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Upgrading CPU, now nothing?

by Dkt_Gases / January 5, 2005 7:33 AM PST

I bought a new P4 3.2E Ghz about 3 hours ago. I just now got around to putting it in.. I installed the CPU + the heatsink it came with. I read the mobo book, once I install the cpu, I'm suppose to go into the BIOS and enable the HTT. Well I can't, once I turn the pc on.. I just get a black screen and NOTHING else at all? The monitor power light just blinks every 3 seconds.

I'm stuck on what to do :(.. I put the old CPU/heatsink in.. And it works, but of course I get the screen about it finding a new CPU, with the old CPU in.. I then checked to see if I could enable the HTT that way.. But I can't because the CPU doesn't support it... I have the newest BIOS on the PC.

Here's my specs...

P4 2.0ghz
80gb hd maxtor
radeon 9600 pro
19" monitor
P4P800S-X Motherboard

I'm trying to install a new P4 3.2E Ghz.

I'm hoping it's just something simple, don't have money left to take it to a tech or anything lol.

Any help would be great!

Thanks, Tyler.

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Do you have DDR400 RAM?
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / January 5, 2005 7:52 AM PST

How about a whopper power supply?

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oops
by Dkt_Gases / January 5, 2005 7:53 AM PST

Yes, I have 512 DDR400 ram.. 450 PSU.

When I take the new CPU out, and put my old one in.. It all works?

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And the DDR400 RAM. 1 stick or 2?
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / January 5, 2005 8:01 AM PST
In reply to: oops
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1 stick of ram
by Dkt_Gases / January 5, 2005 8:08 AM PST

CMOS RESET... How do I do this?

I'm not sure what I'm looking for on that site? :-s

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Ram Help
by tymeracer / January 5, 2005 8:55 AM PST
In reply to: 1 stick of ram

CMOS jumper is a two prong pin on M/B,remove to reset ,then put date time back in BIOS usually in standard CMOS section of BIOS.see M/B Manual.2nd go to Intel site and locate New CPU specs.it will also list Compatable RAM.for your CPU,not all works when u go 800MHZ..as I've found out!..hope this helps!

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Manual
by Dkt_Gases / January 5, 2005 9:19 AM PST
In reply to: Ram Help

I followed the instructions in the MB manual, step by step. It is still doing the same...blank screen.

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WIth one stick... You'll lose speed.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / January 5, 2005 9:06 AM PST
In reply to: 1 stick of ram

To get the 800MHz FSB for this P4, you need MATCHED PAIRS of RAM.

Bob

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Robert are you sure of this??.
by Ray Harinec / January 5, 2005 9:20 AM PST

Everything that I read [and have one] will give 800 MHz FSB with single or dual channel memory. With dual Channel one simply gets higher memory bus bandwidth. Yes faster but the FSB is 800 MHz either way.

The bus from the MCH to the CPU is quad pumped either way.

As far as I can see with dual channel there is a second quad pumped FSB. As far as I can deduce by looking at Intel's pin outs/names, a call to Intel confirmed [but I'm not sure that the tech was that sure], but quad pumping is a group of four 100 MHz [DDR clocking 200] busses with a four phase clocking system.

If you have better info, I would be happy to receive it.

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Very sure.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / January 5, 2005 9:22 AM PST

The FSB is 800MHz but the memory, with just one stick is limited to 400MHz. So what will be the effective rate?

I have such systems and they seem so much slower without the 800MHz memory system.

Bob

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Can't buy that answer at all.
by Ray Harinec / January 5, 2005 9:35 AM PST
In reply to: Very sure.

Dual channel simply provides two independent memory busses to the MCH and out to the CPU. Twice as many data bits but the FSB is still 800 MHz for each.

Unless you are talking about a specific shipset that is unlike the others.

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DDR400 is not 800MHz.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / January 5, 2005 9:51 AM PST

800 MHz DDRAMs are not out yet. To get 800MHz that's what the MCH is doing... Interleaving the access.

About the twice as many bits. Each stick is 64 bits wide today so the additional width would go to what? Hint: interleaving access so the 400MHz DDRAM pair gets up to 800 MHz.

Bob

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Reading two PDF's that I have
by Ray Harinec / January 5, 2005 10:16 AM PST
In reply to: DDR400 is not 800MHz.

[tough to follow] but the one from Kingston shows that with single channel at 800 FSB on simply does not provide sufficient memory bandwidth to utilize the CPU's capability. By going to dual channel at 800 MHz FSB the memory bandwidth gets doubled because there are now twice as many bits being made available to the CPU via the TWO 800 MHz busses.

I don't know how to give a link to the PDF's.

The Intel diagrams show the two separate busses with one not supplying data in single channel mode.

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QUAD clocked it is. Intel has been
by Ray Harinec / January 5, 2005 11:00 AM PST
In reply to: DDR400 is not 800MHz.

quad clocking since they got 400 FSB from PC100. Now it's DDR

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2 sticks
by Dkt_Gases / January 5, 2005 9:37 AM PST
In reply to: Very sure.

I put my mothers 512 stick in along with mine (both being exactly the same) and now it boots and back to windows. How can I fix this so it just runs off the one, can't afford another 512.

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I haven't looked at your mobo, but
by Ray Harinec / January 5, 2005 10:31 AM PST
In reply to: 2 sticks

it should have two [maybe three] pairs of DDR memory sockets. Usually each pair is a different color.

If you put a single stick in slot 0 , or A or 1, it should run fine in single channel mode [does the mobo require a jumper or?? to select single vs dual channel??.

Is you put the second stick in the next slot, you should have the sum of the two memories running in single channel mode. If however you put the second stick in the first slot of the other color you will be in dual channel mode. HOWEVER to function as dual channel the two sticks of memory have to be of the same type with the same type of chips in them. Unmatched the system may not work at all.

In your case, the thing not running at all with a single stick is a different problem. What speed memory do you have, what brand?? Is the speed and CL etc set properly in the BIOS?? You need PC 3200 to run at the 800 MHz FSB [if the mobo supports that].

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Huh
by Dkt_Gases / January 5, 2005 9:21 AM PST

I have only one stick of DDR400 512 ram.

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Dkt. Wait for Robert's reply to my post.
by Ray Harinec / January 5, 2005 9:30 AM PST
In reply to: Huh

I think that he is incorrect only in this case. [Robert is one extremely knowledgeable individual]. The dual channel will be overall a little faster because of the increased bandwidth, but not by a significant amount. I have seen a few articles that give the dual channel only a 10% edge.

If Robert is incorrect, his correctness rate will fall to 99.9999999999% LOL If I am incorrect, my correctness rate will be close to 9.9%.

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Here's a short read about it...
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / January 5, 2005 9:56 AM PST
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Simply shows the increased bandwidth
by Ray Harinec / January 5, 2005 10:19 AM PST

with the two EQUAL FSBusses. Does not show a doubling of the FSB.

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It's a little tough to follow I know.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / January 5, 2005 10:25 AM PST

But how could a DDR400 part keep up with an 800MHz FSB?

My answer is that the effective FSB will be 400MHz.

Yes, it's running at 800MHz, just 1/2 the time...

Go figure.

Bob

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That's a pure copout. If
by Ray Harinec / January 5, 2005 10:55 AM PST

you were correct about it being 400 MHz, then with the multiplier being fixed the CPU would run at Half it's clock speed.

I have two Gigabyte GA=8KNXP systems they both showed the 800 FSB and the same CPU speed in either single or dual channel mode. Giga has a program that shows this stuff.

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Discussion or duking it out?
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / January 5, 2005 11:03 AM PST

Your choice. No cop out here. I'm just a grizzled embedded CPU designer and have to find ways to relate this stuff to others.

Please explain how a 400MHz DDRAM stick will keep the CPU 800MHz FSB bus full?

Bob

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Recap.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / January 5, 2005 9:59 AM PST

We seem a little offtrack with the memory architecture discussion. IT IS NOT THE REASON FOR THE FAILING BOOT.

As it stands I would.

1. Install the new CPU and heatsink and latch it down.
2. Reset the CMOS values with the jumper.

Try again.

My notes about RAM was that at this speed you are not getting the full potential out of this CPU.

Bob

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2 sticks to make it work
by Dkt_Gases / January 5, 2005 10:06 AM PST
In reply to: Recap.

I tried both your suggestions and neither worked...still a blank screen. However when I put the 2nd stick in it did everything it was suppose to. My question is...is there something I can switch so I dont have to use 2 sticks?

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Very odd.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / January 5, 2005 10:19 AM PST

I've only heard of a few boards that required both sticks. Most revert to the slower speed.

I must defer to the motherboard manual, but are you sure you are putting the stick in the correct slot? Some won't boot with the stick in the wrong slot.

Bob

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I Find this Interesting
by tymeracer / January 5, 2005 11:14 AM PST
In reply to: Very odd.

I have an ASUS 800MhZ M/B.and had same problem,solved with 2 512 sticks,the same.go figure? Also is FSB set right...not 100Mhz.

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Replying to Robert's Discussion re duking it out.
by Ray Harinec / January 5, 2005 11:31 AM PST

Intel has had their MCH quad clock for a few years now. It is physically FOUR 100 MHz [DDR now, thus 200 MHz] and each clocked a quarter phase apart to get 8 data read/writes per "clock". Wih DDR 400 it still doesn't fill the memory bandwidth capacity of the P4. Thus they added an additional memory bus from a different set of memory sockets to the MCH and from the MCH added another quad clocked bus to the CPU. With twice as many bits now being read they can use all of the P4's bandwidth. One reason that they do not get double the performance is because in some cases the CPU processing becomes a bottleneck [along with some other considerations]. None of their posted data shows anything close to a 2 to 1 increase. Maybe 10 % Dual Channel over single channel overall.

Thus they can still use one value of FSB speed and multiplier to get the to the CPU's clock speed using either single Channel or Dual Channel.

I'm packing to go away tomorrow for the week end. Feel free to go to my profile to email me if you have any contrary evidence. [Or, of course, post it here]. I won't be on-line until Tuesday though.

Hope that you can get this guys computer working.

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That's the full explanation.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / January 5, 2005 9:44 PM PST

I have to use the shorter version. Maybe we can find some memory benchmark to run to see what happens when I go from dual to single channel on one of the office i865 systems, but the initial runs of DVD encoding showed huge percentage differences. Something (from memory) from 3 hours to 2 hours.

Bob

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