What happens when a thread is closed (usually for

Seems fitting, no? Rob likes German. He likes to call people "****", and point out that it means "fat" in German.

All clear now?

Rob's hummor two above mine to gett unnerstnd

Your thread was locked because you reposted a locked topic.

While I had his ear, I thought I would see if I could get DK to explain himself. It's not about you.

Rob wants it to be about Rob

panoply (sark, sark) of opinion here. I don't try to cater to anyone, including the Mods, I just call it as I see it and ask questions as they occur to me. I do continue to be surprised by the homogeneity of opinion here, I expected more variety, but it's almost all Rightist drivel (my opinion) quoted from the same sources.

The general opinion here is that I see too much and in too distorted a way, and my opinion is that people should look around more and maybe they'd find out the distortion arises from seeing everything from the same perspective through the same set of glasses.

But maybe that's seen as too arrogant, when it's just my opinion. You know if I were as arrogant as some people think, and as much of a poseur as other people think, I'd be so tired concocting my persona I wouldn't have any time to post.

By and large, I'm the one who writes long, long screeds on this or that subject, which seems to give people something to snipe at with their NT's and 4 line posts. You can't put much thought into a 4 line post or outline much of an argument, let alone in an NT. But I certainly seem to contribute to group cohesiveness, because at least they all know what and who they're against.

But please don't think I'm feeling sad or lonely or depressed, I just went to a wonderful 50th Birthday party where everybody talks more or less like I do, and uses words of more than one syllable the way I do, and has a good education and a heterogenous view of the world. It was quite delightful.

Most of what I do here in the Forum is question the divine right of primacy and the inerrancy of the United States, and its current Emperor, who feels he has no obligation to follow the laws of the country he's supposed to be the head of. And a fine example he's setting for everyone, especially his friends in the Corporations who don't follow the rules or the laws much anyway.

Besides, it's rather dull confining yourself to one meaning in a sentence when with virtually no effort you can get reverberations going, and subtext.

I wonder how many here can without Googling identify the line "The way I walk is just the way I walk?" and its source for example?

I particularly like the Zen koan (meditative puzzle) that applies so well here, "What is the sound of one hand clapping". Obviously there is no sound, it is a meaningless gesture, but not a meaningless question. If everybody is in complete agreement, why even bother posting, unless you need the security of hearing your own views reflected over and over. Without a contrary position, or opposition, your position is equally meaninless because it has no need to justify itself, to engage with the real world, or with a different view of what is in the real world. It's empty, void of meaning except that in so far as it is shared, it keeps those with the same views in lock step and unaware of, to choose an item at random, it's government violating the laws against unlawful search and seizure, or wiretapping, and if it keeps you in lock step in support of those policies, it erodes democracy.

Now that is at the root of many of my posts. From outside the United States, it looks like you all are abandoning the principles that used to make the United States great. Freedom of opinion, freedom of expression, and freedom from an intrusive central government and its secret or not so secret police. Just saying that it's not so is no answer, because the President says he's been doing all those things but that he can because he's the President. Well the American Revolution was about that precise thing. Is a head of state above the laws of the State (in Britain that used to be true at the time of the American Revolution) and what does that mean to the rights of the governed? Is it tyrany when the President can do anything he wants and not be taken to account? And if it is, how did we get there?

All I can say is that it looks bad from outside, for those of us who care about the United States. And it looks bad for those who use the United States as a model for development of democratic institutions and for the "moral suasion" that the US used to be able to exert as a definedly completely democratic country. The United States doesn't look nearly so democratic as it once did. It looks like an oligarchy run by an immature plutocrat which makes up the rules as it and he goes along. And I'm not the only one who sees it this way. Read widely in the European press and you will see a mourning for the loss of a dependable exemplar of democratic government. The world is diminished by the United States failures, just as it was lifted up by its successes. But apparently its success in government has never been of interest to those who post here. It's always been about the money, about American economic primacy. It's a damned poor way to run a country. And remember, the rest of the world is a hell of a lot larger than the US, when they cease to respect you, they'll eat you alive. China is just sitting there waiting.

Thanks to James and to Marcia B for sparking this extended meditation on the sad state of the US as viewed from the outside. External opinions matter notwithstanding all beliefs here at SE to the contrary.

Rob

WHO CARES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think Toni said it very well, "Most of your posts are so overfilled with information that it almost feels like a flaunting of your intelligence or a case of 'if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull'.
I could add to that but certainly the mod alert would be used because the truth would not be pleasant for you to hear.

A lot you take exception with changed with the Roosevelt years, the Depression, and WW2 and it's aftermath on Europe. Roosevelt established the king type presidency, the Depression caused loss of self sufficiency and nurtured the concept of dependency on government, and the needs of Europe both in wartime and following completely overturned the concept of isolationism from Europe that had dominated American politics previously and restricted it to the Monroe Doctrine. All you see happening today, 60 years later, has it's roots in the soil of that period.

(I lived during those times.)

The programs initiated in the First Roosevelt years - the WPA and the CCC- were not welfare. The men had to work hard for their pay, and send so much of it home to their families. Thus the work ethic was preserved.

(BTW, Europe suffered from the same Depression.)

The Dust Bowl lasted for about 10 years on the heels of the Depression. These were working farmers, noit lay-a-bouts, that suffered.

http://www.usd.edu/anth/epa/dust.html

"Hobos" would come to the back door, asking for a sandwich in exchange for work. like mowing grass, raking leaves, etc. I know of no one who refused them. The work ethic remained.

There was just a show on PBS about orphanages of that time. Most children there were not prphans, but were taken there because the parent could not feed or clothe them.

Thus what was done in the Roosevelt years was not welfare by today's definition, which does little to inspire work now, though some states are making changes.

So I do not agree that Roosevelt destroyed the work ethic with the programs of the day. The country also benefitted from the work that was done- schools, libraries, parks, etc., which was done with pride.

You might consider them "government hand-outs", but I hold there was a valuable return for them.

Rooseelt was mocked, his wife criticized, and everyone was not thrilled when WWII was declared, though most people knew it was necessary and rose to the occasion. It was a time of unity and patriotism I have not seen again until the Gulf War.

The GI Bill let vets buy homes, get an education. I don't consider those government hand-outs either, but earned by having served.

The Marshall Plan for war-ravaged Europe also benefitted the US economy.

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/57.htm

IMO, the cry for hand outs came later.

Angeline
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email
semods4@yahoo.com

Foreign papers have criticized the US for decades. So it is nothing new.

Where I see your focus is on thie present administration, which, like all of the other adminsitrations, gets its licks fromt the foreign press.

There are many Europeans who have no concept of how big this country is. I know of a German visitor in CA that said he was going to drive up to see the Grand Canyon over the weekend, and would be back that Sunday.

I know of some who thought we all lived like those on the "Dallas" TV show.

Most who visit here go to the coastal cities, not Middle America.

They read about our warts (which we have always hung out for all to see), and what makes the foreign news are the uglier ones.

Regardless of whether folks like or dislike President Bush doesn't matter. None of our presidents are born to that role, as are monarchs. We stand, not curtsy or bow, when a president enters the room. The Presidency is much bigger and more important than one person. It is the Oval Office that we honor, regardless of who sits at the desk.

Our system prevents any of them from becoming an "emperor". If they actually try, that will come to light and steps taken. It might not be today, tomorrow, or later, but it will happen. And the steps will be taken in this country and by our countrymen. All without the help of the foreign press.

Europeans fought each other for centuries, internally and across borders. There was a feudal sstem. Our country is new. They thought our form of government would never work. Thus they continue to keep us under the microscope., and, IMO, have gloated over our mis- steps.

Yet they also have their riots, unemployment, and dissatisfaction with their leaders, which hardly qualifies them to criticize us. They did realize that there is more strength in unity, so formed the European Uniion.

You have made your opinion about President Bush on many occasions. Your expressing of those have become more harsh. You have never wished him or us as a nation well, though you say you care.

You know what responses you will get.


Angeline
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email
semods4@yahoo.com