Vista Upgrade Problem - Microsoft have given up !!!

Walt, what makes you think all your software and files are going to still be there, If you dont back up, you may lose it anyway trying to upgrade, You should never do a drastic change in an OS and not have your stuff backed up, I've been doing this for a long time and i always back it up almost every day, I build a lot of PC's and you will get a supprise when you start trying to run some of those programs in Vista and they won't be registered, I have all the RC versions and tested vista for months and let me warn you things won't be what you thind, Well you do what you think is Right I'm not one to judge anyone BUT BACK IT UP Please! Besides an upgrade is never as good as a clean install if you can do it some how! Good luck I hope someone finds a true answer for your problem,

The post above is a LOL clean Upgrade so to speak of

I agree that doing the backup of everything pretty much nullifies the entire concept of upgrading. However, since Billcrosoft somehow managed to totally fork things up DESPITE the heavy beta testing (Of which I was a part for the last two years.) there is a need to back things up any way.

Realistically, I have no clue whatsoever HOW this bug got past the people who do final testing to make certain every thing works. That aside, the extra time it takes to back things up and start with a CLEAN drive, to me at least, makes it worthwhile.

No, it is not fun or easy but it IS a learning experience and we can in some small way take slightly sadistic comfort in knowing that someone's head probably will roll because this was missed.

-jay

Jay

Good point...

Backing up is not such a chore... but when you have to re-install all the programs that is the most time consuming.

Time is precious... I am sure that MS will crack it and I am willing to wait for them to put the effort in rather than putting myself out...

WALT

Have any of you used Vista yet, LOL are you in for a suprise its sweet but not all things will work with it and when you upgrade over top of xp you are taking a big chance, and if you think its time consuming to back up your stuff and reinstall it, well just wait till you lose it then your **** outa luck for good, Vista installs fast, compared to xp,

Walt:

Since you purchased an upgrade DVD (while waiting for the free one from HP), it's clear that you are willing to do this without trying to do it "free."

Purchase an external hard disk. They are insanely cheap now -- I saw one advertised today on eCost.com for 25 cents per megabyte -- a USB2 drive of 320 GB for $80 after rebates.

If you don't have XP Pro (MCE is a version of Pro), then you will need backup software. With a small amount of effort, I found Retrospect, made by EMC, for $8 plus shipping (purplus.com). If you don't want to verify your backup (which I strongly recommend you DO), then just hook up the drive and copy your entire hard disk to it, with the exception of any windows-related items.

If that backup does not occupy more than 50% of your new drive, do another one just to be safe.

In either case, load your programs, and from those programs, load a good random selection of your precious files FROM THE BACKUP. As I've learned over the years as a network administrator for a huge financial services firm, if you can't restore from/read from a backup, it never actually happened.


<<<<<
set rant: on

Reality: You should (yes, that'a a preachy word, sorry) be doing a regular backup of your system -- every couple of weeks at least. Owning that external hard disk is the only sane way to do it. If you have really important stuff (I'm writing a book, as a for instance) -- copy that to DVD and store it in your safe deposit box, or your Aunt Tillie's butler's pantry, or anywhere that won't burn down/flood if your home does.

set rant: off
>>>>>

Once you are utterly satisfied that your new external drive, formatted in NTFS, has the ability to produce all your important files (in my case, I have a directory under My Documents called Internet Downloads and every driver, upgrade, utility, etc. that I get from the web gets its own folder here, so that I can freely reconstruct my system if I have to, and, yes, I've had to).

Then, and only then, you can try to keep banging your head against the in-place upgrade wall.

On the other hand .....

How long will it take you to re-install (and properly register) all your software? Less than it's taken you to go through this process to this point?

Once you've reinstalled that software, you just need to hook up your external hard disk, copy the directory structure back from it to your new Vista system, and then burn a lot of incense (make certain it is Vista-Capable incense) to your ancestors (MS DOS 6.22, Windows 3.1, et. al.) and maybe you will be one of The Few, The Proud, the Vista In-Place Upgraded.

We will all venerate you.

The moral to this story is: not wanting to backup should never have been a subject for discussion -- you need to do it even if you stay on XP.

As my daddy always said


I'm telling you this for your own good.....

best wishes

Im sick of everyone lecturing as to how important it is to back up before the install. If you have a substantial amount of data to back up ...then it is a big deal. I agree with the fact that people should back up when possible.....thats a best practice arguement. The fact is...I purchased an upgrade..and thats exactly what I expect from it. If everything doesn't work after the upgrade I don't mind reinstalling a few apps. If the upgrades don't work then microshaft shouldn't release them. But this is rediculous...I have a 4 month old dell that is supposed to be vista ready...blah blah blah. If you guys don't know how to fix a problem then don't say anything..I've spent over an hour reading these stupid threads and I'm still exactly where I started..........nowhere.

DON'T CLEAN INSTALL.you will lose document files, music, pictures.
do upgrade. take off all virus and firewalls!!!!!!!!!

This was already addressed more than once, where it has been said rather plainly to BACK UP YOUR DATA before doing a clean install.

-jay

No room for a new hard drive... the box is absolutely full!!

If you back on this thread you will also see that I have already tried a dummy clean install by reformatting and trying to install onto the 'D' drive... exactly the same problem.

I have spoken to HP who do not advise a 'Clean Install' as many of the functonality of the original PC will be lost... especially the RAID drivers and 'Special' HP gizmo's

Apparantly that is why they suggest using the 'Upgrade' disk

But it is the upgade process that does not work!!

Anybody remember the song 'There's a hole in my bucket'

Someone WILL find a fix but untill then boxes will remain on the shelf gathering dust.

WALT

Not sure Walt but you may need this Upgrade Utility from HP and also has to flash the Bios to support Vista, I did not read a lot about this but check it out here http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&docname=c00678123 This may resolve your problem, Looks like a pain in the B to me HP is never easy to deal with, IF you fail at an answer see if you can find a phone number to the Office in Califoria, all the other numbers go over seas to tech support which dont know ther buttttss from a hole in the ground, Let me check and i did have a dirrect number to California, If i find it i will post it here.

That link to the HP update page has a lot of useful info -- however, don't overlook the fact that it applies to notebooks only. It probably won't even work, but heaven forbid you should update a desktop BIOS with a notebook BIOS...then, you would long for the days when you only had a Vista issue instead of a 200GB boat anchor.

The link also details the steps that will be performed -- it's a "clean install" using HP's own Vista upgrade. It re-partitions the drives. And it REQUIRES that you back up as part of the process.

Finally -- HP's support does all go overseas at first level, but if you have an unresolvable issue you can press them hard to refer you to a higher level and get a "CASE NUMBER" which is assigned to someone state-side (at least, it's happened for me with hardware), and the person I got was actually in Colorado, not California.

Actually, it was my writing partner, whose notebook went to sleep one day and never woke up -- we lost a lot of data for our book that way, but he's learned that I'm not the most irritating nag on the planet about backing up and making sure we each have a copy of the other person's work for no reason, at least --- and as part of the effort to recover the data, he got assigned to this person in Colorado. When my own HP 8000 had repeated keyboard failures, I called her directly for some help, without a case number, and <<oh, my God!>> she said "I'm not supposed to do anything without the case number" for the purposes of the recording of the call, then proceeded to get the problem fixed for me that same day.

The bad news is, I can't find the number. I'll see if my partner kept track of it; he might not have, as he replaced his returned HP with a Sony Vaio. I heaved my 8000 back at HP and got a new 9000 which has a different keyboard manufacturer, BTW, and it's been just great.

yea i know its a note book link but there might something in the same manor for his desktop

Here are links to Brian Livingston's take on the Vista upgrade
http://windowssecrets.com/comp/070208#story1
and, in this version he gives step by step instructions
http://windowssecrets.com/comp/070201#story1

I wish you luck dealing with HP. Their tech support is dismal at best. I think HP's outlook on technology life is 'its my way or no way, and to heck with what M$ is doing.' My experience has shown me that HP and MS do not play well together.

Too late... I took the plunge and decided to use Partion Magic to split the 'C' Drive into two and then did a full 'Clean Install' on the new partition...

This allowed me to keep my original files on the partion.. I have even got a dual boot..

A number od compatibility problems which I have fixed..

Silly things like Office 2003 updates, scanner & Epson R30 printer driver incompatibility.

So far seems to be working OK... at least have the ability to switch back to XP!!

Thank you all for your help

WALT

Walt, that is probly the best way you could have done it, I have 3 drives myself, 2 with XP and One with Vista, One Xp is a clean Backup incase i need it and the 2nd XP is what i use mostly incase Vista doesn't work with some of my Programs then i can boot to XP for them, Vista will catch up with all the compatibility probs eventualy! "Partion Magic" has got me out of a lot of Binds in the past that is for sure! Anyway glad you got it going and i hope you enjoy Vista, doing your setup this way will let a lot of people see that this is a better choice, until all the bugs get worked out with HP PC's, Good Job
Glad to help, Jake, If ya ever need any help I have done a lot PC building and stuff and would be glad to give anyone some advice, I'm not a pro but I've been there and done that lol my mail is- wgn377 at cableone dot net

might be a problem, I saw on the gateway website that I could upgrade the bios for vista. give it a try.

If the PC is already Vista capable, it should take it unless the motherboard vendor really recommends a bios update.

My Asus Board updated the Bios and i didn't even have Vista on it and it put settings in the bios for Vista, Most Venders have Bios upgrade utilities to keep you from incorrectly Flashing the Bios. Most of the PC's from HP and E-Machine have a secured partion for restore on them, and when Vista tries to upgrade it doesn't know what to do, it gets confused with the protected restore partion and the actual XP install, most of HP PC's don't even have to registor the OS it is already set because of the Protected partion, and you dont have a windows CD so they don't worry about Piracy. The only way to truely install Vista on some of these machines it to Format the drive and do a full install or add a second clean drive, and yes you can do a full Clean install with a Vista upgrade DVD or CD. "ALWAYS BACKUP YOUR IMPORTANT FILES" Vista tells you to do this even if you can upgrade. Use Vista's 'upgrade' version to clean-install
Here is a link to explain how this is from "trilldax42" post from this forum

http://windowssecrets.com/comp/070201#story1

http://windowssecrets.com/comp/070208#story1

OK..so I have used my Upgrade DVD to do a Clean Install on a new partition and all works well.. and in fact this is one of the options that MS suggested.

However when you go to register the product online it tels you that the Product Key is not valid for the install as it was an upgrade disk..

How do you get round this? ... even though this was a MS suggestions they are now telling me I need to buy a new product key for the Clean Install

Surely this is not right!!

Several miles back up this thread, it was suggested that on the clean install you do not enter any product key, and get the 30-day demo install. You can then upgrade OVER that with the same disk. See the Brian Livingston references, and check this link:

http://windowssecrets.com/comp/070201/

scroll down a bit to the section titled "Use Vista's Upgrade Version to Clean Install"

Walt,
Now you will have to delete and reformat the drive or partion that you put Vista on and Reinstall it but dont use the KEY or GET auto UPDATES while it installs, Then upgrade over top of the install and use your KEY then, If it fails call microsoft and register over the Phone, You may have to explain what you had to do but it is ok with them, they made Vista to work that way just incase of your type of problem!

Nothing is broken and I don't have to upgrade...

However Vista is not going to go away and in my business role I would rather be one step ahead of the enemy!!. The changeover has been relatively painless with only a few of the many hardware extras / software not wanting to work... However a session on Google found all the missing files and I am fully functional!!

Now if you ask me whether it was personally worth it I guess the honest answer would have to be NO..

They obviously are still playing catch up as I think have had a daily update of Hotfixes and updates!!

OK the graphical interface is nice and a lot of the external security prgrammes I used to have under XP and now and integral part of the operating system.

Only time will tell if they have 'Cracked' the hackers!!

PS. What operating system does the Lincoln Navigator SU use? :&gt

Walt
I think the Lincoln Navigator used the same OS system as the Ford F O R D = Fix Or Repair Daily Lol! I agree Vista is Nice and it has a long way to go to catch up to XP lol (did i say that) whoops hope Bill doesn't read this! XP is a little easier to use, but i think that is because we have had it around for so long, everyone will get used to vista eventually, I see a lot of the companys are trying to get all there program drivers up to date, I think Vista should have waited another 6 months to a year so MS could get all the Driver and OS info to the program Vendors so they could Build the correct Drivers for all the software, and i think MS made a few last minute changes and Vendors didn't have time to update drivers, MS pushed it to market to soon hopeing things would work out as people used Vista, and it is not as user Friendly as they claim, that's for sure, give it a year and i think it will be great! Try to set up the Fire wall once for out going traffic lol what a mess!