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We may not have found weapons of M.D but we are finding plenty of other things

Feb 28, 2004 9:49PM PST
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/29/international/middleeast/29FOOD.html?th

Hussein's Regime Skimmed Billions From Aid Program

BAGHDAD, Iraq ? In its final years in power, Saddam Hussein's government systematically extracted billions of dollars in kickbacks from companies doing business with Iraq, funneling most of the illicit funds through a network of foreign bank accounts in violation of United Nations sanctions.

Millions of Iraqis were struggling to survive on rations of food and medicine. Yet the government's hidden slush funds were being fed by suppliers and oil traders from around the world who sometimes lugged suitcases full of cash to ministry offices, said Iraqi officials who supervised the skimming operation.

The officials' accounts were enhanced by a trove of internal Iraqi government documents and financial records provided to The New York Times by members of the Iraqi Governing Council. Among the papers was secret correspondence from Mr. Hussein's top lieutenants setting up a formal mechanism to siphon cash from Iraq's business deals, an arrangement that went unnoticed by United Nations monitors.

Under a United Nations program begun in 1997, Iraq was permitted to sell its oil only to buy food and other relief goods. The kickback order went out from Mr. Hussein's inner circle three years later, when limits on the amount of oil sales were lifted and Iraq's oil revenues reached $10 billion a year.
The rest of the story is on the link
speakeasy speakeasygang

What I find most amazing, that there are people who are members of Speakeasy who speak out in support of that terrible evil man. Sad

Discussion is locked

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Re:Pitiful, absolutely pitiful.
Mar 2, 2004 2:54AM PST

Hi, DE.

I agree, that many deaths are truly pitiful. Our news media primarily support the invasion, and have never bothered to add up the cost to the Iraqis. There were 143 Iraqis killed in bombings today that clearly never would have happened before the invasion.

Again -- Saddam was a bad, evil person. But the jury is still out on whether the world and Iraq (to say nothing of the US) are better off now than they were with the status quo ante. Ignoring that possibility is refusing to deal with current reality.

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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What do you mean Dave - they would be better off if the terrorists didn't cause these attrocities
Mar 2, 2004 8:12AM PST

and I am stunned to think that you think a country should be run by an evil and mad dictator, and someone who would have had no hesitation to drop a nuclear bomb on Israel. It was just a question of time before he acquired just that.
We have done what had to be done, else we would be counting the dead in millions, not thousands.

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Re:What do you mean Dave - they would be better off if the terrorists didn't cause these attrocities
Mar 2, 2004 12:15PM PST

Hi, Steve.

>>It was just a question of time before he acquired just that.<<
Give me a break -- you don't STILL believe that nonsense, do you? David Kay says there was absolutely no evidence that Saddam had a nuclear weapons program -- i had apparently been dismantled in the mid-90's. And if you want a link, just look up "Kay Iraq nuclear" on Google, and you'll find lots -- I won't waste myt time.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Only half answered as usual Dave - You can answer to the first part now -
Mar 3, 2004 4:50AM PST

and I am stunned to think that you think a country should be run by an evil and mad dictator,

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Why be 'stunned'? He already said he will vote for Kerry. (NT)
Mar 2, 2004 11:43PM PST
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Your absolutely right there D.E - I won't bother either :(
Mar 2, 2004 8:03AM PST

NT

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That is sure some link to 'rely' on for any kind of accuracy...
Mar 2, 2004 11:41PM PST

but of course you wouldn't feel that the "Iraqi Freedom Party" was out of touch with reality as your own imagination works the same way.

The vast majority of those dead "civilians" are like many Democrit voters--dead and buried years or decades ago but always ready to be propped up and counted for their party.

You apparently believed Nikita's stories of Americans too?

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Re:Re: Thousands upon thousands of Iraqi citizens killed -- not just by Alliance, though.
Mar 3, 2004 1:29AM PST

I'll not dispute the deaths are higher than some would portray, but after looking at the Iraq Body Count website during another thread, I have reservations about their total also. I suspect theirs is just as likely to be high as some others are low.

The possibility of a civil war is a grim reality. And it would have existed sooner or later when Saddam died or overcome some other means. That doesn't mean we have no responsibility, but it does bear remembering.

"...living in tyranny is usually preferable to dying in lawless anarchy, under the "lesser of two evils" principle."

I recognize what you're saying. But people throughout history have chosen otherwise. Granted, this time change was bought about from outside interference and not an internal revolt.

While I hope that things are better post occupation than under Saddam, even then I think the fractions are going to be violent for years.

It'll be a long debate about whether they are better or not. And while that has been claimed as a good results of the war, it never was the main motivation, and I don't think anyone will claim it was at the time. Even if we haven't found WMD, at the time our and other intelligences around the world thought they existed still. Some types had been used before and weren't accounted. Others were feared to be developed since the initial defeat of Iraq. A lot of people and groups agreed the danger was real.

Hindsight is 20/20, but too late to make decisions on.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Re: Thousands upon thousands of Iraqi citizens killed -- not just by Alliance, though.
Mar 3, 2004 2:37AM PST

Hi, Roger.

>>Hindsight is 20/20, but too late to make decisions on.<<
I agree -- to a point. But there were lots of doubts and questions about the reality of the situation even at the time. Those who insist on a rush to judgment need to be held accountable when that judgement is wrong, especially when there was really no need for the rush. The UN inspectors were in Iraq, operating on our intelligence, and finding nothing. No, Saddam wasn't 100% cooperative, but he was the most cooperative he'd ever been. Don't forget O'Neill's reports from the inner circle that the Administration had its mind made up about invading Iraq from Day One, and was merely looking for an excuse to do so. All available evidence fits that scenario, so I think condemning the decision-making process that produced a bad decision is valid, and not "Monday morning quarterbacking."

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Apparently you forget ...
Feb 29, 2004 7:56PM PST

... a little war in the early 1990's and the conditions of the cease fire for that war that more than justify this current war.

Evie Happy

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Congrats to all those who have participated in this thread - not a single removed post - A good discussion - Thanks all :)
Mar 1, 2004 6:06AM PST

NT