Rant

Virginia lawmaker proposes third trimester abortions

A child being born , crowning , healthy or not Is a living being !
How Dare these folks ?
How would having a living child , a born child , going to hurt the woman's physical health , let alone her mental health ?
Screw that !
Abort the woman not the innocent child .
I am not a religious person , but millions of folks around the globe are very happy that one couple didn't abort their child....

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Reporting: Virginia lawmaker proposes third trimester abortions
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That's the end of the line; 3rd trimester being the

final one, if my math is correct.
Previously abortion laws were being modified the other way. As preemie treatments were becoming more successful, laws based on fetal viability had to be tightened.

No matter, the Bible says we're human beings at conception; interfering with that is killing.
In some places that is also the secular law. In others it's open season.

That will change when the world's government changes. And, the present reasons for aborting will have passed away, as well. House of Burgesses can't promise that.

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The whole thought of that is repulsive to me

We've begun to show more concern for the life and health of our pets than that of our own human vulnerables. Of course my opinion on the topic becomes nil to some as soon as I mention being a member of a Catholic church community. I wish such folks would get over the idea that religious affiliation is all that determines a person's moral code. I've always believed that personal ethics and morality exist prior to one's attachment to a named faith. They join with others who also carry that same moral code. I'm very happy to hear you are also reviled by this but saddened to hear that it's even in political conversation.

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The Bible has the most useful information

on the topic, and goes beyond the RCC. Exists, but not used.
Not used because of human attitudes.
Who can change those?

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Will you ever have anything

worthwhile to contribute to a conversation or debate other than JW preaching? It's tiresome already....especially to a small audience here that obviously isn't interested in it. Browbeating after two or more years should have shown you that already.

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Most people think that what I posted would be

good news. (= Gospel.)
Only you were pained by it.
You would rather see more abortions? Driven by poverty, lack of respect for life, greed?

"... on earth as it is in heaven". I didn't say that, someone else did.

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My point was that it shouldn't be necessary

to have formalized religious guidance in some matters of right versus wrong. Perhaps you've even found yourself reading some passage of biblical text and saying to yourself, "Gee...I've felt that way all along...well before seeing it here." Yep. Stuff like that happens.

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Exactly

We are human beings and just know the difference between right and wrong .
I'm not involved in religion and KNOW that murder is wrong .
We all know .
I don't understand though , why folks aren't excommunicated if they believe in murder or support these abortions. Murder someone , confess and be forgiven , than murder again and so on .
Not trying to make waves , I am still growing and trying to figure out what I believe Shocked

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There are many things we cannot see but can still

sense the presence of. In humans, we speak of our conscience. We can't see it or show it to others by any means but our own behavior. Those that don't seem to have one that functions properly are often referred to as "sociopaths" as they can do bad things without feeling remorse. Such people can be scary but I'd never try to tell anyone that failure to embrace a named religious practice will make them turn evil.

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I hope not

cause I don't think I'm evil but I do have questions ,
I suppose everyone tries to figure it out .
If I don't have a named religion in my life but know the difference between right and wrong and do my best to do right I'm probably still in trouble .
Guess I'll find out one day....

I know these abortions are wrong and condemn those that have them or perform the surgery .
I have been there and couldn't stop it , that still bothers me.....

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Having questions, IMO, is far better than denial

I've found it interesting that in the many cultures that developed throughout the world we find quite a few who've adopted some form of practice involving the appeasement of an unseen being or beings. These scattered folks didn't have much communication with each other until population growth brought them into proximity with one another. Not always did this turn out well and disagreements on the fine points of religious belief became a bit of a justification for war. Many who saw this decided to denounce religion altogether feeling it was to blame for conflict when the real reason was almost always survival and domination over some territory. At times, it's far easier to blame that which is unseen than that which is clearly visible. i.e. The devil made me do it. Devil

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"the fine points of religious belief became

a bit of a justification for war."
A bit of? The Thirty Years War, q.v., was entirely about "differences".
Nominally Christian armies slaughtering each other in two World Wars, with their leaders unable to stop it, or even participating.

That's what people do when left to their owm moral codes.

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Sorry but WRONG.

The root was almost always about power rather than principle. Kings, other absolute monarchs, etc., demanded loyalty in every respect and that included conforming to the adopted religion of the ruler. Though they may have had and interest in the outcome, the Catholic and Protestant churches, themselves, did NOT call for a fight. Of course, all I know is what's out there to read. I wasn't there but, if you were and have first hand knowledge, I'll yield to your personal observations.

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Hey Guy's

Let's not turn this into a religious debate .
Sorry that even I went off topic .
It's about Murdering a Living human being , laying on a table , being kept comfortable , while the mother and doctor decides whether or not to murder this helpless innocent human being...
That's what this is ....

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Another gruesome aspect of this

Early on in pregnancy checks, doctors have the ability to know of birth defects, especially ones that would make the baby 'non-viable'....THAT's the time to decide, NOT the day of the delivery.

Having that baby born alive, taking breaths (via on his/her own or otherwise) makes that child a living human being, even long enough for a 'discussion' and 'decision', and a freaking legal tax deduction on that year's income tax return. It's disgusting to consider that waiting to kill an infant is based on money in some cases, but it's a reality.

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Science says definitely that there's a full human being

in the embryo. Appearances notwithstanding. "Viability" notwithstanding.

The Bible says the same. 3000 years ago.
Facts, not 'The most recent Supreme Court decision says ...'

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Decades ago the Scientific American ran a

piece by a husband and wife team who had researched abortions in several countries. Their approach was as purely scientific as possible- medical sociology- and very interesting. Pre RvW? I don't recall.

My takeaway, which hit me even then, was their last comment. The Japanese have their own version of the animal calendar, and one of the months is said to produce girls who are 'grumpy and thus hard to marry off'.
Abortions spike in those years.

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Life and death.

How can that not include religion?
If we got here from the work of a creator then we owe consideration to his view.

If we're here via an accident of the universe then we owe no one anything. Yet it seems some here think we do owe something. Where did that come from?

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Just a couple of differing opinions about a historical

incident. I stand by mine.

Where did humans get a conscience? Seems to have no survival value, which evolutionists say is a requirement for change. Otherwise the energy put into the change was wasted. Wasted energy increases the odds of failure for the host species. Yet you have one.

Where did life come from? I've asked that question on science forums. Only had one direct answer that made sense: 'Don't know.' That of course is true, since the respondent said so. The other highly educated, highly evolved scientists mumbled and maundered. What do you think?

Elsewhere it was said that 'we all have questions'. True. Tough ones, like Why was I born? Why is there so much suffering? Where can I find good government? And this one, which science doesn't even address (out of its lane), Why was the earth created?
Jw.org. No salesman will call.

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Personally , I don't give a damn

Murder is murder . Your viewpoint is moot ..

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That's the mainstream response.
Happy
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I totally agree....

Planned Parenthood has made billions of dollars from the 'industry' (including our tax dollars given to them by the Federal Government and the ONLY abortion 'clinic' to get that funding), eliminated 5 MILLION lives, and donated millions to Dems running for office last November as well as being a running practice of Dem donations over the years. Now the very liberal States' leaders are scrambling to adopt their OWN laws because they anticipate that SCOTUS will reverse RvW sending those decisions back to the individual States. Have to wonder, though, if SCOTUS does reverse it, does that mean that new Federal funding goes away as well in the future or will a reversal of that have to be written as a new law in Congress since it's part of the annual budget right now?

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My apology

My whole intent in the beginning was to put aside religious beliefs as the only way to understand what is moral and what is not.

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Via newadvent.org, my go-to site for things Catholic.
http://blog.adw.org/2019/01/masks-coming-off/

For various reasons I take the Tran interview at face value. (The Monsignor is not nearly as educated as he thinks he is, but I'm sure he's reporting accurately.)

Pretty scary- takes the 'third trimester' thing to a level the world hasn't seen since the Thirties. Sad
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(NT) link ok
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The governor of NY already signed

the same bill into law a few weeks ago and celebrated by shaming the city of New York's 'shrine' (the new World Trade Tower) by having it lit up in pink to show the 'win'.....what about the 'loser' is this whole sh.t show...the infant? Where is his/her recognition of sacrifice for heartless less than human beings who made the decision his/her life was worthless? For a bunch of radical crap 'crying' over babies being ripped from the arms of their mothers at our border (a practice attributed to Trump...another lie), this Gosnell move is disgusting beyond belief. Will HE be pardoned now with his convictions for murdering living, viable babies be overturned?

ALL of this is because liberals are so afraid that Roe v Wade will be overturned and sent back to each State to decide for themselves that they are jumping the gun and going so far overboard that it will sink them in the end. Less than 13% of our whole population agrees with this, and yet those politicians don't have the GUTS to put something this drastic on the ballot for people to VOTE on. Democracy is dying because of people like this....and they have the nerve to call TRUMP a dictator.

God has a way of evening the scoreboard.....tread carefully Dems...….but I'm afraid that you are so blinded by crazies now that you can't see the plank they have you teetering on.

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One of, if not the biggest, problems I have with R v W

(and I know many women won't agree) is that in no case does the father have any legal voice in the decision making. This, I presume, would include committed couples who were legally married. One could only hope that, in such relationships, each would respect the other person's desires. I'll stay away from such matters as rape, incest, or other "accidental" conceptions. As people of free will, we will always make both good and bad decisions but to leave the father out regardless of any and all circumstances is just plain wrong, IMO.

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It's the reason

I divorced , only years after it happened.. It happened before RvW but the divorce was 20 years later .
It was complicated

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I don't agree at all

Yes aborting a child is like killing someone. It's suggested not to do so but everyone's perspective is different in this case. You can't force anyone to keep the child even if they don't want.

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(NT) Therefore, heart conditions, not laws, have to change.
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(NT) Not keeping a child is what adoption is for...CHOICES matter

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