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General discussion

What's your take on the next-generation DVD format wars?

Mar 7, 2006 7:37AM PST

What's your take on the next-generation DVD format wars?

Blu-ray all the way (tell us why)
HD-DVD, that's for me! (tell us why)
Too early to tell; I'm waiting it out (tell us why)
Not interested (why not?)
What the heck are you talking about?

Discussion is locked

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BetaMax/BluRay
Mar 8, 2006 12:57AM PST

Well - as ALSO having been burnt by ending up with a VERY expensive Betamax player, when all the BetaMax tapes were being yanked off the market; perhaps it might serve to recall that Betamax was a Sony product and a far better system than VHS. So maybe we shall see the same story play itself out here - again - the better BluRay being subjugated by the earlierToMarket alternative, just because it got there earlier.

Perhaps Sony will have learnt its marketing lesson this time?

Lawrence

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Really Not Interested
Mar 8, 2006 1:25AM PST

Right now I'm not watching TV. I've got a 5month old that provides a hell of alot more entertainment than a TV. Maybe in 4 or 5 yrs I'll look at TV again then I'll worry about whats on the market.

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Next generation DVD type formats
Mar 8, 2006 1:33AM PST

It's not the size of the storage medium which concerns me, we will all probably work within it.
What I am much more interested in is how durable will they be?
I have many Cd's and DVD's which are becoming unuseable, some after as little as a year.
Bring back the shellac gramophone record!!
Keith T

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Patience pays off
Mar 8, 2006 1:47AM PST

I too remember the Betamax/VHS situation a long time ago and if I remember well, there even was a third system i.e. Philips 2000. I then waited it out and I was very glad I did. Therefore...... wait it out and save money!
Walter

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Down with Sony
Mar 8, 2006 2:36AM PST

I'm definitely going to sit and wait until there is a clear winner but i am hoping that its not blu ray.

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So called HD-DVD - Blu-Ray Wars
Mar 8, 2006 3:22AM PST

I?m going with HD-DVD because I don?t not feel at this stage that Blu-ray is the far superior format; that has still to be proved in the public domain! The Blu-ray is said to be the more expensive, is this because manufacturers wish to re-coup their developments costs more quickly? We are lead to believe that it has the larger storage capacity and we will be able to fit a full-length movie encoded at 1080p on a single disc. So what! 1080p is not currently available for many in the States and most certainly not in the UK and that extra space simply isn't necessary. I do not want Sony to win the so-called next-den DVD wars. It is the customer that should win NOT the manufacturers. We all should have all learnt from the Betamax-VHS debacle. If there is to be a so-called winner I willing to invest in the HD-DVD format for one simple reason economical reason - it's will be more affordable and is backwards compatiable with my current DVD collection! And by the way how likely will we be able to tell the difference in quality between the two?

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Blu-Ray and HD-DVD Advantages and what it takes to win...
Mar 8, 2006 3:31AM PST

I think sony has some advantages with blu-ray. First. no one will want to buy a format that doesn't have any movie titles availible for it. I would consider investing in a new PS3, but that depends on the price, but I do feel that the PS3 release will be helpful to blu-ray and that is a second advantage. A third advantage is that blu-ray is a better format with more capasity and better possibilities, but that is an advantage that wont matter much to most consumers. The only advantage HD-DVD has is price, but that is really all it needs. I don't think the earlier release will help it considering how short of an advantage it is, and how long it takes for these new technologies to catch on.

If HD-DVD is able to keep a considerable price advantage over blu-ray and produce a large ammount of titles quickly, then it will be able to win the format wars, but if blue-ray is able to get the cost down quickly I don't hold out much hope for HD-DVD. Any prediction is just speculation at this point, but I'm going to place my bets with blue-ray, but you wont see me going out to spend $800+ on a player. I'd say the outcome of this is going to be determined mostly by sony's ability/inability to produce low cost players in a timely manner.

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DVD format wars
Mar 8, 2006 3:57AM PST

As an early adopter of video tape recording equipment, I purchase at considerable expense a TV console by Sony
with Betamax built-in.Very successful taping of many TV productions. After too short a time the Beta/VHS wars accelerated and, to my dismay, the inferior VHS format won out! I have no intention of falling into that trap again, especially since my current DVD recording equipment works well enough.

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Betamax
Mar 8, 2006 4:21AM PST

I don't want to end up like I did when I bought a Betamax VCR and VHS won the war. I can live without HD DVDs for a long while.
Osoman

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Would only consider a machine that would handle both formats
Mar 8, 2006 4:48AM PST

I would only consider a machine that would handle all video and audio formats at this time. I simply am running out of room for more boxes and I don't even know how many remotes I have. My next purchace would have to simplify my setup, not just give me one more capibility.

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Storrage junkie
Mar 8, 2006 5:01AM PST

I admit that Sony's model is much cheaper, but I my self am a biggie on HUGE storrage space. I have heard that the Blue disks will hold upwords of 100GB. I'm sceptical of this, as my HDD doesnt even hold that much, but it would be nice to have a portable storrage device that can double as a dvd. Now, I probably will not buy a next-gen DVD PLAYER, but i will defenetly buy a next-gen DVD-RW drive for my comp.

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DRM
Mar 8, 2006 5:26AM PST

After Sony's Rootkit Fiasco, ...Won't trust 'em...
Posted by btljooz (See profile) - March 8, 2006 1:07 PM PST
Boycott not ONLY Sony, but ALSO their Subsidiaries AND ANY OTHER company that uses ANY type of DRM: software OR hardware alike!!!

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/CY2jp1KR4m82Ms/Rooting-Out-Spyware-Sonys-Lesson.xhtml

Sony?s other ?Labels? are listed here:

http://www.sonymusic.com/labels/index.html

AND

http://www.sonybmg.com/labels.html

Other intriguing articles:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/30/sony_drm_spitzer/

http://www.boycottsony.us

THIS is only MY example of why I will NEVER trust Sony, et al again and believe a total boycott of Sony, et al should promptly ensue:

I bought "Live in San Fan Francisco" by Joe Satriani...an EPIC DVD. (EPIC is on Sony?s Label List and Joe Satriani is on Sony's Artist List.) I tried to copy ONLY the AUDIO part of "Bass Solo" by Stewart Hamm on Disc 2 of the two disc set so I could play it in my car CD player. After that my computer would NOT play THAT track at ALL!!!!! And the Bass Solo didn?t even copy, either. I did this over THREE YEARS ago!!! Ever since then I've had BIG problems with THAT computer. It FRIED the hard drive which was, at the time, MERELY a few months old!!!

A friend of mine has their own storebought copy of Live in San Fancisco and has played on their computer. They don't use their computer nearly as much as I do so it has taken a lot longer for it to be affected. But now it has all but shut down completely and needs to be reformatted.

Suspicious??? ?NOW that Six Year Old DRM and it?s problems has come to light?... You BET it IS!!!!! Why should an innocent person, such as me, who has bought and PAID for a CD or DVD be treated like this??? Do you think for one minute that Epic would fork out the $175 it took to fix my computer? OR pay for MY time and my friend's time and trouble in having to get my help in going through 'rebuilding' through reformatting their computer???

H311 NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I support a Boycott of ALL Sony products as well as Boycotting ALL other Companies that use DRM....either digital DRM OR Hardware DRM!!!!!!!!! The ONLY way to put a stop to this deliberate $tupidity on the part of Big Bu$ine$$ is to hit them where it hurts MO$T...in their bank account$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The good news is: ?EFF Files Class Action Suit Against Sony-BMG? http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=1003

World Intellectual Property Organization = ROOT of World Wide DRM EVIL!!!

http://www.wipo.int/portal/index.html.en

...Part of "The New World Order"

Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) In USA

http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf 'DMCA'

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/5922440

Felten and Halderman on DRM: III Lessons for the future - http://p2pnet.net/story/7777

IF any of the links don't work try copying and pasting them.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/27/dmca_takedown_regs_abused

http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=2395

http://www.openrightsgroup.org/orgwiki/index.php/Fair_but_Wrong

http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=939

READ this one: http://p2pnet.net/story/7602

Us 'little guys' can only BOYCOTT all members of THESE organizations in the mean time:

The RIAA:

http://www.riaa.com/about/members/default.asp

Cruise that site thoroughly and find out what the RIAA REALLY are about!!! Along with their member list(s), pay close attention to the physical address given on the page where 'you' can ''Join the RIAA''.

NOTE: http://p2pnet.net/story/7857 <RIAA uses 'verbal shell game' in court

Sloppy RIAA 'investigation' attacked: http://p2pnet.net/story/7850

The MPAA/MPA:

http://www.mpaa.org

Do the same with the MPAA/MPA site as you did with the RIAA site.

EDUCATION/KNOWLEDGE is power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THEN go and actually join the EFF:

http://www.eff.org/

to help fight the RIAA.

These sites will also be of interest to those who want the RIAA, and those like them, brought down:

http://www.anti-dmca.org/

http://FreeCulture.org

http://www.ricoact.com/

http://sys-con.com/read/175938.htm

http://p2pnet.net/story/7802

http://p2pnet.net/story/7780

http://p2pnet.net/story/6489

http://news.zdnet.com/2036-2_22-6035707.html

RIAA RICO case hearing February 27 - http://p2pnet.net/story/7767

About Patti Santangelo, the working mom of five kids being targeted by the RIAA:

http://p2pnet.net/story/8083

How to HELP her:

Join the p2net 'community' and donate to her cause. FIRST the RIAA tries ripping her off then her ORIGINAL 'lawyer' does, leaving her destitute and still fighting ALONE until her present lawyer picked up the ball for her. She's but one of over EIGHTEEN THOUSAND targeted by the RIAA...including MINORS! But SHE is the ONLY one so far to stand up to them!!!

If you can't contribute there then pass all this info along to all you can any way you can. Thanks @;}-

Brittany Chan, a 14 year old targeted by RIAA:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=slv2-&ei=UTF-8&p=Britanny%20Chan

Another RIAA victim says, "NO!"

http://p2pnet.net/story/7671

And yet OTHERS:

http://p2pnet.net/story/7742

http://p2pnet.net/story/7752

http://p2pnet.net/story/7742

http://p2pnet.net/story/8054

Now, THESE are just plain waaaay toooo 'INTERESTING'!!!!!:::

Hollywood Broadway bust With help from the NYPD - http://p2pnet.net/story/7768

Sony BMG guilty in copyright case Lil' Flip's Undaground Legend - http://p2pnet.net/story/7773

http://www.sonybmg.com/labels.html

DRM in other countries:

http://www.securityfocus.com/news/11369

http://p2pnet.net/story/7758

http://p2pnet.net/story/7763

http://dooooooom.blogspot.com/2006/01/drm-go-go.html

P.S.: p2pnet recently changed servers. IF you have problems getting to their site that could be one reason. Another reason is that your network could be "locked out" of their site somehow so keep trying or try from another computer/network if you are TRULY interested in their articles. Their MAIN URL is:

http://p2pnet.net/index.php

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Format makes no difference when DRM is attached
Mar 8, 2006 5:32AM PST

nuff said here.

If you don't know what DRM is then READ my previous post.... AND Google ' XCP ' Wink

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Who cares? I wait till the market decides.
Mar 8, 2006 5:32AM PST

We've all been through this before and there are several well known examples of new and better technology, failing to find a foothold in the market place.

Aside from the 'early adoptors', those willing to pay for the latest gadget, most of us simply want and need technological appliances that fill a real need, work when we want or need them to, at a price we can afford.

Right now my Compact Tape, VHS, DVD and DAD players, 80's era high-end stereo, wide screen TV and cell phone/camera are working fine. Therefore, I won't be adding any more electronics to the stack of players, jumble of wires and back-pack full of portables I already have untill prices become reasonable and media is readily available.

As you can tell, I am not a marketing mans 'dream buyer'. So far very little of this stuff, despite the advertising, has actually made my life better and and we can all find perfectly good but useless electronics at garage sales and swap meets all the time.

I'm not stupid and I won't fall for the hype again. You shouldnt either.

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hd format war
Mar 8, 2006 6:09AM PST

i'm pulling for the toshiba hd-dvd format because of its backwards compatibility, the fact that it will hold a hd movie on one side and a regular dvd movie on the other side. not to mention that the discs should be cheaper than blu-ray. so i get to keep my extensive current collection and save money over the blu-ray for the discs. as for storage, both disc WILL hold a full length hd movie, so, so what if blu-ray has more storage! neither format has any video/audio features that are truly superior to the other. i will wait to see who comes out ahead before buying ( i too remember vhs vs beta ) but will continue to pull for the hd-dvd format.

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new toys?
Mar 8, 2006 7:58AM PST

This technology is just another money maker toy until the true product of mass storage gets here -- Holographic crystal storage. Wake me up when we get there!

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what do the movie moguls think?
Mar 8, 2006 9:54AM PST

To me it is up in the air, but I believe the one that has the most movie backing will win.

You might think that means BLU_RAY because of Sony's presence in the movie biz, but not necessarily. Other studio's might not want DVD's that have 1080p quality in one simple disc. It would just make one more reason not to go to the theater.

With todays hugh screens and earth shattering sound systems, there isn't that much difference between the home and theater ''experience''. Today the major difference is the lack of resolution when expanded to Hugh. With 1080p the problem is minimized.

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A universal player
Mar 8, 2006 1:09PM PST

A soon as a universal player which would play both HD_DVD and Blue Ray comes out, that will be the machine that I will purchase. I thought I read somewhere an article that Samsung was developing such player.

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''DVD HD'' and ''BLU RAY'' will follow ''DVD+R DL''
Mar 8, 2006 5:52PM PST

I've owned a laptop with DVD+R DL for almost 2 years and never purchased a blank DVD+R DL. I still have stacks of blank DVD+R, DVD+RW and DVD-Rs laying around waiting to be used, so why rush into a new format?

When I look for blank DVD+R DL in the stores, it is quite a challenge to locate any DVD+R DL blanks in a store.

Not sure that I want to get into the DVD+R DL format, if its on its way out from lack of consumer interest. There are a lot of consumers like me, that will hold-out until they NEED to purchase a new DVD format.

I was one of those stuck with a Sony Betamax, when everyone else warned me to not get involved with Sony Betamax. I even convinced friends to purchase a Sony Betamax and NOT a VHS VCR. [Stick my head in the dirt] Even though they were hesitant about the choice. Sony will not get me again. I'll hold out.

Will good marketing convince the public to get out there and purchase a new format? When the marketeers convince consumers that the new format is HERE TO STAY, then we'll start taking the new DVD formats more seriously.

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THE BEST ANYTHING RARELY WINS -WHY DO WE STILL HAVE VHS?
Mar 8, 2006 7:27PM PST

YES I WAS ONE OF THOSE SUCKERS WHO BOUGHT THE BEST FORMAT OF THE DAY WHICH WAS BETA. IT WAS HALF THE SIZE AND BETTER PICTURE ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO VHS. BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT THE VHS WON COMPLETELY. ITS CRAZY AND THE SAME WILL HAPPEN OVER AND OVER SINCE IT REALLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT TECH IS BETTER. CHECK YOUR HISTORY BOOKS IF YOU BOTHER. AND SO THE HIGH? TECH HYPE CONTINUES UNABATED AND DISHONEST AS EVER...
DONT BUY ANYTHING UNTILL THE VERY LAST MOMENT-AT LEAST THE HYPE WILL COST YOU LESS.. I AM AN ELECTRICAL ENGINEER-COMPUTER SYSTEMS PROGRAMMER. AND RIPPED OF CONSUMER. HOW ABOUT YOU?

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The thing with standards is there are so many to choose from
Mar 8, 2006 10:08PM PST

In actuality I'm sick of all the crap with standards.
Why can't everyone get together and make a united decision and present ONE standard that's best and works for everyone.
It's typical of the way businesses work. "Let's make something that's going to confuse the public and muddy the waters so we can create mass confusion for everyone."
I like the BluRay of the two. HD-DVD is a band-aid solution. It's not designed to last longer than ten years. (read the articles) and BluRay is designed for a longer lifetime.
If HD-DVD wins (for now) we'll end up replacing our equipment in another 10 years when something to replace it comes along and there's another battle like this one.
Forget the quick and easy approach. Wait for the better format.

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Lets go with maximum development potential.
Mar 9, 2006 1:04AM PST

Blu-ray is more powerfull and one thing that has been essential to progress is capacity. As for price who cares if its more expensive initially, how long does it take for mass production to knock that factor into touch.
In terms of investment I know I'll be prepared to spend what I consider a small excess to have a superior package, I mean really why would anyone want to settle for secondary technology .

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If Blu ray wins what will Sony do?
Mar 9, 2006 1:40AM PST

I am going to wait simply because of the competition. VHS vs. Beta, DVD vs DivX, etc.
I am leary of the blu ray technology because of Sony. They have already proved that they aren't to be trusted when it comes to digital media. What can we expect from Sony if blu ray wins? Very open-ended question...

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Toshiba DVD vs. Sony DVD formats!
Mar 9, 2006 1:53AM PST

It will not be up to the average consumer to make the "tech." choice. The stockholders and large movie inventories owned by a handfull will establish, without doubt, which format will prevail. History will repeat itself and some consumers will have made the correct/wrong choice should they invest too early in the players of such DVD discs. Mark my words; this will happen without our input as usual. James (Canada).

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That format where is more space
Mar 9, 2006 2:46AM PST

Is my choice... for data use, but how that works with movies is big question... if they both works fine for data and movies then the answer is pretty mutch harder to say. but i think that cheaper version win even the features is other format lots better (remember vhs - beta war)

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Cost?
Mar 9, 2006 9:55AM PST

Media will probably cost to much for most of us to use until the price drops. I have a Double Layer DVD RW but I've never bought any double layer DVD's.

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Blu-ray all the way????????
Mar 9, 2006 7:18PM PST

However, Sony is too prideful, short sighted, stupid... to recognize installed base is how you win. Windows vs OS-2 and VHS and others... are perfect proven examples. SONY WILL MISS IT and price themselves out of the competion, also like Mac. And... we lose!!!! Sucks when manufactures, can't see the forest for the, you know.

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HD all the way
Mar 10, 2006 6:07AM PST

I have seen the toshiba hd dvd. It was by far better than anything else i have seen. and it can upconvert your old dvds and play them back as well. and its lower price than the sony.... and it will be out in 1 month. hmmmm such a hard choice... NOT! HD DVD all the way

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HD-DVD More cost effective
Mar 10, 2006 7:04AM PST

First of all I must clarify that I'm an Xbox 360 owner/fan, but think I can give a fair, unbiased assesment. Technologically, Blu ray is obviously more advanced, being that it supports 1080p. On the other hand, price to pixel ratio, 1080p would have to be three times better(which it isn't) than 1080i to justify the Blu Ray's $1500 (excluding Sony's PS3) price tag. This is all just a business strategy by Sony to gain control of the game/film DVD market. That being said, HD-DVD stands a good chance to win against Blu Ray. Since most consumers are still scratching the HD surface, the majority of people won't care about 1080i/1080p, they just want affordable HD, which is why they might migrate to HD-DVD. The main concern for for both types is the standard DVD, it still has alot of life left, and will hold a greater market share than either of the former for at least a few years. As for me and my Liquid Crystal Sharp, we'll take them both, we can't lose that way. Happy, Philip Shaw

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The one that is more open
Mar 10, 2006 7:57PM PST

I am for a format that uses technologies and audio/video formats and standards that are more open and portable and royality free. Because at the end it only matters what you can and can't do with the content that is on the disk. And if one format is more open you have more options to do what you wan't and with tools you wan't to use. Open formats and standards give you more freedom to use the content in the way you wan't.