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General discussion

What high end Camcorder is for me?

Oct 4, 2010 4:01PM PDT

Hi folks,
I would love to hear your advice on what camcorder is best suited to my needs. My budget is $700-$1200. Here are the things I require in order of importance:

1) Compatible w/ Apple Final Cut Pro.
2) Great HD quality in low light.
3) Manual audio adjustment.
4) HDD w/ 40+ GB
5) 24 fps recording.

Thanks alot!
Matt

Discussion is locked

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You cannot buy a high end camcorder for $1,200
Oct 5, 2010 12:12AM PDT

unless you buy it used.

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I agree with
Oct 5, 2010 8:56AM PDT

Desperado JC... but I am concerned about your Hard Disc Drive requirement. Since HDDs have known issues with trying to record in high vibration environments and high altitude, there are not too many of them over about $1,300. The folks that get to this level know better. When the hard disc drive crashes, all the video on it will be gone - whether you transferred it to the computer, or not.

Flash memory camcorders record the same file formats as HDD in this price range. Basically, the Canon HF S series and the Sony HDR-CX500 series. The CX500 series has a 37mm lens filter diameter while the S 100 58mm lens filter diameter with a single (1/2.6" for Canon; 1/2.88" for Sony) CMOS imaging chip. Their lowlight behavior is OK - but not "great". If you need "great", then you need larger lenses and imaging chips and a bigger budget.

We don't know which version Apple Final Cut Pro you are using - or which Mac or which version OSX - so there is no way for us to know if the camcorders will be compatible with your particular environment. I have successfully used a HF S100 and HDR-CX550 with my Intel-chip based Macs and Final Cut Express.

The Canon HF S series and the Sony HDR-CX500 series have manual audio gain control and the gain control is accessed by assigning the single control thumbwheel on the outside of the camcorder that function. When the thumbwheel is assigned that functions, other manual functions that might be assigned to that thumbwheel cannot be used until you go into the menu and select the other function. Both series cams also have a 1/8" (3.5mm) stereo audio in port for external audio connectivity. Use of an XLR adapter (juicedLink or BeachTek - among others) is recommended if XLR mics are used. The added benefit is the XLR adapter can be the manual audio control. The Canon HV40 does 24 fps, is miniDV tape based, has manual audio control and a 1/8" stereo mic jack, too.

Skipping your hard disc drive requirement.

24 fps for the Canon; The CX500 series does not even have the fake "cineframe" many other Sonys have.

If "great" low light behavior is a requirement, then you start with camcorders that have lens filter diameter of 70mm or larger and imaging chips that are 1/3" (or larger) in a 3CCD or 3CMOS array. Basically, for high definition, the Canon XHA1 or Sony HDR-FX1000. Both are more than twice what you want to spend, record to miniDV tape - but can use external recording devices from Focus Enhancements' FireStore series (Sony has one for their cams, too). You can check on the 24 fps with these. There are others, these are merely the starting point for "great" low light behavior.

So... you get to either change your requirements or increase your budget.

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Thanks Alot!
Oct 5, 2010 11:47AM PDT

Thanks so much Boya84 for your detailed advice. You have given me many options to look at. By the way, I am running FCP 5 on MacOX 10.4 "Tiger." Any compatibility issues with the cameras you suggested. Thanks so much.
Matt

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and...
Oct 5, 2010 11:59AM PDT

I have a G4 PowerMac 1.25Ghz and 2Gb or ram. Old school but it does the job.
Cheers,
Matt.

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If you read the requirements
Oct 5, 2010 1:08PM PDT

regarding FCP (or iMovie), you need to note that AVCHD compressed MTS files (these typically would be consumer grade flash memory or hard disc drive camcorders) require an Intel-chip based Mac. The version of FCP does not matter if the CPU is a PPC chip. That would be your G4 (or even my G5). Your G4 (or my G5) Mac cannot deal directly with AVCHD/MTS files from consumer grade flash memory or hard disc drive AVCHD/MTS camcorders.

I agree, "Old school but it does the job"[/], but cannot deal with AVCHD/MTS files unless you transcode them first to a useful format - like some sort of h.264 HDV encoded format, then bring the transcoded files into FCP (or iMovie). Because your Mac has no Intel chip, it probably won't even recognize the AVCHD/MTS camcorder is attached - if it does, it probably won't be able to do anything with the MTS files but copy them.

MPEG StreamClip
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/video/mpegstreamclip.html
can do the transcoding after copying the MTS files to the Mac.

Transcoding will take a while; then importing the file to FCP will take a while.

If you were using an appropriate Mac with an Intel CPU (and fast enough clock speed), then connect the AVCHD/MTS cam with a USB cable, put the cam in Play or PC mode, launch the current - or at least 2 years recent - FCP (or iMovie) and "Log and Capture" the video (not Import and not Capture).

Please keep in mind, that the best AVCHD/MTS video can do from consumer-grade camcorders is 24 mbps data stream (many max out at 17 mbps). In this case, higher bit rate is better as it represents less compression on the digital video data stream. HDV (and DV) format video does 25 mbps.

Your G4 Mac (whatever it is) has at least one 6-pin firewire port. Connect the miniDV tape camcorder's DV port to the computer's firewire port with a 4-pin to 6-pin firewire cable. Launch FCP (Sequence and Capture presets need to be HDV Apple Intermediate Codec 1080i60) and Capture the video. With a G4, importing HDV will not be "real time" (importing DV is). When I imported/edited HDV using a G5 iMac flatpanel, one hour of HDV video importing took upwards of 2.5 hours (and 44 gig hard drive space). Reference point: My 2 year old 2.66 GHz Core 2 Duo 24" iMac can import HDV at real time.

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Thanks Boya84
Oct 5, 2010 3:41PM PDT

I suspected that the Intel chip thing was going to be an issue. Too bad because I like using FCP but clearly I need an upgrade if I am going to buy a camera like the Cannon HFS (which looks really great, thanks.) Since you are obviously the man to talk to about these things, if I were to go PC what would the minimum requirements (cpu and os)be to interact with a Vixia HFS without any issues? I would probably go with Adobe Premiere for the editing unless you can suggest a better program (aside from Vegas which I am not too crazy about)that offers a somewhat similar feature list that FCP has. Again, cheers so much for the advice.
Matt

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Windows?
Oct 5, 2010 11:37PM PDT

I won't suggest manufacturers or models. Pretty much any real computer (not a netbook, tablet, etc.) made in the last year or so. 4 gig RAM minimum. Huge hard drive. Same as with Macs (even a MacMini or MacBook)... I gave up on Windows doing real work a while ago and have not yet seen a compelling reason to return. From my perspective, the hardware that can deal with high definition video is about the same $ when comparing name brand manufacturer's gear - whether running OSX or other operating system. And since I can run OSX or Windows or Linux on Apple hardware, it provides the most flexibility.

If you are focused on minimum requirements, then you can expect issues when trying to do other things while editing or rendering. You can get the minimum requirements from the video editor's manufacturer's web site. I suggest exceeding these - but that is up to you. Adobe products are good. Vegas is fine, too.

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Canon HF S21
Oct 27, 2010 6:20AM PDT

Check it out in Amazon.com