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General discussion

Used game restriction--would you still buy new consoles?

Apr 2, 2012 9:52AM PDT

To give you some context to this poll, read this blog here:
Friday Poll: Used games a no-go on PlayStation 4?

If Sony or Microsoft goes through with used game restrictions, will you still buy their new consoles?

-- Yes. I don't mind paying for new games.
-- No way. I can't (or don't want to) pay for all new games.
-- Maybe, but only if a must-have game comes out for the consoles.
-- Eventually. I'll wait to see if a workaround is developed.
-- Other. (What is it?)

Discussion is locked

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Used Game restrictions
Apr 3, 2012 10:03AM PDT

I don't play games but I don't believe anybody should be forced to buy new of any product.
As a pensioner I buy used goods often and like many families with children,who I suspect buy the bulk of of these games, just can't afford new prices all the time.<div>
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And the next one -- right in here!
Apr 3, 2012 2:23PM PDT

If they get away with this, there'll be a firmware upgrade and when you try to sell your hardware after upgrading to the next box (ps5?) , you'll find that a second-hand box won't play any games at all ('cause they claim that the firmware was only licenced to the first user and the fee for a new licence will be near the price of a new box!)

Ain't planned obsolescence grand!

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When will it end
Apr 3, 2012 10:11AM PDT

I'll tell you what, this issue is one of such frustration to me. I have stopped purchasing software all together short of what comes with my mac or pc or i can get open source online. Why would anyone pay to purchase something you don't own. apple app store, play store, they all are fronts to "sell" you something you can't own. And this is the way everything is going. what if every thing you own today you couldn't sell, lend, or do with it what you pleased. Your house came with furniture and when you wanted to move you just bought a new one and a company kept the old one because you werent allowed to sell/ rent it out, everything you bought would be new at what ever price the manufacture of that product saw fit. the fact that we dont actually own our software and media anymore is a farce and a slippery slope towards a sad world.

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Welcome to the new socialism that bankrupted the USSR.
Apr 3, 2012 11:51PM PDT

That ius the way the old USSR was. You owned nothing except your clothes, furniture and maybe car.
Sorry to enter the political worl here but it does bear on this subject.

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No freakin way!
Apr 3, 2012 11:41AM PDT

I just joined the fray of XBOX 360 owners this past Christmas after sitting the fence for years. I bought eight games for it, only one of which was used, but that I was dying to play. The other seven were all used. I also rented one (Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3). If I had to buy that game to try it out, I'd have been flamingly angry. I hated that game.

I never play bootlegged games, and new or used, always buy my own copy and don't try to defeat copy protection and neither do the vast majority of players. You don't treat your customers like criminals! At least, not if you want them to remain your customers.

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Rediculous
Apr 3, 2012 11:45AM PDT

I would be willing to accept that the PS4 will not play PS 1 or PS2 games. I am not willing to accept the PS4 not playing used games (how is it possible for them to know if a write-only disc is used or not? Online registration I imagine. Which means people will not be able to play a newly bought game if they don't have high-speed internet access, which eliminates a TON of people still). I have refused to buy almost any games at $60 unless I know for sure that it's good, or it's part of a trusted franchise (EA Sports games, CoD, etc.). The only way this becomes acceptable is if the next-gen games only cost $30 when they're newly released.

Sony, Microsoft, and the other game developers need to understand that if they take something away, they need to be willing to give us something in return.

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PC Games going that way also
Apr 4, 2012 12:01AM PDT

My son bought me a new Bethsede PC game for christmas. I installed it played about ten minutes and hated it. Gave it back.
He can't play it because through Steam it is registered to my computer. Useing all my login user name passwords ECT. it still won't because not my computer ID.
Steam has no way of contacting either except on line through thier site and they won't answer him or me.
Do not buy Steam games.

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And we see what happens when copywrighters go viral!
Apr 3, 2012 12:38PM PDT

I don't consol game (can't/won't afford the high price), but my grandsons do and thier divorced mother cannot afford the price of new games that the boys may or may not like.
How many parents are rich enough to spend $40 -$60+ just to see if the game is worth playing?
If we spend the money and don't like the game will Sony, Microsoft ECT. refund the money?

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What a scam!
Apr 3, 2012 5:05PM PDT

First of all, this isn't really about so-called "lost sales" from rentals or people reselling used games. Rental games (as well as movies) are purchased from the studios at a much higher price than retail, in order to account for the revenue made from renting them out. Likewise, used games don't really affect the market for new games, because most people keep their games for a long time, and by the time they sell them, the publisher no longer sells the game anymore.

What this is REALLY about is a thinly disguised attempt to get people to pay for the same exact game again and again--whether they upgrade to a newer-generation console, or purchase a similar unit to replace one which has failed. If publishers and console vendors could link each copy of a game to a single console unit, then that is exactly what would occur. I am unsure if such a usage model is even legal, as most PC software vendors will allow a reactivation on a different computer in case the computer is replaced, or the user resells the program.

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Used Games Play A Role...
Apr 3, 2012 11:36PM PDT

I think used games play some roles for the industry. I play used games when a sequel is about to come out and I want to get into the series. I did this with Mass Effect to get ready for Mass Effect 2. I play used games that initially flopped because of bad reviews that was later found to be too harsh.(2nd chance) The final reason I play used games is that I simply overlooked the game playing other titles during the rush. If this restriction is enforced there's not enough money for all the developers and reviews of games will become much harsher. XBOX and PS isn't going to constantly make these gamesavailable for download.

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This could work...*IF* it's done right
Apr 3, 2012 11:47PM PDT

I have no doubt that the video game industry is losing money on used games. That being said, they need to come up with a fair way of doing this or else it will blow up in their face. I suggest giving new releases an "exclusive tag" that lasts 6 months from the release date. Games would be coded with this date and verified exclusive to your console until the 6 months is over. At that point the digital rights management would expire and the owner would be free to sell/trade/buy used games without any problems.

So if someone is dying to get the new Call of Duty game, then they HAVE to pay for it. But those who are patient or can't afford $60 games have the option to wait for a better price on a used copy or "older" game.

Another idea would be to substantially lower the price of digital games. New CD's are like $13, but iTunes will sell you the album for $10 since there's no packaging and they know you can't resell it. Amazon sells Kindle books for 2/3rds of the price as paperbacks. Again....they know you're not gonna resell it. If the new Grand Theft Auto was only $40 the day it came out, I'd still buy it even if I couldn't resell it in the future. The initial savings would make up for it.

Just my 2 cents.

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It'll never happen
Apr 4, 2012 1:15AM PDT

It'll never happen at a console level. Certain publishers might do it, but the console makers don't really have the luxury of kicking GameStop and other used game sellers in the teeth like that. Look at all the energy that went into picking apart the locks on the PS3 when Sony removed the OtherOS function, not to mention there was a lawsuit filed (win or lose, it's bad PR and expensive). In the PC world, when morons like Ubisoft started requiring this always on Internet connection, people broke that before a lot of the games even went on sale.

It's probably too much to ask that the entertainment industry as a whole pull its head out of its **** and realize that if they stopped trying to repackage the same tired garbage, people might be willing to pony up their hard earned cash for it. If the music industry stopped shoveling money into these flavor of the week one-hit wonder bands/artists, and focused on artists/groups with some real talent beyond being a piece of meat for people to oogle on stage in skimpy outfits, imagine how many more CDs they could sell. Then there's the fact that if Napster taught us anything, it's that people want digital distribution of music. The CD is something like 30 years old now, but the music industry clings to it white knuckled talking about how they'll pry it from their cold dead hands. Well, that might be sooner than they think if they don't make some sweeping changes soon.

Then there's the movie industry which has apparently reached a new level of lazy and started making movies based on comic books. Never mind that the "origin story" for most comic book heroes is complete ill suited to movie format, since by the time you tell the back story, there's maybe 20 minutes left for the actual movie. Or the fact that they spend all their money on special effects. Not to sound like some artsy film snob, I enjoy a good gun fight, car explosion, etc as much as the next guy, but you still need at least a semi-coherent plot, and actors with at least a modicum of talent beyond just angry and goofy moron.

The TV side of the movie industry has just gone more and more to these throw away "reality" shows, which says quite a bit about the bankruptcy of our culture given how every time you think they can't possibly sink any lower with the premise of the show, they do. Slowly dying off are the quality scripted shows. Then, at least in the US, the commercial breaks every 5 minutes have destroyed our collective attention span, so we're lucky if we can keep hold of the plot for an entire half hour sitcom, never mind serial dramas where every episode is like another chapter in a book. The fact that Seinfeld, the self-styled show about nothing, did so well is just proof of that.

Which brings us to the video game industry, where probably ever since the N64/PSX days, where it started becoming more and more about the graphics, the actual game portion of the game gets less and less attention. The PS3 and 360 really accelerated this in a big way. How many games are there out there which look absolutely fantastic, but are completely unplayable because the controls are so sloppy? Or once you get past the nice looking graphics, there's no real plot to the game, or the game is over in 5-6 hours? They'd be better off as a kind of animated movie than a video game. I won't even get into sports games where every year it's basically the same game, just a few names and stats have been changed.

Nintendo largely focused on the gameplay with the Wii, and it was a runaway success for the company. There were some obvious teething pains as developers wrapped their head around this new model, but look at how fast Sony and Microsoft tried to copy what Nintendo was doing. Sony copied Nintendo almost exactly, while Microsoft at least took it upon themselves to advance the basic idea a bit.

Then there's the policy virtually every one of these industries has adopted to some degree or another, and that is treating its customers like criminals. That one has never made sense to me. People who actually purchase the legal copy of some product end up with a significantly worse experience than the people who pirate it with all the DRM garbage stripped out. These companies complain about all the money they lose to piracy, and I have a certain level of sympathy to that argument, but short of giving your product away, piracy is just a cost of doing business. It's the same as all the crazy lawsuits that will inevitably be filed against you if you're a large successful company. Even if the majority of then have absolutely no merit, you need to budget accordingly. However, when a company spends $50,000 or whatever it is to license some DRM technology, then bemoans how much it costs to develop games, I stop bothering to listen. If you took that $50K for the DRM software and put that back into the game development, then just maybe you'd come up with a game people would consider to be worth plunking down some money for. And instead of devoting 90% of the game budget to graphics, maybe flip that around. Create a really fun game with an engaging story and tight responsive controls. Graphics should be a secondary, or even tertiary concern. I would also be willing to bet that people would settle for lower quality graphics if game developers had a realistic physics engine as well, not just simple rag doll physics. If you look at Final Fantasy XIII compared to several other games that have come out since, you notice how lifelike a lot of the character movements are in FFXIII. Right down to little things, where it actually looks like the character is holding onto a ledge or something in the environment. It's not perfect, but it helps create the illusion that allows you to lose yourself in the game. The Uncharted series also comes to mind, where the character dialog is just so natural seeming, that there are times where you might forget you're playing a game and not watching a movie. Again, the graphics are probably only average, but the gameplay and engaging story make all the difference. For that matter, despite the rather crap ending to Mass Effect 3, you've got to admit that aside from the annoying ammo thing they introduced in ME2, the combat in ME3 was honed pretty much to perfection. So virtually everything leading up to the end was a great game.

It would be nice, if just for once, there was a major industry out there that would admit to having its head up its **** and not listening to what customers want. Then of course the next crucial step is to actually start listening to what customers want and letting that be reflected in new products.

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short sighted idiocy
Apr 4, 2012 4:12AM PDT

so basically Sony wants us to rebuy all of our games every time a console dies? not going to happen. Find a way to link the play disk to my user account as I already do with PC games and I can tolerate this. Otherwise I'm not buying a console where all my purchased games will be unplayable if the console dies or an upgraded version is available (Phat to slim PS3)

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there is always someone with more money than brains
Apr 4, 2012 8:59AM PDT

Do you buy, rent or lease your console? I thought I buy them. Would I buy a car and then agree to pay some manufacturer a fee every time someone started the horrible gasoline fueled carbon belching beast engine? Well some have more money than brains and they are the ones that ruin things for every one else.
If I buy it the it's mine. I do not give not one hot Skippy Hippity hop what some small print users agreement says. I bought it, I own it and I'll do with it what I please including using a borrowed game. By the way, If it don't play then I consider it to be defective and the line at Walmart or Best Buy can never be to long for me to stick it to Sony / Microsoft! Don't let then sell you down the river or creek without a paddle. The mfgr may not listen but the sellers will. Sony / Microsoft can build anything they want but if companies like Walmart or Best Buy wont sell the consoles, what are they gonna do. You know retailers will listen even when mfgrs won't. Tell the retailers you won't buy at any price then stick to it! Otherwise you may just as well give Sony / Microsoft a free draw on your bank account.

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So there is some relationship of $ and brains?
Apr 4, 2012 9:17AM PDT
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Enough Is Enough!! Just Say NO!!
Apr 7, 2012 10:22AM PDT

Enough is enough. These big money concerns must be reined in. They seem to think that their big money is justification to do and get away with anything they want. The only way to get them to change is to hit them HARD in their bank accounts.

Since Sony tried their rootkit attack on law abiding consumers who were guilty of nothing wrong I have bought nothing from any of their brand names.

Now I say to everyone ... Just say NO!!! Boycott ALL Sony products, not just game consoles, in all of their product lines and associated brand names. Everyone must participate in the boycott or it will be ineffective because they will not listen until it costs them big money. Broadcast to everyone you know and advertise to that Sony must be boycotted. This needs to go viral.

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i reckon....
Apr 17, 2012 11:29AM PDT

that if the ps4 and xbox _ _ _ (whatever its gonna be called) are going to use bluray disks for there games, that it should allow preowned games for many reasons. but, if there is a new type of disk, i don't really care. this is why i like bluray disks, and also why games should be kept preowned.

1. blurays are hard to scratch

2. without preowned games, the game stores and the dvd stores>(borrowing games for money) will go bankrupt because they arnt getting enough games in.

3. how much better can you get than high definition?

4. preowned games are much cheaper than new ones.

5. we are saving the environment if we buy preowned copies, and not brand new ones.

6. there will be more scams on eBay and other web shops because of people saying that the disk is brand new and hasn't been put into a console, when its been used heaps of times. i mean, how are you meant to know unless you wanna go to there place and bring your PS3 or Xbox there and put the game in yourself?

im sure u guys can think up of more ideas, but this is just to start u guys off.

sincerely runescape_guy

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Used game restriction--would you still buy new consoles
Apr 19, 2012 1:48PM PDT

No, I won't. I would prefer other free games

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Other
May 11, 2012 8:48AM PDT

I would get such a console if and only if the new-only restriction was for specific, special in-game bonuses, such as getting the Catwoman levels in Arkham City or the various Special Editions of different games which grant any number of fancy bonuses, costumes, or whatever else. Lock out everything used, especially if nobody finds a workaround, and I'll boycott. Gaming is just getting too expensive these days even with used copies... I tend to prefer free-to-play nowadays anyways.