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General discussion

Vaporware, vaporware: Gran Turismo 5

Feb 15, 2010 1:26AM PST

While surfing Amazon today, I saw the rude announcement on their GT5 pre-sale page that the game now won't be available until November(!) 1st 2010. It was bad enough last month when Polyphony hinted that the game would be pushed back at least a month from the end of March '10 date, but now it's actually another SEVEN months? At this rate, why is Polyphony even bothering to announce new release dates, since it's clear by now to everyone else that they have NO clue as to the need for meeting deadlines. This sad saga has been ongoing since the very release of the first PS3, when Sony had hoped that GT5 would be one of the showcase launch titles released for their then-new console. How many subsequent missed launch dates have happened since? This has got to be the BIGGEST running joke within Sony's gaming division ever.

At the rate Polyphony is going, we may be on the 3rd or 4th redux of the PS3...or even the PS4...before GT5 actually goes gold. No, I take that back, Polyphony will STILL be tweaking GT5 ad nauseum and miss each of those release dates as well, if they have their way.

Message to Polyphony: new cars are ALWAYS going to come out; you can't possibly HOPE to model each and every one for the title release because a week or so later some car maker will have a new ride that you'll wished that you could've had into the game at launch. Just make any of those updates that consumers can buy (for REAL money) as downloads, and you can (gasp) have a hard and fast deadline release date that you can actually meet.

Now Polyphony/Sony, how about getting serious on getting the game to market already? It would be most convenient if you do this before I die, okay? There STILL hasn't been another driving title for the PS3 beyond GT5 Prologue that utilizes the Driving Force GT wheel to its fullest potential; it would be nice if there was a SECOND title to justify its initial cost...or more likely, its usefulness before it craps out from all the dust gathering on top of it from prolonged inactivity due to a dearth of worthy titles.

Discussion is locked

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Pbbbt
Feb 15, 2010 2:50AM PST

Pbbbt, that's nothing! Go ask some Duke Nukem Forever fans about this sort of thing. That game has been like 12 years in the making, and last I heard it was only one or two nails shy of a complete coffin.

And Final Fantasy 13 was supposed to be one of the early launch titles for the PS3, but here we are like 3-4 years in, and it's just now coming out in about a month.

Microsoft and Sony both got a little ahead of themselves this time around, and they dragged the rest of the gaming industry down with them. Everyone spends like 90% of their budget on making a game look good, and then maybe 7-8% of what's left goes into marketing and promotion. Leaving what little money is left to actually work on the game mechanics. Probably the single most important part of the game, since otherwise all you have is a very pretty, but unplayable, mess. May as well have been a movie, because the interactive portion is a mess.

Still... Which would you rather have? A delayed game that is polished and free of major showstopping bugs, or a game that's pushed out the door as soon as it hits a marginally playable status with the idea it can be patched later, but probably never really is.

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Awww...
Feb 15, 2010 3:12PM PST
EVERYONE likes to recite the Duke Nukem franchise as the ultimate in vaporware. That belief in the 'latest' iteration is "just around the corner" died a long time ago. Most gamers stop believing all the release date BS coming out of 3D Realms ages ago, especially since they long ran out of money to continue their protracted, snail's speed development at ANY pace whatsoever. And considering the legal wranglings over the non-delivery of product, the "DNF" initials couldn't have been a more apt acronym.

The problem with GT5 is Polyphony's Kaz Yamauchi. He's too much of a perfectionist and that's the PRIME reason why GT5 continues to lie fallow instead of providing joy for driving/racing sim fans the world over. Prologue was far from perfect as a game, but for a title that came out two years ago its physics modeling is still the best driving simulation for any console. There isn't much of a need to extend well beyond that at this point. Aside from some perverse need to get each and every 'cool' car modeled and into GT5, or desire to make the title as realistic and perfect as possible, what purpose is left in keeping to delay its release, especially since the PS3 online presence allows for a perfect update/upgrade added revenue-generation model?
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While I may agree
Feb 16, 2010 12:52AM PST

While I may agree in a general sense (I could care less about racing games) that game developers should focus on EVOLUTIONARY rather than REVOLUTIONARY, there are far too many idiots out there who only want the latest shiny game.

It can often be difficult to wait, but I'd prefer developers actually take their time to make sure the game is done well, rather than having them push out some half-baked pile of crap. I personally hate that now console games can be patched like PC games. Time was when console games had to be pretty much perfect at launch, because once you went into production on the game discs, there was no going back. Now developers just push out something that's "good enough" and patch it later like the PC world. Assuming they get around to patching it anyway.

Also, what about people who don't have an Internet connection, or the millions of people who still have dialup access only? Even a small 5MB patch could take hours to download. So imagine those people. They get home with their band spanking new copy of GT5, pop the disc into the system, get settled in on the couch, and fire up the game. Only to find it's a steaming pile of crap, and the "fix" is a 50MB patch that they have to download on a 56K dialup connection. So now they have this brand new game they can't really play, until the phone is tied up for several hours.

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At issue is the developer's...
Feb 17, 2010 4:52AM PST

...apparent need to model and put every new car into this title. For instance, I've already seen the new Ferrari 458--albeit rather rough--in virtual form for the game, and this is a car that was only release for consideration by the motoring press a few months ago. But hey, Polyphony just HAD to have it in the game at launch anyways. I still say that as new (real) cars come to market, Sony could work the virtual versions of those as upgrades to the game as Polyphony finishes up each game model. At last count, there are supposed to be well over 1000(!) different autos already modeled and incorporated into the game; why is there this perverse need to try to add even more?

The 360 has had Forza 3 since last fall, and it's done quite well for the Microsoft franchise. GT5 was supposed to be Sony's counter-attack last Christmas, but now they're stuck with waiting until THIS Christmas for a response, and even then it's officially only a "maybe"? (This time around, Sony will not commit to a hard date). The PS3 has been doing better of late from a sales standpoint, but it still lags behind; it would behoove Sony to kick Polyphony's rear and tell them to get their act together. I read an article that said that Polyphony has already spent at least $60 MILLION so far (as of last month) in developing Gran Turismo 5. Small wonder that the PS3 brand continues to bleed red for Sony with payouts like that. If one were to guess at the margins Sony gets per copy upon release (after the retailers, distributors and assorted middlemen get their chunk of flesh, too), I'd say that they would have to sell close to 2 million copies at full price before they even start thinking about turning any profit from the title that can justify their continued subsidies for the PS3 hardware that they're still losing money on.

As for download updates: considering that the PS3 (as well as the 360 and Wii) are designed with broadband connections specifically in mind, the length of and the time it takes for any updates or upgrades should not be a significant issue. I'd still say it would be better that as new cars are modeled (Sony in the past has claimed that each car takes about a year to complete a virtual model of to Polyphony's standards), and bundle them up for SALE through their PS3 Online service.

The Gran Turismo franchise has a large, dedicated following. And yes we do want the game to be as realistic a simulation as possible. But enough with the delaying tactics already. There's no such thing as perfection, especially to a gamer, so Polyphony should stop trying to achieve the unachievable.