What's Your Opinion. Home theater Systems

ok ok ok.....I really can't decide. I guess what I really need to know, since I have no prior experience with HDMI,......IS HDMI WORTH IT? I currently do not have a TV with an hdmi input but I am planning on getting one soon.

I REALLY want the speaker setup from the S990THX package paired with the 804 receiver with hdmi. Best of both worlds. But the components of the THX system are not sold separately, unfortunately.

SO...

Should I go with the better acoustic suspension speakers and get the HT-S990THX system

OR...

Should I go with the HDMI setup, and the bass reflex speakers and get the HT-S907 system.

Price doesn?t matter since these two systems only differ by 100 dollars

PLEASE HELP. It is greatly appreciated

AFFORD EVEN IF that means a 5.1 system. Don't be cheap with speakers!!!

river.

...What is your opinion on the 990THX speaker setup and the s907 speaker setup? Am I going "Cheap" by considering these speakers? Should I step it up?

FOLLOW your EARS, not your eyes (styling,) or your wallet (money.)

Truth is while both systems are adequate, I feel you'd do better with a "stepped-up" configuration.

While ONKYO A/V receivers are some of my faves, their speaker line is somewhat lacking.

I prefer my speakers from companies that only make speakers. KLIPSCH, POLK, ENERGY, BOSTON ACOUSTICS, MIRAGE,and etc...ect.

The whole point being, don't be cheap with speakers.


Good shopping, river.

I have a 5.1 set of Infinity speakers and they perform very well. They offer packages low as $250 up to $5000 and I would recommend them.

I don't have tons of cash to spend on a speaker set up. So I will have to be somewhat "cheap" with my speakers. I will eventually replace my system with up to date, great, more expensive "non-cheap" system....when I'm older and have to disposable income to do so. But for now I'm upgrading my system from a 5.1 system that is starting to sound blah. So right now its going to be the better acoustic suspension speakers and no HDMI with the S990THX system or the bass reflex speakers with the HDMI setup of the S907 system.

So my first question is....is HDMI worth it or should I sacrifice HDMI for the bigger speakers.

Second, which one of the two systems above is better?
Basically, which system should I be bringing home tomorrow?...lol

Sorry to say I advise you to postpone awhile until you can scrape together a bit more money because you're going to want both HDMI so you don't have to replace for that later &, if you read here regularly, you'd know we heartily recommend the best possible speakers to lead to long term satisfaction.

Good speakers a cut above just "as included" ones are worth it. The best use of that portion of your budget. Hey, pay attention to references here & what you'll find by spending some time looking at other threads here. Onkyo isn't noted for its speakers. There are lots of respectable speakers out there.

Yeah, I know I'm coming on like advise from your father that you don't want to hear. But, hey, I've been pursuing good sound for 45 years.

This is a ture statment!!!!! I have JBL speakers that are all most 40 years old and will still blow your socks off!

The speakers ARE THE MOST IMPROTANT PART OF THE SOUND!!!!
You budget seems to be about $900, at lest $600 for speakers! After you pick out your speakers then select an AV reciver in the $300 price range.

To River's list I would add JBL and Inifity. John

My budget is actually somewhere around $1,200-$1,300 for a reciever plus speakers and a DVD player. I would prefer to spend $900 compared to $1,300 but I can go higher but not 4 or 5 grand. Right now the S907 package including 7.1 speakers, reciever, and DVD player all with HDMI for $900 seems like a great deal right now.

Right now I am considering putting together my own system but I would still like to know what system is better, which would you buy?.....the S990THX or S907 Package?

"The proof of the pudding is in the eating"
This applies to speakers, the proof of the speaker is in the listing!!!
I would NEVER buy a speaker system without hearing it FIRST!!!
GO to a store and listen to speaker systems in your price range, take some of your CDs and spend a couple of hours just listining!! Then after you pick out you spakers get an Onkyo AV reciver and a DVD player. John

Haha, I'm not answering your question, but I will leave my 2 cents. Do you really need HDMI switching? I just send my HDMI's directly to the TV. Admittedly, Onkyo speakers are not considered the greatest ever, but the company did start out making speaker components unlike most other HTIB manufacturers. Hence, their speakers are probably the best as far as HTIB's are concerned. The THX thing is a way for George to make more money. Also, I believe one is much better off keeping the DVD player as a separate component. It will break before your receiver, and will be outdated before your receiver. (Does the Onkyo upconvert the DVD?) I have the HTS-790 ($430). Add an Oppo or Denon upconverting DVD ($150 or less). Ive got the DVD-1730. Shoot, upgrade your sub for $250 to an Infinity PS-10, or $500 for Hsu/Outlaw/SVS/etc and sell your Onkyo sub off as brand new. (This would all run up to...$830?) Though, the THX system is probably very nice, even the reviewers here at CNET think the hts-790 is the much better value. Save the extra $$ for a future receiver that can handle bit-to-bit/lossless Dolby TrueHD down the road. Screw the THX. Just an option. Anyways, I do admit investing in speakers is probaly the best idea. I am just too value oriented to pass on the HTIB. Mine does sound as good as friends' systems that were 3x more expensive. Good Luck and Cheers!

What is wrong with you guys? HDMI will look and sound great for the life of the A/V switcher. Doesn't this system come with tone control of any kind?!!! Onkyo's speakers cannot be as bad as say Sony.

I am an ex Audio Engineer turned Audio consultant. Go for the highest quality switching curcuitry you can now and tone control the hell out of it if you have to!

The other thing that I haven't seen mentioned is search for you chosen A/V switcher, (stand alone), on the Inet then with the balance buy the best speakers you can afford.

Shesh! What ever happened to thinking out of the box!

They tend to be $150~300+ for a decent one. If feel that most people would be better off putting that money into a better AV Receiver. An external switcher also complicates the wiring. Not to much of a problem for an engineer, but could be changeling for may home users.
HDMI is suppose to make it easer for the consumer, well maybe next year it will. John

Alright, I've put off buying system until I price a system that piece together myself. I stopped by circuit city and best buy today and was not impressed by anything at best buy but the Polk Audio speakers at circuit city looked great. I haven't really gotten time to listen to some speakers. I also looked like Ciruit City had a better selection and will be heading back. I'm waitingfor the Fry's to open up down the street. For now, does anyone have any suggestions on brands, right now I'm liking the look of polk and I've heard good things. Also, if a speaker says 130 watt and a reciever puts out 100 watt per channel....does that mean that the speaker is not compatible with the reciever. I've never setup my own system before. Can someone explain what will work with what and what I should be looking for?

Thanks for everything. BTW.....I've now raised my budget for speakers alone to $1,000ish. but would rather not spend that much but you guys might have just convinced me.

There is another thread here somewhere that covers the matching of surrounds, tweeters, etc. Someone mentioned buying the same brand for all the surrounds. The wattage ratings are like contrast ratings for TV's: they give you an idea, but the manufacturer chooses some number. They rate wattage at a particular frequency at a particular amperage and voltage (Receivers using amperage rather than voltage to power speakers are the ones you want). 130 watt speaker and 100 watt channel is totally fine. Choose a good brand of receiver like Onkyo/Denon/Harmon. In general, very high wattage ratings are not so important for the fronts/center/surrounds as higher frequencies need much less energy to be reproduced. Make sure the ohms/resistance of the speakers match the abilities of the receiver. If not, you could ruin your amp. I remember perusing Consumer Reports recently, and Boston Acoustics came up a whole lot. Hsu research recently came out with their first surround system (6.1) and with purchase you get a large rebate on one of their renown subs. However, by the looks of the systems you were investigating, small size is not a priority for you. Might as well get towers, and have a better blend with your sub perhaps. I'll be keeping tabs on this thread, because I myself am curious what others recommend

I'm looking at two recievers, onkyo 674 and 803, both have HDMI and 7.1. The differences are that one gives out 105 per ch and the other 95 per ch, and there is a 150 dollar difference. So do I need those extra 10 watts?

This might be a bit confusing...

The room measure 14 X 14.75 = 206.5 sf. Along the two longer sides of the room the vertical wall only goes up 52 inches high from the floor and then the ceiling begins at a tilt of 45 degrees and then tilts to a horizontal ceiling. This is the same on the two longer opposite sides of the room. I'm telling you this beacue I'm wondering if this will affect anything? One of the other two sides has a window and the other has a entry door and closet door. The TV is placed along the longer side under the tilted ceiling and the "money spot" or my chair is directly opposite the TV.

This room is not a dedicated media room, unfortunatly. It is also my bedroom but I will be moving out eventually and want to take this system to a better place and a better room.

Here is what I use it for...
60% TV programs
30% DVD
10% Music

What I want out of my system...
Strong room shaking woofer
Larger powerful speakers
Floor standing fronts
Bookshelf surrounds
7.1 setup
Matching brands for all speakers/sub

One more thing, I would prefer NOT to buy a HTIB and then sell off some components and get new ones. Just don't want to have to deal with the hassle.

Thanks

Please see the long post I just made, ''Some Thoughts'' for poster MPTarheel under his thread ''question for audiophiles.'' A lot of the information even though some duplicate stuff applies to your situation.

The angle on the walls actually is better for the sound in your room. Anything that breaks up square or rectangular dimensions and level ceilings or vertical walls helps the sound and eliminate some room modes and standing waves. Also, sometimes leaving a door to another room or closet open will improve the sound.

All the subwoofers from Outlaw Audio, SVS and HSU are the very bests subs for the money and go way down with very low distortion (they will shake your room). You can't match these subs for under $750-$1000 or much more. The larger 12'' models are nearly flat in room response down to 15-20Hz and below! The 10' and 8'' subs are good down to about 22-25 or so in room response. This is amazing performance and will shake your room with CLEAN bass.

I disagree with your statement about larger speakers. A good home theater system crosses over from the main speakers to the sub usually at about 80Hz (this is THX's recommended setting). This crossover takes all of the low bass below 80Hz or so away from the mains and transfers it to the sub. The sub has a powerful dedicated amp to produce 80Hz and on down well below 30Hz. This takes all the low bass power requirements away from the receiver and allows the receiver's amps to loaf along driving the main speakers at 80Hz and above, resulting in much cleaner sound thru the mains.

The sub is much better suited to produce this small range of sound in the 80Hz to 20Hz for example than the main speakers and does so with much lower distortion. Also the sub can be easily moved for the best placement to eliminate bass standing waves which is the achilles heel of large floor standing speakers. Usually they have to be in one spot and cannot be moved. If they have room mode problems you are stuck with boomy and muddy bass.

You will get much better, cleaner and flatter full range sound (and much cheaper...big full range speakers cost much more) with a properly placed sub and small to medium bookshelf/satellite speakers (which are flat down to the 80z or so range...when I say flat I'm referring to the normal -3dB spec). The precise sub crossover setting in the receiver (not the sub) would be set based on the particular main speakers you have and their low end -3dB point. Besides, you save a ton of money because you are not unneccessarily duplicating the lowest range of the large full standing speakers which is the 40-80Hz range or maybe down to 35Hz. The only practical advantage of the larger speakers is increased power handling and a higher sensitivity rating, neither are significant in your size room. The 80 and lower range is handled much better by the sub and I mean a good sub. Lots of so called subs even 12'' models go down flat only to about 30-35Hz.

The 5 or 7 main speakers do need to be from the same brand and ideally have the same exact tweeter and midrange if possible. However, the sub can be any brand. There is no reason except maybe for aesthetics to have the sub from the same brand. The very best subs are from companies that specialize in subs like the ones I mentioned above and other brands such as Velodyne.

I also disagree on your requirement for 7.1. This is a nice to have extra but not important especially in your size room. The extra expense for the 6th and 7th speakers could better be utilized towards the other speaker, sub or receiver. Considering your budget constraints, I would absolutely forget the 7.1 system.

You just can't get what you are describing for $900 let alone $1200-$1300, not even close. Go with a 5.1 system and small speakers with a -3dB spec down to 80-90Hz and the best sub you can afford with the HTR-5940, HTR-5950 or HTR 5960 receiver and you might come close to staying within your budget. You will have a great sounding system by putting your money exactly where it is most effective in producing the best sound.

Good Luck

RR6

I got a little confused while reading your post, but that is ok. I checked out the other post you made and found that useful. Although I would prefer to physically buy the speakers in a store rather than purchase them online. I been to Circuit City and I thought the Polk speakers looked rather nice and they weren't too bad price wise. Now I am flexible with my budget, so there is room to compromise. But, is there anything I should look out for with Polk? A reason why not to purchase? I'm not ruling out any other speakers, I'm just gathering as much information as I can.

I'm now looking for a 5.1 system, I thought that a 7.1 system would give out better sound but I guess I didn't realize you need the large room to go with it.

BTW thanks for all your help guys, I really appreciate all the information, keep it comin

I'm not familiar with any of the Polk current models. However, Polk has a reputation for very good speakers.

RR6

I auditioned some Polk speakers at Circuit City the other day and priced the speakers. Here's what I got...

Front: Monitor 50 $199 ea
Center: CS2 $299....Great sound, IMO
Rear: Monitor 30 $99 ea
12in Sub: PSW12 $349

Total: $1,250 not including reciever or DVD player

Any suggestions on a reciever???

There were larger fronts and larger rears but I wasn't sure if I needed that big. Anyone think that these speakers are good or bad????

.....futility to make any more posts to this thread, but my personality and conscience require me to make one last post (then I promise I will disapear).

I hope others will chime in and help you with recommendations on a receiver and DVD player and comment on these Polks.

It is human nature, but it makes it difficult to help when the playing field keeps changing. Now we are up to $1250 for just a 5.1 system to start with, no receiver or DVD player. A short time back it was $900 or slightly more (maybe up to $1300) for speakers, but also including the receiver and DVD player. Now it looks, depending on the receiver you buy, that your budget will approach $2000. I'm sure you would have got some different suggestions based on this significantly higher figure.

The Polk system you now are considering is pretty decent sounding in my opinion except for the sub performance. It probably has almost the same quality sound as the sound on the JBL system that I listed for $278 without considering the subs. Adding the Outlaw sub for $299 would have been approached $577. I'm sure there is no way you will realize that the Outlaw 8'' sub is actually a superior sub to the 12'' sub listed in your Polk system. The Polk sub weighs 34lbs and goes down to 33Hz at -3dB's. The Outlaw sub weighs 37lbs and goes down to 28Hz at -2dB's (about 27Hz at -3dB). $1250 versus $578 for a system that has very similar sound quality in the 5 speakers but one with a superior sub. Adding the Outlaw LFM-1 (or HSU STF-3) would have included a superb sub for about $857. This sub would go down to about 25Hz at -2dB (about 24Hz at -3dB).

OK, so you don't really want a sub that goes low. I just feel that I had to point out that we are talking here about subs that are not even on the same planet.

Forget about going any larger with the Polk models you are now considering. It will make no improvement in sound. You are going to be crossing over the frequencies from 80Hz and down to the sub. So any larger speakers here are simply wasted frequency response because you are not using any lower response performance below 80Hz. You don't need any higher output in your situation. I hope this is somewhat clear.

So now that I know you are insisting on the floor speakers and a ''music'' only sub I will list here below another great buy. I say music sub only not because the Polk sub is great on music but because it only goes down to 33Hz at -3dB's. That is OK for most music with the exception of pipe organ music or very low systhesized music which goe below the normal bottom of 35Hz or so that you find on most music. However, you will be missing all the very low bass and LFE special effects sounds that frequently reach down to the 15-30Hz range in movies.

Here is a system from JBL (closeout stuff again and consequently the great price) that includes a floor standing type model and a sub that is fine down to about 35Hz or so. Don't get overly concerned about the fact that the Polk system has a 12' versus 10'' sub on this JBL, not much sound difference here.

In my opinion, both of these JBL and Polk systems are very close in quality and peformance:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=357944&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

There are other, much better systems I can recommend in the $1300 range for a 5.1 system but I will not waste any more of your time.

Good luck on your final choice. If you do buy that Polk system at CC, expect to get a significant discount off the $1250 price with a receiver and DVD player. Please don't end up spending $500 more dollars on Monster cables and other high priced speaker wire and cables and also extended warranties. Search here for suggestions on how to save LOTS of money on cables and buying zip cord for speaker wire.

RR6

...where you are coming from. I was just starting my search when I wrote the first post so I did not know what my exact budget was. Now it is, like you predicted, $2000 for 5.1 speaker system, reciever, DVD player and all the required cables. I am now considering throwing in a new TV into the mix. But that is not including in the budget, there will be a whole other budget for that. Roadrunner...I really apreciate all the information you have given me and you have helped me make my choice, somewhat. I will be going with the Polk system except for the sub. I'm still not sure which to go for. I'm leaning towards an Outlaw. But Thanks again.

However I do have a small question that I need answered, from anyone who knows....

Does 10 more watts per channel justify $150 more?.....95w per ch VS 105w per ch

.....all things being equal. Power to loudness is a logarithmic ratio.

Doubling the power, 75 to 150 watts for example gives only an increase of only 3dB's (decibels). 1dB is the smallest increase in volume that most people can detect. An increase of 3dB is perceived by the listener as a ''slight or small'' increase in sound.

It takes a 10dB increase in sound level volume (which is TEN TIMES the amp power) to be perceived by the listener`as ''twice'' as loud.

An example:

75 watts increased to 150 watts = 3dB louder
double that to 300 watts = 6dB louder
double that to 600 watts = 9dB louder
increase that to 750 watts = 10dB louder

You can see here that to obtain volume levels that we perceive as twice as loud that we need to go from 75 watts to 750 watts, 10 times the power.

Of course these are power levels that we would almost never attain but is a clear example to get the point. Amps usually loaf along at very low output of slightly above or even well below 1 watt. They usually only get close to the maximum output of the amp in short peaks.

So normally, again all things being equal, the difference between 95 watts and 105 watts would be insignificant to you 99% of the time.

Be careful here though, that is why I say ''all thing s being equal.'' In many receiver lines from the same brand you might see that there are other differences besides the raw numbers of 95 and 105. The model rated at 105 watts might have other superior differences in the specifications that you haven't noticed.

The same might be true from brand to brand. For example, a receiver from brand A might be listed as 95 watts per channel at 1000Hz, one channel driven, at 8 ohms, at .9% distortion.

Brand B's receiver might be listed as 105 watts per channel at 20-20,000Hz, both two channels driven, at 8 ohms, at .05% distortion. WHOA! There is a big difference here between these two receivers and ''all things are not equal.'' Receiver A under the same specs as receiver B might now only be listed as 30 watts per channel if it could even meet the same distortion and bandwidth specs.

So you have to be very careful and look at all the detailed specs refering to amp power when comparing receivers. There might be more than at first meets the eye than just the 95 to 105 numbers.

Let us know what exact model numbers you are considering and we can give you some comparisons to any other differences in the amp other than the raw numbers.

I know I'm dragging this out here, however, this is extremely important and one of the most misunderstood parts of receiver to speaker matching, namely receiver power. Many HTIB systems in large text list something like 1000 WATTS. If you look into the actual specs (usually they won't even list them) you will find that it is not equal or even close to the quality receiver power ratings in watts like I listed above. In reality that 1000 watt HTIB would be something like 25 watts per channel and stil with higher distortion levels.

In a home theater receiver the most demanding spec would be listing the RMS power output per channel with all 5, 6 or 7 channels being drven at the same time even though that is not a real world situation since you would never have that kind of signal. It is though a tough test and indicates the quality of the amps. A quality amp should also produce more power into 6 and 4 ohms versus 8 ohms. If you have a speaker that is ''low impedence'' that is actually listed or tested at 4 ohms or below then you really need to check into the low impedence perfomance of the receiver, many of which emphasize amps in certain models that are high current models.

In your case with Polk speakers that are apparently an easy nominal 8 ohms load, and having a sub that will produce all the frequencies from 80Hz or so and down, you will end up with a fairly easy load on the amps in your receiver. You have a fairly small room especially with the angled walls. Anything in the 75 watts (quality specs) or more range should be more than you will need, giving you plenty of "headroom."

RR6

Everytime I think of my 2 old Macintoch M.C 30 Amps I want to cry they were stolen about 22 years ago Those lovely amp used 2 KT66 output tubes and a 5U4 rectifier tube and had this huge output transformer tapped for 4,8 16 and 500 ohms output and on a brass label attatched to there huge chrome chassis was a label that stated 30 watts at 10 to a hundred thousand cycles flat response and at 60 watts it was 15 to fifty thousand and if I can remember 120 watts 20 to 20 thousand flat I had a mixer , mics and made money using my gear for picnics dances etc and those little 30watt amps would cover a huge area and talk about loud Even my DENON 3805 120 per channel a/v amp wont even come close to those old tube monsters MR ROADRUNNER YOU ARE REALLY A PRO AND YOU GIVE A LOT TO C,NET YOU REALLY KNOW YOUR SH-T STEWEEEEE

.....for your nice comments. It's fun here especially because of great old farts like you who like to reminisce about the vintage gear and also just cut up sometimes.

RR6

....that I was looking at were any of the Onkyo HDMI recievers except the $5000 flagship.

Onkyo TX-SR604 - $499
http://onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR604&class=Receiver&p=i

Onkyo TX-SR674 - $699
http://onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR674&class=Receiver&p=i

Onkyo TX-SR803 - $799
http://onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR803&class=Receiver&p=i

Onkyo TX-SR804 - $949
http://onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR804&class=Receiver&p=i

Going for one of the higher priced ones would go over my budget, which is OK only if you guys can tell me that it is worth the extra bucks or if it is not that big a deal.

Thanks in advance!

I actually was going to recommend you drop down the the SR504 until I saw that it didn't have an on screen menu, which is sort of nice to have, 75 watts would have been fine. Here is a handy comparison chart from Crutchfield:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3WIHiJlcnCM/cgi-bin/ProdComp.asp?g=10420&c=4&s=0&cc=01&pt2=0&compareitems=580TXS604B&compareitems=580TXS674B&compareitems=580TXS703B&compareitems=580TXS804B&x=13&y=2

One of those 800 series models you listed might be last year's model?

Anyway, I cannot see any reason not to go for the SR604 as far as the amps go. All four of the models you listed have almost the same exact amp. 90-105 watts difference here with the same specs (same THD, etc.) is very insignificant in your size room with the Polk's. You would never hear a difference in 99.9% of the time. I checked the Polk specs also and they are all 89-90dB's sensitivity rating which is average and they are 8 ohms. You have a relatively small room (cubic feet). The SR604 has all the power you need. The weight on these four receivers is very close 25.1lbs-29.8lbs.

Check out the other features to see if anything is missing you can't live without. The higher priced models here will have a learning remote (you can buy one if you need that...URC MX-500 a is great one), They might have another connection or two which you probably will not need and they do have a phono section but you can even get around that. In my opinion, forget the THX Select 2, not important. You might have better results running the video directly to the TV with the cheaper models (no problem in my opinion).

Save your money and put it towards the other equipment or for a better sub like one or even two of the LFM-2's for $549 or the LFM-1 for $579.

Here are some online quotes that you can show them to maybe negotiate a better price.

http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__Onkyo_X_SR604B_Receiver,__23760792/sort_type=bottomline

http://www.electronics-expo.com/product.jsp?x=MONITOR50&zipz=11001

RR6