Thank you for being a valued part of the CNET community. As of December 1, 2020, the forums are in read-only format. In early 2021, CNET Forums will no longer be available. We are grateful for the participation and advice you have provided to one another over the years.

Thanks,

CNET Support

General discussion

What's your take on the next-generation DVD format wars?

Mar 7, 2006 7:37AM PST

What's your take on the next-generation DVD format wars?

Blu-ray all the way (tell us why)
HD-DVD, that's for me! (tell us why)
Too early to tell; I'm waiting it out (tell us why)
Not interested (why not?)
What the heck are you talking about?

Discussion is locked

- Collapse -
Wait for the Broadcom BCM7411D !
Mar 7, 2006 9:36AM PST

Supposedly Broadcom unveiled a chip set that will allow consumer DVD players to view both formats in one player.
Good move Broadcom!
End this Betamax debacle before it evem get rolling.

- Collapse -
Plus or Minus
Mar 7, 2006 11:24AM PST

Kinda like the DVD-R and DVD+R that didn't really happen.

- Collapse -
I thought that wasn't possible
Mar 8, 2006 12:01AM PST

This may not be the case anymore, but as of late last year both formats has written into their licensing contracts that no manufacturer could combine both formats in a player. Samsung had intentions of doing exactly that, but realized pretty quickly they couldn't... not because of any technical problems but because neither side would license the technology to do so.

- Collapse -
New chip for Bluray and HDTV
Mar 8, 2006 2:45AM PST

Its a disadvantage in my opinion...for Toshiba and HD DVD. Since blue lasers (red laser can't) can read all formats and blu ray is already able to read std dvd. HD DVD is basically the same technology std DVD so they may be able to push the licensing issue on technological merit alone...(remmember all companies already use red laser technology). And if it comes before a court of its peers. juries tend to side with the consumer not the mega billion dollar company.

- Collapse -
New chip for Bluray and HDTV
Mar 13, 2006 10:51PM PST

I've read that only HD-DVD is backwards compatible with std dvd & that the Blu-ray laser couldn't read a std dvd?

- Collapse -
HighDev DVD "wars"?
Mar 7, 2006 9:46AM PST

Not so fast, or rather, not so big. There doesn't seem to be enough media content in the higher resolutions to get me excited about this one. Maybe when the content providers catch up to our desires to view higher resolution will I worry about what the format is. Until then, I'll rent scratchy DVD's from mail order and ignnore the Special Features on the second disk.

Most video quality is average, so the higher density would only provide questionable special features space for now.

Call me in two years when I care.

- Collapse -
Have to disagree on one technicallity
Mar 7, 2006 1:38PM PST

You wrote:
> Most video quality is average, so the higher density
> would only provide questionable special features
> space for now.

First, I am in FULL agreement that most video quality these days is only average. However I strongly DISAGREE with your conclusion that higher density would only result in adding more special features.

Fact of the matter is that DVD video quality is poor for the same reason that many MP3's don't sound as good as the original CD.

Please forgive a short technical detour. When a film is very first produced, it's actual resolution is equivelant (sp?) to many megabytes per frame. Multiply that by 24 to 30 frames per second, times the number of seconds in the whole movie, and you get a value that is 10's, even 100's of gigs worth of video data.

The majority of videos stored on DVD are in one or another of the 'lossy' compression formats. Current video/audio compression technology has its roots back in the 'old' days when we were using 24k modems, and 80 Megabytes was a LOT of space. So, to get the absolute maximum compession possible, these programs literally 'threw out' large parts of the information. In theory, the parts that got thrown out were parts that the human ear/eye would never notice. I haven't kept up with the actual compression formats used in the past few years, but their basic function is still the same as those old days.

When movies get pressed to DVD, the amount of data lost is quite high. I'm certain someone will correct me on this, but I think the number is something like 66-75% of the original video data is lost in the current compression formats. And I don't care how good a program is at decoding the data, when you lose that much of the original, you WILL suffer a very noticeable loss in quality. Hence MP3's that are recorded at too low a bit rate sound tinny, and DVD's can look little better than video tape.

SO, my point is that when there is more available space on a disk, then compression programs will not need to throw out so much of the video information. And the more original data that is kept, then the better the quality of the picture on your screen. So, while there will probably still be a second disk thats just filled with oodles of special features, it should also be true that the first disk will be filled with more video data, and thus (in theory) have vastly superior video quality than the 'only average' we see on current DVD's.

Hope this helps clarify.

Ima Sloetyper

- Collapse -
High Resolution vs. screen size
Mar 7, 2006 8:53PM PST

A 1080P @ 60 fps would probably look only marginally better (if preceivable at all) than a 720p @ 30 fps on my Sony 60". It would be different if we were blowing it up to a 120" screen or more. But who does that? Who has a room that large to make a screen that size viable? NOT many people.

Movie makers NEED the 100's of Meg of video to get high resolution on a Theatrical screen. But the typical 60" wide screen a consumer would have does NOT require that much resolution to look great. Unless of course you are viewing it with a magnifing glass.

- Collapse -
Blu-Ray & Playstation 3
Mar 7, 2006 9:46AM PST

Because PS3 will blow the XBox360 out of the water in terms of graphics and game selection, and because PS3 uses Blu-Ray technology, it should be obvious that Blu-Ray Disc will win over the battle for next generation media discs. Price matters of course, but like all things, prices will come down as they are mass produced by China.

- Collapse -
BluRay will rule
Mar 7, 2006 10:41AM PST

PS3 supports BluRay and thats it end of discussion.

- Collapse -
Re: Blu-Ray & Playstation 3
Mar 8, 2006 8:20AM PST

When the first DVD format wars occurred, it was the Playstation 2 which really settled it. The same also looks set with the Playstation 3 doing the same. Don't forget, the reason that this war is happening now is that more space is required to fit higher quality movies and more data for computers. HD-DVD is just a stop gap. The consumer will definitely want more. It would be like buying one car with lower specs and another model fully optioned to maintain the status quo.

The Xbox 360 thus far, appears to be a rushed job. It has already been found to have teething problems and there has been a shortage of production models available. On paper, the Playstation 3 appears the more superior model. I am sure that Sony Executives will revamp it even more once they disect the Xbox 360. By the time it comes out, they will also have a good number of games and movies ready for it to impress the public with their marketing. Sony is not a company to do things by half measures. If you want to set an industry standard, you have to take the time to do it properly. Microsoft appears to have rushed its effort to make the Christmas sales. It is unfortunate, as the machine itself is not that bad. History, however, has seen that Bill Gates strength has always been on the sale of software - not hardware. His aquisitions of software houses over the years, will see him make even more profits again. I do hope that the Xbox will compete in its own right, at any rate, as competition is what has given consumers better products and innovations.

- Collapse -
Blu-Ray & Playstation 3
Mar 13, 2006 11:03PM PST

Graphically the 2 systems are going to be about the same, from the spec's that have been relaesed there's no reason to expect a noticeable difference in the quality of the graphics between the 2 systems. I didn't buy a 360 for other reasons.

- Collapse -
Problem #1,000,024
Mar 7, 2006 9:48AM PST

The local property tax rate is chasing the "housing as investment" craze, threatening to send long time residents into the streets as the "genteel homeless." The TV folk are trying to push Digital in spite of the 4 figure prices of these not-quite-next-generation "brag panels" as analog TV shuts down. Certain national politicians see nothing wrong with upping the red ink lake that the economy is drowning in. Golden parachute CEOs continue to find new ways to outsource jobs and toss former workers into the street. H5N1 is coming, such that the next generation of kids will ask "what's fried chicken?" Glaciers and bodies of ice are melting at accelerated rates, making places like Bangladesh or certain Pacific islands the next "lost city of Atlantis." The Middle East: No honor, no exit, no security. So...that makes the Great High Density DVD Format Wars a subatomic concern.

- Collapse -
(NT) (NT) I fully agree but there are other forums for this
Mar 7, 2006 11:03PM PST
- Collapse -
Problem
Mar 9, 2006 9:51AM PST

WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

- Collapse -
I don't think either format will be a big hit...
Mar 7, 2006 9:49AM PST

I personally don't think either blu-ray or hd-dvd will take to the mass-market, but rather it will be mostly adopted by the specialty or elite home theatre market.

This is mainly because from vhs tapes to dvd there was an entirely new format from these black ugly boxes to a cd format, so there was a visible and tangible difference to the consumer. As well, dvds offered more material on these discs and a higher screen resolution.

If one looks at the current television market most people are still running on old style crt tubes so they won't even be at an advantage using these new formats (because they are not HDTV sets). As well, not many people I believe are interested in special features offered on many discs, most people are probably like me they watch the movie and then put it on their shelves because all the bonus material is the same. How many times can you watch a person develop a CG character as a special feature really? So this extra room offered by these new disc formats is relatively pointless.

I really think most consumers will be sticking with the DVD format for a while and HD-DVD and Blu ray may end up in the same dustbin as Laserdisc and Betamax, as fleeting moment in electronic history.

- Collapse -
agree completely
Mar 7, 2006 10:38AM PST

The previous format wars involved a lot more than improved picture or audio quality. There were substantial reasons to move up: tape over nothing, CD over vinyl, DVD over tape, etc. All involved better, more convenient, longer lasting, easier to use, etc. The step up from existing DVDs when played thru a progressive scan upsampling HDMI output DVD player to the blu-ray/hd-dvd level is nice but not compelling to the mass market. They will follow the path of the laser disk.

- Collapse -
Disargree mostly
Mar 7, 2006 1:38PM PST

The problem with the new technology is that no one has really experienced it yet. Even those with a really good quality HDTV, haven't seen the capabilites of such a TV. The reason is simple, there is no way of getting a really spiffo 1080p image up on the screen. Most major networks might broadcast a 1080p about once a month. Simply because none of the shows on tv today aren't recorded in 1080p. Most networks only broadcast at 720p or lower, even on HD channels.
When you see that occasional movie that is encoded in 1080p and not upconverted, you will be amazed at the quality of the picture. Even though this may not reach the mass market, there is a large group of people who will see this quality and want to be able to have it at home. It is unlikely we will see the demise of DVD's anytime soon. HD discs will be an alternative for those who have the technology.
Where HDTV's are sold, there is no current technology to get a full HD image up on screen, when the technology is readily available, you will be amazed.

- Collapse -
check your facts
Sep 27, 2006 5:17AM PDT

the ONLY way to watch 1080p on an HDTV would be from your computer or from a highcapacity DVD. There are no broadcasts over the air in 1080p there is not enough bandwidth in a broadcast to transmit a 1080p signal. may be a few months late but uninformed people bother me

- Collapse -
I Agree but don't even think of messing with laserdisc
Mar 7, 2006 8:50PM PST

I also agree that the mass market will not accept Blu-Ray or HDDVD as quickly as DVD. I think the move to HD will not happen until 2007 or 2008 when the new HD rqmts. will force consumers to change their current sets. However, by then, I expect to be able to have HD services from the internet via the Microsoft MCE pcs. The conversion will also be delayed until a quantity of superior 1080p content movies become available. By superior, they would need to be significantly better than current DVD displays of today, which would likely be the newer movie releases of the forseeable future. The studios would also "dry up" as much existing DVDs as possible as the real reason behind the new standards is encryption and illegal copies and greed.

On another note, the laserdisc is a dinosaur, by today's standards. But if it wasn't for the laserdisc, the switch to DVD would have been delayed. The laserdisc was a premium in it's day and some movies, namely Star Wars trilogy, fetched a hefty price of $300 and would wow my friends who only had the VHS tapes to look at. They were popular in that they were the first to provided superior video, AC3 standard for sound and the "extras" that most dvds consider standard today. I believe the move to DVD was a result of the studios realizing the willingness of consumers to pay a premium price for the improved picture (widescreen) and sound (especially DD and DTS). In turn, the studios looked for a less expensive manufacturing and distribution process for their movies, ala the DVD. Finally, there are still titles out there in laserdisc that are not found in DVD. Look for Amazing Stories for one or a DTS version of Independence Day. Only on laserdisc.

- Collapse -
blu-ray or hd-dvd
Mar 7, 2006 11:16AM PST

I completely agree. Not worth what you will get. Current DVD format is fine for anything that I want to watch.

- Collapse -
me too
Mar 7, 2006 1:43PM PST

9 out of 10 reading these articles don't own a TV that could take advandage of HD and probably won't for the next few years. Even if you did, you are probably using RCA jacks between your DVD player and TV. If your DVD player has S-VHS or component(RGB) jacks, this is what you should be using, you won't believe the difference. On the other hand, 540 progressive scan has 1080i beat hands down. Unless you are looking for more storage on 1 disk then blu-ray would win, but hang on to your wallet because of the price of a blank disk. For me, I will keep on using what I got, plain ol 4.7 single layered disk, works for me. The next format is already on the table as soon as Sony and Phillips and the others can soak you out of your hard earned money, the 1 that is the size of a half dollar and you can put 100+ geg on so save your money and wait.

- Collapse -
DVD and VHS
Mar 7, 2006 2:00PM PST

That's what u would have said if u had vhs and would have yet to make the change to DVD...
But now you know the difference..

- Collapse -
Use Std. Def. with HDMI
Mar 7, 2006 2:06PM PST

For those of you who want to "wait it out" and probably already own a very big collection of standard definition DVD'S you could use a player with HDMI output and if your TV is equipted with either DVI input "need to adapt" or HDMI this will "upconvert" the line of resolution to either 720p or 1080i depending on the native resolution of your TV!WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?????

- Collapse -
Use Std. Def. with HDMI?
Mar 13, 2006 11:20PM PST

Or you could just use standard component cables with most hdtv's?
What's missing here is that you still don't have a hd picture unless you have a hd source, cables lol just aren't going to do it. All fixed pixel displays (plasma, lcd, dlp, etc.) upconvert every signal to it's native resolution, it all depends on the strength or quality of the signal as to how good it looks on your screen (that were the cables come in to play).

- Collapse -
In Search of One-Minute Megatrends
Mar 7, 2006 12:07PM PST

My subject title is an amalgam of the popular business books of the '80s and '90s. Any new theory to come along and make it onto the NY Times Bestseller list was adopted by well-intentioned managers trying to act trendy.

And so it will be with HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Each will have its early adopters who will write passionate commentary on why their respective choice is best.
But the original poster hit the major point - HDTV isn't exactly flying off the store shelves. The government made deals with the broadcasters for more free spectrum (they never paid for the first round of analog TV spectrum)with a drop-dead deadline for moving off the analog. Honest. They mean it. Seriously. Someday.

With the marketplace slow to adopt HDTV, and the government itself a hotbed of inertia, why would the unwashed masses drop their now-inexpensive DVD players and head off into uncharted (video) lands?

As for me, I still get miffed when I look at that old quadrophonic receiver I bought in 1974.

- Collapse -
I agree!
Mar 7, 2006 8:58PM PST

These high density disks will probably only be used for data backup, if that. The players would have to be heavily subsidized to meet the acceptable cost range.

- Collapse -
Yep neither is a great choice
Mar 7, 2006 10:23PM PST

I agree both of these choices are irrelevent to those not having a HDTV. In addition older format DVD's will play in both, so why do anything different?

- Collapse -
Both formats offer plusses and minuses...
Mar 7, 2006 9:58AM PST

...so I'll be on the sidelines for now, waiting to see which camp offers more software to actually watch.

Hopefully some smart mfr. will go ahead and make an ultimate universal player not only playing both HD-DVDs and Blu-Ray DVDs, but also SACD and DVD-Audio too. That mfr. will be guaranteed to get my money...

I believe there will be a big difference, if the movies are truly in HD format. Just switching from a regular DVD on my DCDi/progressive scan player to true HDTV on comcast is a noticeable difference. If I can get my movies with the same razor-sharp detail, I'll be a very happy consumer.

Doomer_marine - remember not all CRTs are analog. I have a 34" Sony widescreen that has an amazing HD picture. CRTs are still the best picture quality currently available, though the sure take up more space than plasmas and LCDs. The price we all pay...

- Collapse -
Fully aware CRTs are available in HDTV...Just to clarify...
Mar 7, 2006 11:46AM PST

Just to respond I'm aware that there are HDTVs available in CRT. Not many, but they are out there.

What I was saying was the majority of people do not own an HDTV or otherwise(LCD, Plasma, DLP, etc). They mostly own the old analog CRT tvs and won't see any additional benefit to these new formats.