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General discussion

weapons in the house?

Mar 13, 2005 12:46PM PST
4-year-old boy shoots brother in Houston

In a shocking incident in Houston, a 4-year-old boy shot his 2-year-old brother with a gun taken from his mother's purse. The 2-year-old, suffered a single gunshot wound to the temple, and is in critical condition at Ben Taub Hospital. The incident took place at around 4:20 p.m. at a home in the 5500 block of Gatewood near South Post Oak Boulevard.

Sgt. Cameron Grysen of the Houston Police Department Homicide Division said that the boys had an argument & the 2-year-old threw a toy at his brother after which the shooting took place. ?The 4-year-old was angry, he went and got the gun, put it to his brother's head and shot the gun," Grysen said.

The mother of the children told authorities that she had the gun to protect her family after a spate of recent neighborhood burglaries, but Saturday was the one-day that she did not secure the weapon.

Discussion is locked

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That was then. This is now. When I was four, or thereabouts,
Mar 15, 2005 6:40AM PST

I had no idea where a real gun, if we had any, was kept. I didn't even know where my pen knives, which my father confiscated as soon as he saw them, were kept. I did know where my cap guns were. Much later I knew where the loaded gun was, but I also knew not to point it at anyone.

Today, we have things like gun safes and trigger locks. Either one will keep a child from firing the gun. Either will leave the gun reasonably available if its needed for self defense.

Times have changed. We aren't in Kansas anymore.

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Talk about naive!
Mar 14, 2005 2:18PM PST

You're gonna rely on Mace/Taser for home defense? Let me know how that works out; I could use the laugh. I even promise to not say I told you so, even though I did, more than once.

That said, in the interest of minimizing the collateral damage, I would be happy to explain the folly of your approach to your wife. Feel free to pass on my email address, or just have her post here.

Mark

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Hi, Mark@n.
Mar 15, 2005 2:54AM PST

If I lived in a particularly violent neighborhood (I'd move!) or civil unrest were increasing, I might rethink. But at this point I believe the now-vanished FBI stats saying that a gun kept in the home "for protection" is several times (ca 5, AIR?) more likely to kill or seriously injure a family member than an intruder. Thus, no standard gun. No, mace is not as good (for the reasons I mentioned myself), but until the taser comes out, it's the best substitute, unless you think nothing is better than an inefficient defense. The taser should almost as effective as a gun at the range one's likely to be shooting under such circumstances, and the danger of a severe/lethal accident (or intentional misuse against a family member, as in the case that precipitated this discussion) is much reduced, so the odds should much favor true defensive use over the unfortunate alternatives, unlike Mark G's .44.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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dave the flaw in your logic
Mar 15, 2005 4:26AM PST

"If I lived in a particularly violent neighborhood (I'd move!) or civil unrest were increasing,"

it can happen any where with no notice!

and i hope you never regret your decision not to own a gun, when if ever you run into a drug user on pcp..
if your lucky your gun owning next door neighbor will save your fsmiaslly as a taser or mase will just make your atacker madder

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Why is it, Dave...
Mar 15, 2005 4:46AM PST

Dave, over the years I have known at least 25 people (probably closer to 50) who kept a gun in the house.
But never had any of those people killed or seriously injured a family member. Why is that Dave, in light of your several times more likely "vanished" statistic that you like to mention? Methinks that that 5 times statistic leaves a lot to be desired in the truth/realibility category.

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That's quite true. I had forgotten, but a Prof. at the Univ.
Mar 15, 2005 6:51AM PST

of Chicago studied the statistics. He found that guns saved far more lives than were lost through their use. He wasn't too popular in academic circles, but his study bears out what we observe in many other ways today.

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John R. Lott Jr.
Mar 15, 2005 9:53AM PST
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It's not just kids, J.
Mar 15, 2005 12:20PM PST

The other major problem is when someone goes for the gun during a domestic dispute.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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(NT) (NT) then they use knife, bat, lamp
Mar 15, 2005 12:35PM PST
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Does that mean, Dave...
Mar 15, 2005 2:58PM PST

Dave, does that mean that if there is no gun available in a domestic dispute, there can't be a fatality? Your "logic" is worse than your usual norm in such discussions.

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In a domestic dispute ...
Mar 15, 2005 8:08PM PST

... if one spouse is going to turn homicidal, they will find a way to do so. You make less sense the more you explain your position.

Evie Happy

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I disagree
Mar 16, 2005 2:56AM PST

I would think that the more difficult to kill the less likely it would happen.

If a gun is right there when the "crazy" anger hits Blam! Blam! your dead. If, when the "crazy" anger hits you have to grab a club and bludgeon the person to death you are less likely to complete the task.

I of course have no stats to back this up it's just thinking out loud so to speak.

For the record I support the second and the right to gun ownership.

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My point ...
Mar 16, 2005 1:43PM PST

... is that most adults know what a gun is capable of. If anything, I could see doing something I thought would be non-lethal before I would ever point a gun at my hubby or vice versa. I've often said "I wanna kill that jerk" when peeved at the hubby. I've never even come close to meaning it. I stand by my statement that anyone that has serious concern that an argument will turn their spouse homicidal ought to get the you-know-what out. That's my problem with the 4 y.o. It is odd behavior, if it went down as Mom says (I have my doubts) for little kids to go get a weapon rather than just slug his little brother. Hope this makes sense.

Evie Happy

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In a state with right to carry...
Mar 15, 2005 4:58AM PST

are you willing to hang a "Gun free home" sign on your house?

I bet you are not because you know that would be an invite.

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theres a town in ga dave cant live in
Mar 15, 2005 5:38AM PST

all homes must have a gun in it

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(NT) (NT) That's Kennesaw and it's not enforced
Mar 15, 2005 5:48AM PST
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(NT) (NT) at the moment so dave dont move
Mar 15, 2005 8:20AM PST
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its still on the books
Mar 15, 2005 10:12AM PST

To access the City of Kennesaw's Code of Ordinances, please click here

Gun Law Ordinances
The City's most famous ordinance adopted in March 1982 reads as follows. Click here for a link to the Police Department for statistical information on crime or contact the City Clerks office for additional information.

Sec. 34-1 Heads of households to maintain firearms.
(a) In order to provide for the emergency management of the City, and further in order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants, every head of household residing in the City limits is required to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition therefore.

http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/CodeOfOrdinances.aspx

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(NT) (NT) It's the law in Kennesaw
Mar 15, 2005 5:48AM PST
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ok
Mar 15, 2005 12:55PM PST

or mentaly chalanged i gues his out to object.
see theres a way out allways.

and i hope the nieghbors can come running if a gun is needed

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(NT) (NT) or if a person just doesn't want weapons in house
Mar 15, 2005 1:15PM PST
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(NT) (NT) has to prove it not just saying it
Mar 15, 2005 10:07PM PST
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oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs
Mar 15, 2005 10:15PM PST
has to prove it not just saying it

Don't you think that if you didn't have firearms in your house, it would be proof that you don't want fire arms in your house?

If that wasn't proof enough, they could get a firearm, bring it into the house and then throw the firearm outside, would that be proof?

Your proof that you want firearms in your house, is the fact that you have weapons in the house.

Their proof they don't want firearms in the house, is they don't have any weapons in the house.
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jp thats like saying
Mar 15, 2005 11:02PM PST

i dont have a billion dollars yet so i dont want to have it.

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And if I lived there, I'd sue (or perhaps move out ....)
Mar 15, 2005 12:22PM PST

if I had kids, because I wouldn't wantthem picking up that mindset.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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well you move because it was tried
Mar 15, 2005 12:37PM PST

you would lose law suit save money move.

and what mind set to protect your self or be a victim?

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The suit would fail but they would welcome your move...
Mar 16, 2005 2:34AM PST

because they do not want to be encumbered with citizens of your mindset--parasites to the established and mutually supportive social order who demand protection but refuse to be a part of anyone else's.

I guess that could be called an ABORTED residency.

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"Sudden home invasions"
Mar 15, 2005 2:18AM PST

DaveK,

If there is an invasion on your home, it's likely gonna be one of 2 scenarios. Either you will hear someone trying to break in, which gives you enough time to unlock/load your weapon, or someone is standing over your bed as you awaken, in which case reaching for a gun OR taser in the bedstand or under the mattress will likely not work anyway, since the intruder already has an advantage.

--Cindi
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email the mods

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Depends how strong your door is, Cindi!
Mar 15, 2005 2:47AM PST

Of course, the odds of violent home invasions for those not tied to the drug trade is still quite low, thank goodness!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!