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What hit the Pentagon on 911?

by Tom Aikman / December 17, 2004 1:26 PM PST
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Well done, but a real stretch
by Diane Harrison / December 17, 2004 2:14 PM PST

This is a rather incredible modern day version of the Kennedy conspiracy theory. Rather amazing. Well, at least we know tht 30 years from now, the History Channel will be debunking this series of myths also. I wonder what they are implying did hit the Pentagon if not the plane that is said to have hit it. And where did all those passengers known to be on that flight die or disappear to - the Bermuda Triangle otherwise?

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I'm sure...
by Tom Aikman / December 17, 2004 2:48 PM PST

There will be plenty of the theories surrounding 911 for years to come. I think we will never know ALL. What we don't know won't hurt us....

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Hopefully you are right
by Diane Harrison / December 17, 2004 3:11 PM PST
In reply to: I'm sure...

I don't think we should be authorized access to all the information for security reasons, but it will be interesting to hear what others think of the film. It loads quite quickly for its size, so long as you're on cable or DSL. Would hate to do it on dial-up.

It will be particularly interesting to hear what Edward and some of the others who have time to follow things more closely have to say about the viability of the airplane wings not sheering off and the issue of no plane wreckage, plus the last part of flying something like 2 feet above the ground at 350 mph (may have that wrong a bit).

Anyway, well done film. Thanks for sharing! Happy Always good to see what other folks are thinking and saying on things.

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(NT) (NT) Interesting 9/11 data
by Catgic / December 17, 2004 6:35 PM PST
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The Video Evidence of 911 In Plane Site
by cbbrown / December 17, 2004 11:56 PM PST
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Pentagon was hit by Boeing 757.
by EdH / December 18, 2004 12:46 AM PST
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Thanks, Ed
by Diane Harrison / December 18, 2004 1:07 AM PST

Snopes, as usual, keeping up with things. The most obvious would be what happened to the flight and the passengers if they did not crash into that building. That is illogical to think that they and the plane are all gone now too, just by coincidence.

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In addition
by EdH / December 18, 2004 1:41 AM PST
In reply to: Thanks, Ed
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Is there a list?
by Tom Aikman / December 18, 2004 1:21 PM PST
In reply to: In addition

I'd like to see a list of the passengers who died on the plane pentagon crash. How about pics of plane wreckage. Was there a black box?
I'm just curious...

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Yes, there is a list, etc.
by Diane Harrison / December 18, 2004 3:40 PM PST
In reply to: Is there a list?

The black box was found, but was too damaged to be of use: http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/14_APboxes.html and http://www.wpi.edu/News/Transformations/2002Spring/hear.html

"Meanwhile, investigators tell Fox News they are getting "good, solid readings" from American Airlines Flight 77's data recorder. That plane crashed into the Pentagon, killing a total of 188 people in Washington ? a combination of military and civilian employees on the ground and the passengers in the plane.

According to data on the recorder, the plane was going 345 miles per hour when it crashed at about 9:30 Tuesday morning. Investigators also say the recorder has speed an altitude information for the plane's entire flight.

The plane's voice recorder was also recovered, but National Transportation Safety Board officials say it was too damaged in the fire to obtain any information from it." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,34412,00.html

Here's another site with links dispelling the conspiracy theory too: http://www.truthminers.com/truth/hunt_the_boeing.htm Here's a pro-conspiracy theory on the black boxes: http://911review.org/Wiki/Flight77BlackBoxes.shtml
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OK if theyweren't the passenger flights we thought they were
by Ziks511 / December 18, 2004 1:35 AM PST

where did all the passengers go? And their aircraft. And why haven't the freight aircraft been reported missing.
Rob B

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Watch out for those black helicopters, and the Moon
by Kiddpeat / December 18, 2004 3:07 AM PST

Landing was done on a Hollywood soundstage. Right up there with Micheal Moore. It's amazing what you can do with video editing. Have you done one on the twin towers? Oh right! There is video of the plane hitting the towers. Of well. Can't winem all. There might be an angle about who was really flying it though.

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Actually I was a bit surprised
by Roger NC / December 18, 2004 3:12 AM PST

that the clip didn't make a claim at the end, or a stronger one anyway, about a missle hit.

I expected a claim that the plane was blown up by a missle from a fighter jet before/as it hit and the government didn't want to admit it. Or that a missle was released by accident from a scrambled fighter after the other collisions. I was certain that somehow it was going to claim a coverup of a foulup.


click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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You're good at conspiracies, Roger!
by Diane Harrison / December 18, 2004 3:37 AM PST

I was wondering what their theory would be on that. But they don't have one and let the audience decide. Not bad for a trailer though.

Now you need to work on a conspiracy theory to say that Saddam was really a nice guy LOL. I thought it was a hoot this morning when the news explained that his war crimes trial would be conducted like a French murder trial. Their one contribution to the war, other than some jokes at their expense.

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french trial oh well he will walk free
by Mark5019 / December 18, 2004 4:02 AM PST

the french cant concict him they got to much involved with there buddy

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Actually, no. They are known for rather harsh justice
by Diane Harrison / December 18, 2004 4:38 AM PST

For some reason, the French manage to have this attitude towards those accused of crimes, that they can darned well rot. The Bastille has a reputation of one of the worst incarceration conditions in the world. Kind of at odds with the rest of what they seem to be about, but that's historically their reputation.

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(NT) (NT) well i hope ur right he best not walk free again
by Mark5019 / December 18, 2004 4:58 AM PST
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(NT) (NT) He's safer in than out if victims' families find him
by Diane Harrison / December 18, 2004 5:16 AM PST
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Rather harsh, but effective capitol punishment
by John Robie / December 18, 2004 6:46 AM PST

was the Guillotine. It takes its name from Joseph-Ignace Guillotin, a French doctor and member of the Revolutionary National Assembly, on whose suggestion it was introduced around 1792. The guillotine was the only legal execution method in France until the abolition of the death penalty in 1981.

Bad incarceration....believe England sending their bad boys to Australia was a lot better than France sending theirs to Devil's Island.

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I think it was the book
by Diane Harrison / December 18, 2004 7:34 AM PST

that was the actual basis of the new movie, "Catch me if you can," that documented some of the hideous treatment of prisoners in the French prisons. Moldy bread, weak soup or water, filthy beddings in freezing cells, etc. And no such rights to appeal or other recourse like in the US and other places. All-in-all, a bad decision to do crimes there.

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Also the movie and a TV documentary
by John Robie / December 18, 2004 11:12 AM PST

I saw on the Discovery Channel some months ago about Devils Island in French Guyana. Any of our prisons would be like spending a vacation with Al Capone down in Florida when he got out of prison by comparison. The movie Pappillion with Steve McQueen and Dustin Hoffman some years back showed the harsh condition at Devils Island, but it was much worse according to the wittinesses interviewed on the TV documentary.

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Catch me if you can?
by Roger NC / December 18, 2004 1:32 PM PST
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Haven't seen either movie
by Diane Harrison / December 18, 2004 2:25 PM PST
In reply to: Catch me if you can?

Read the book by the actual guy who was the con artist. His descriptions of prison life were incredible. He concluded that it is best not to do crime in France again.

As I recall, he had been using his fiance's father to make false money orders or something similar. He got caught once, somewhere else, got away , and then went back to France where he did it again on a grander scale, and then got caught. If I am remembering right, he spent several years in prison there for that. His discussion of the prison was incredible - something out of medieval times, and a place and conditions that absolutely would not be tolerated in this society.

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Does anyone know if there's any truth to the story that
by Kiddpeat / December 18, 2004 10:43 AM PST

one guy was able to blink at his friend after his head was cut off?

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Just possible KP.....
by John Robie / December 18, 2004 10:59 AM PST

A friend of mine (now deceased) witnessed a legal government beheading in Saudi Arabia while he was working there under an American Contractor about 25 years ago. He happened to be in the City and the crowd spotted him being a 'Gringo', pushed him up to the front.

My friend said the body does wiggle after the beheading. I din't ask about the eyes or want to hear anymore.

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During the aftermath of the French Revolution, one of the
by Ziks511 / December 18, 2004 2:43 PM PST

accused was Antoine Lavoisier, a famous French scientist and discoverer of Oxygen. He made arrangements with his executioners and friends to conduct a final experiment by blinking slowly and deliberately after the execution. His eyes appeared clear and bright and could track faces and swivel to look at others. He blinked 15 or more times before his eyes went dull and he stopped blinking, a period estimated at approximately 15 seconds.

Rob B

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Marie Antoinette and others too
by Diane Harrison / December 18, 2004 3:06 PM PST

The accounts of the beheadings (particularly hers) talk of the surprised look on the heads' faces after they are cut off. Some blinked and other opened their eyes wider as in shock. Trying to remember which historical book had the most info on this. Might have been one on the history of law enforcement.

The brain continues to function and certain synapses in the region of the head continue on for a matter of seconds, from a practical matter, or so I've been taught, which accounts for the movements in those last moments.

Of course, the major issue back then was the bribes taken by the executioners to male sure the blade was not dull. The poor folks who could not afford bribes got chopped a few times before the whole of the severing was completed. Keep in mind that the government executions of political prisoners also forced the families of those prisoners to witness the executions and they were not allowed to close thieir eyes. Truly barbaric times!

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Saddam a nice guy?
by Roger NC / December 18, 2004 1:26 PM PST
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Nice try, Roger
by Diane Harrison / December 18, 2004 3:09 PM PST
In reply to: Saddam a nice guy?

but I don't think even your creativity can make that man into a nice guy no matter what. More like an three apples rotten to the core. And besides that, he thought 60's-70's decor was stylish, so he also violated the fashion police laws too Wink

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A Boeing 757 w/passengers hit the Pentagon on 9-11
by John Robie / December 18, 2004 4:58 PM PST

Hi Tom,

I didn't download your referenced site because of the length and slowness of my dialup connection. I was able to read what was in http://www.policestate21.com/ which basically covers the subject.

In my estimation, it is all poppycock/crap. There is always a certain amount of people trying to twist and convince that there is something sinister about our government desiring a cover up on 9-11. Some do it for the money it will generate in more ways than one.

A few days before this past September 11, I stayed up 4 hours until 3AM watching about 9/11 on the TV History channel. One of the documentaries showed film on the twin towers construction and engineering comments concerning the construction compared to steel box frame construction, what caused and about the collapse, all about the aftermath cleanup problems/rescue, etc...
Engineers have figured out what caused the pancake effect of the two towers which it seems the doubters haven't bothered to read or look into. Have also seen a documentary with eyewitness victims working in the Pentagon crawling through to escape, and they do not conflict with the Commission report.

The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the 9-11 Commission), an independent, bipartisan commission created by congressional legislation, released its report on July 22, 2004. I cannot believe that the independent investigators of the Commission were fooled.

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