5-7 seconds.

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Or shred it..
May 2, 2017 2:21PM PDT

My shredder has a CD/DVD slot in it, and I use it a lot!

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Way Cool!
May 3, 2017 3:32AM PDT

But my microwave can hold more than 100 CDs/DVDs at a shot!

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Dang!..
May 3, 2017 7:31AM PDT

That'd start a fire in my microwave! LOL! Laugh

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What decision to make.....
Apr 21, 2017 7:42PM PDT

Fixing it vs buy new.
You would have to look at cost mainly As has been said already there are great quality cheap computers out there if you cruise the refurbished sites for the big names (Dell, HP) Being a tech myself I would question replacing the hard drive with a solid state drive just to fix a blue screen. First thing I would do in diagnosing it would be to test the hard drive to see if it was going bad. If it was I would then look at what the computer is used for by the person. At that point I would present the options of a Solid state drive or a classic hard drive. As a tech I try to present all options to a customer rather than say "Hey upgrade your hard drive to fix a blue screen." it could be resulting from a issue different than the hard drive. It could be a corrupt program, driver, or memory just to name a few.

There's been discussions like this ever since the first home computers started being upgraded. It boils down to a few key points all are preferences.

Pre-built vs Do It Yourself
In Pre-built systems you'd be looking at price point and computing power. There are a lot of pre-built systems available through the Company refurbish web sites that are quiet powerful but for a good price. Sometimes you might have to spend a bit more customizing it. But generally they can be a good deal.

In Do It Yourself, if you have time you can shop around and piece together a system but you need to be somewhat tech savvy to pull this off. There are a few web sites that can make this easier, PC Parts picker is one (https://pcpartpicker.com/) the site also does a good job of shopping around for you to get a good price on parts. Another site is pricewatch.com. This site would let you look for the best price on a single part for the system being built. BUT, you would need to know the name of the part you're looking for (ie for a video card: Nvidia GTX-980) Also doing it yourself allows you to customize the combination of case, monitor and all the components in the box.

Cost: Can you afford it? (simple enough)
Time: Do you have the time to wait for a good deal on parts. Waiting until the new parts roll out, (usually around CES) and picking what used to be popular could provide some future proofing of the computer so it doesn't go out of date for the operating system (goodbye windows XP) and support for gaming, if you do that sort of thing.

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Assumptions
Apr 23, 2017 7:28PM PDT

That assumes that buying new will actually fix the problem. I don't believe that there was enough work at narrowing down the cause of the blue screen and could result in the problem moving to the new computer.

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Nope - that won't happen - Blue Screens don't just move to n
Apr 29, 2017 12:59AM PDT

Your Blue Screen could have a number of causes, but none of them would carry across to a new machine unless you move some component (or software) across. It would be good if one could identify the actual cause of the blue screen, because that would influence the decision.

But before you throw around lots of much needed dollars, let's think this through first:

To give you a few ideas - a "popular cause" is a flakey memory module, sometimes only acting up under thermal stress, which could then be explained by a failing fan, or flakey power, or corruption on your hard drive - any of these and many more can be of a temporary nature, so it is quite possible that you get a blue screen a day, but your computer guys get only one a week, because their office is generally cooler than yours.

Their tests should have included a memory test as well as checking out the fans in your computer and verifying that the power supply is producing all the right voltages under all normal conditions.

A power supply is quick and cheap to swap out on most "normal" machines, running a machine for a while with reduced memory capacity to exclude a faulty module is also not expensive (you may want to "top up" your memory after you have identified the faulty component.) If there was corruption on your disk - which can happen without the disk going bad, simply by a power failure or surge at the wrong moment - running a "repair" of your WIndows might solve the problem and that is something that a savy friend might do for free and your computer people might do at a reasonable price. Unless you actually _want_ a new machine you should try these before spending any real money. I know your computer shop people said that there was nothing wrong with your machine, but from a distance and with some more experience I think we are allowed to take that with a grain of salt, especially from someone that wants to sell you a 500GB SSD as a solution. Now, a 500GB SSD is a really nice thing but it won't fix your problem any better than the alternatives.

Let's see: You will be impressed with the speed, but speed wasn't your problem, right? Installing a fresh copy of Windows may well fix the problem, but it will be a lot of work to reinstall all your software. If a repair of the existing Windows works you have solved the real problem much quicker and for much less money. It would only take a few minutes. Then, to check and - if need be - replace fans is also a lot less of an investment and if you did find a bad fan you will know that you fixed a real problem.

In fact, come to think of it: If you decide to spend money, get a new or refurbished machine and see if you can't find a community project near where you live that would be interested in your old machine - some of these will find volunteers that can fix the machines for the use of the project or as donations to needy families. Where I live some of the good work of these projects involves teaching youngsters computer skills in the process of repairing older machines, also by mixing and matching components from several machines to bring as many of them as possible back to life. You may even decide that it wouldn't be half bad if you had a backup machine yourself ...

But before you spend significant sums, be sure you understand fully how that will fix your problem. Example: If your existing disk drive isn't broken then replacing it with a big SSD won't fix anything, it will just add a "nice to have" component. Or - a complete reinstall of Windows: that could also be done on your existing hard drive (or a new conventional disk or a smaller and therefore much cheaper SSD) But the repair that I suggested is likely to accomplish the same thing and doesn't cost anything except a bit of time.

There is another thing you might want to do: Try and figure out if the shop people were seriously trying to sell you an expensive (if nice) piece of hardware on purpose or if some techie's own dream of the ideal storage solution was getting the better of him. Depending on that I would consider checking out other stores in future.

Then - once you come to the conclusion that you can't avoid throwing money at this -