General discussion

website errors when viewed on mac

Hello,

I am a webmaster and have created a large commercial website. It comes up perfectly in Internet Explorer 6.0 with IBM computers running Win 98, Win 2000 or Win Xp Home. BUT when someone views my site on a Macintosh Computer, the frames, and layers of the index page (home page) get all out of lined.

I have created this site using Macromedia Dreamweaver MX 2004 using layers, frames and the "normal" web tools. It loads perfectly in Internet Explorer 6.0 and loads fairly quick. There is also a Java 2 Applet Movie rotating about 45 or so photos on the right of the index page. Everything works as it should in IE 6.0 and on a IBM computer.....others are saying when they look at the site on a Mac computer, the index pages loads, but all the information is out of line.

HELP - I need this site to view correctly in ALL browsers, IE and Mozilla, plus on every computer, IBM and MAC...so what do you suggest in how I can fix this????

This is URGENT. Please email me directly ksorman@shaw.ca or using this forum. I need this sorted out ASAP.

The same thing happens when viewed in a Mozilla browser...any suggestions?

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Errors

I am not an expert on this but it would seem that you have built this site, whether knowingly or not, specifically for IE 6.0 on Windows. If you were to look at this site using IE 5.x for Windows, you would find that there are errors there too.
Each browser has it's own quirks and a good webmaster will either steer clear of proprietary html code (Microsoft) or produce code that takes into account ALL the browsers, and their quirks, out there. I am guessing that you built the site using W2K or XP. There are really only three, M$(IE5.x&IE6.x), Netscape(kinda Mozzilla), Safari(Mozilla based), Mozzilla and Firefox(Mozilla)
So the problem is not specifically a Mac problem, see the IE 5.x comment, but a browser problem. Remember that more and more people are moving to Mozilla (Firefox). Macworld has a good article on this very subject in this months issue. http://www.macworld.com

hope this helps

P

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re: Errors

Thanks very much for your reply. Yep your right, I used IE 6 and Win Xp Home.
Do you think if I evaluate the site using www.W3.org for HTML 4.01 it WILL FIX all the errors? and make the site Viewable in ALL types of Browsers and ALL types of Computers?..Or, am I missing something else here?

Thanks again, any suggestions greatly appreciated.

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Errors on Web Page

You might want to take a look at this site, http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/html/en/index.jsp which will, or should, be able to give you guidance on building a Web Site that conforms to the correct standards.
Don't forget, the problem is with the Browsers, NOT the computers.

P

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Errors

Could be that the Bobby site is NOT quite what I thought.
However, here is a link to the article I mentioned in an earlier reply. It deals mainly with CSS but points you in the right direction. Note, too, the differences in IE5 and IE6 both for Windows.

http://www.macworld.com/2005/02/secrets/febcreate/index.php

P

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Layers vrs Tables

OK. I have had a response from a web design teacher who has taught for over 20 years - and he thinks I need to recreate every page on my site (100-150 pages) into tables...As I've used layers, that appears to be the problem - the layers are overlap and everything gets out of wack when viewed in Mozilla or Macintosh computers.

Is there a way to easily convert layers into tables without having to re create the whole site? I know there is a way in Dreamweaver - but, because I have used nested layers (on ontop of another) it won't work and says sorry.

If anyone can offer URGENT help with this and if you could perhaps take some time out to review my code web site in different browsers, then please email me for the link to my site.

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Layers vs. Tables

Check your settings for DW. There is a place where you can check that does not allow layer overlap. If that is selected, then you just need to "un-select" it and it should then change the layers into tables. If that still doesn't work, then that teacher you mentioned is partly right. Thing is to not design your sites basing everything on one browser especially IE. IE is the type of browser that is more forgiving of things that don't adhere to the web standards that other browsers do. As you create a web site, it should be previewed using more than one browser.

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Layers v. tables

I have had similar problems to yours and believed that the word had gotten out about layers.
If you are building across browser platforms NEVER EVER use layers. They just do not work. I use .css style sheet for positioning etc.

It would help if you could get the pages to validate, the one I checked had 26 errors in the code.

As for rebuilding your site you might want to get started so you will be finished sooner. Just ask Dreamweaver help what to do, I got useful information by typing in 'convert layers to tables'.


You should talk to you boss and get a Mac with every browser you can find,and test,test and test again, all pages before you go live with them. This has saved me hours of work and I learned how to use a Mac OS too.

Sorry for your troubles and good luck.

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Tables

Ok Thanks guys. I guess I just have to bit the built and re create using tables! May take a while, as there is over 150 pages!

Yes, I admit I should have tested the site before it went live. I did not do that for Macintosh, as I did not have that system......I guess you learn as you go!

Any one else with suggestions, please email me directly if any one out there has a better solution.

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Web Site

You keep saying Macintosh. That was only part of the problem. The major problem was that the coding was faulty to start with. Anyone using anything less than your personal setup was doomed to failure. With only a PC you could have tested using 6 different browsers and found problems even before you assumed the problem to be a Mac one.
Not all Windows users are driving XP or IE6, no matter what M$ tells you.

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W3.org complaince

Yes, all pages should be run through the W3.org compliance engine. It doesn't matter whether you spec it as 4.01-strict, 4.01-loose, 3.x, etc., it should pass the compliance page without generating errors. 95+% of the cross-platform webdev I see with problems tends to be stuff that the W3 engine would have caught. They also have a simple link to build into the bottom of your webpages to test from the webpage itself; I use them on my site work (and yes, my primary site is simplistic to make sure that I can serve everyone, including people on decade-old systems).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet
www.cyberpoet.net

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Wrong design/development procedure

You're not following LCD ("lowest common denominator") design procedure. Instead, you are (at least implicitly) designing specifically for IE (a non-compliant browser) and then complaining that your pages don't work on compliant browsers.

Design only to Mozilla spec WITHOUT ANY JAVASCRIPT (ask if you want to know why and how) and test first on Mozilla (1.7, Firefox) then on the also-rans. If you are reluctant to do so because you must know HTML and PHP (for example), there's no way around knowing what you're doing. Everytime someone comes along and promises that they can help you do something technical without your knowing what you're doing, YOU will pay some sort of price. Your problems with MAC browser are the price you pay this time. As long as you continue trying to succeed in business without really trying, an endless list of new prices will continue being exacted.

As for the usefulness of web page design utilities that promise to make it easy for you, if you read web page rating services (e.g., "Web Pages That Suck") you will receive valuable guidance on everything to LEAVE OUT of your web pages. BIG surprise: surfers spend 60% or more time READING content, not playing with cutsie gadgets and admiring flashy artwork.

Molly Holzschlag's "Using HTML 4" will be the best investment you'll ever make.

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Please explain: Design "WITHOUT ANY JAVASCRIPT"

Kordestani,
Would you please explain your reply in more detail, especially the comment "Design only to Mozilla spec WITHOUT ANY JAVASCRIPT".

I thought JavaScrip was required for rollovers, etc.

Thanks
eljones

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Roll-overs without Java Script

You can do roll-overs without java, using client-side image maps and roll-over states in the graphic format (gif, pnt). You won't get the same high-end capabilities, but you will get LCD-Dev which is always what you should target, and generally fast loads even on the oldest/slowest machines if you keep the graphics simple (fewer primary colors). Remembering that there are at least 4 primary Java engines out there, and that they aren't always compatible (MS Java in particular tends to use some MS-specific calls, plus there's Sun, Symantec, etc).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet
www.cyberpoet.net

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Read This...
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Wrong Tool

Should have built it on a mac!

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Built on a Mac

Don't go there. Don't you know the guy is embarrassed enough that he used a non compliant website builder and tested with a non compliant browser?
Why rub in the obvious mistake Happy

P

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Sorry

True, guess the Mac in me got the better of me!

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