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Unions used to be a good thing

by Diana Forum moderator / April 6, 2005 2:41 AM PDT

Hospital Fundraiser Scrapped Due to Union Spat

http://www.wixt.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=11928045-46D4-42AC-A789-08E94C9F283A

A fundraiser expected to bring more than $40,000 to Syracuse's Children's Hospital is now off and the hospital losing out.

It was a tribute to Michael Bragman. He let out a private contract to bid. He hired a non-union contractor for $10,000 less. The Operating Engineers Union said they would stand in front of the fundraiser handing out leaflets stating that Bragman was anti-union (which he is not). Rather than having people cross picket lines, Bragman asked that the fundraiser be cancelled.

So the Children's Hospital won't get the money and they are just starting to return money that was sent in in advance.

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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(NT) (NT) Thank your Union thugs
by duckman / April 6, 2005 2:59 AM PDT
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(NT) (NT) yup unions are great for the unions
by Mark5019 / April 6, 2005 3:28 AM PDT
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Response
by JP Bill / April 6, 2005 4:15 AM PDT
was anti-union (which he is not).

If he's not anti-union he is also not pro-union. Because he hired a non-union company.

How come this guy needs a "tribute"?

He should have still held the fund raiser and let the union really take more bad publicity. Not cancel it before the fact.

The people can still send the money in by check, the hospital can still get it's money, without going through any information lines.


The money that would have been spent on the fundraiser could go towards the hospital fund, less expenses = more money for the hospital.
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(NT) (NT) spoken like a true union man
by Mark5019 / April 6, 2005 4:41 AM PDT
In reply to: Response
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Without Unions
by ice_bear_joe / April 6, 2005 5:22 AM PDT

The working man would be getting paid just enough so he and his family could just manage to live as was the case before unions while the employers became filty rich.Even people getting a good wage that are not in a union still have the unions to thank fot it.It was the unions that made employers pay a decent wage to raise the standard of living for the working man.Would you rather live in a country where they pay enough so a person can just manage to eat and sometimes not that?

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like i said the unions were good
by Mark5019 / April 6, 2005 6:50 AM PDT
In reply to: Without Unions

in the past now they screw all the members and the companys.

unions arent needed now people are to smart, to work unsafely, and they have protection.

only thing a union is good for is screwing the people

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There was a need for unions at one time. They have now
by Kiddpeat / April 6, 2005 8:39 AM PDT
In reply to: Without Unions

gained power, been corrupted, and their time is past. This is one more example of that. They now do more harm than good.

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(NT) (NT) Read my post friend.
by Jerry562 / April 6, 2005 11:49 AM PDT
In reply to: Without Unions
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Bragman was our Assemblyman for decades
by Diana Forum moderator / April 6, 2005 6:32 AM PDT
In reply to: Response

I worked in a union shop as a contractor. The union people were making more than me and I was asked to review them. These senior people were working at an intermediate or even junior level. Most stole from the company and couldn't understand when I bought my own. They were fire-proof (their words) and had no sense of urgency to get the job done.

Unions were a good thing just like the ACLU used to be a good thing. Unions now keep the wages too high and keep deadbeats in their jobs. Keeping the deadbeats is what I resented the most, not the wages.

Saying that, a friend's husband worked at a trucking company. The teamsters wanted it to become union. they had thirty employees and none wanted to be unionized (there was a vote). The teamsters bullied the places the company delivered to so they finally had to unionize. They just barely made the first raise but closed their doors because they couldn't make the second. Thirty people were unemployed union men.

Some IT people working for one of the railroads voted against becoming unionized and the union went to court and forced them to unionize. They formed their own union and voted it in - no dues, no meetings, no nothing.

No I don't have links, just 35 years in the workforce.

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Well
by dirtyrich / April 6, 2005 10:48 AM PDT
In reply to: Response

My brother is a employee of the Federal Government, and at one time was the shop steward for his office. He told me that in all the time he was the steward, he never had a single case where he felt the worker involved was in the right. Yet, due to the union's involvement, the workers retained their job with the exception of a few extreme incidents. The management simply did not want to go through the long and exhausting process to fire these individuals.
I'll become a teacher within a year, and look forward to my mandatory dues being used to fund a political organization who I largely disagree with. I'll have no choice in how my dues are spent or what platform they support. Yay.

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Not all unions are good
by Dan McC / April 6, 2005 6:49 AM PDT

just as not all companies are bad.

This is the real world and saying that unions are bad is just as nonsensical as saying that all corporations are bad.

Dan

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Unions Had a Lot of....
by Larry38 / April 6, 2005 7:45 AM PDT

Power at one time, and were good for the workers. Now however they have no power at all. A company will close and move before allowing a union. I know first hand as it happened to me.
Larry

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Hello, that's because you didn't
by Jerry562 / April 6, 2005 11:50 AM PDT

have a union.

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Hello Back, Actually....
by Larry38 / April 7, 2005 4:05 AM PDT

I was a member of a strong union back in the 60's and 70's It was a union for Rubber Workers, I worked for Dayton Tire and Rubber which was owned by Firestone. In the late 70's, Firestone decided to get rid of most of the union plants, and closed 7 plants. The plant I worked in employed over 1200 people, don't know about the other plants, but quite a few lost their jobs. Firestone gave us a year of health insurance, A severance package, and brought in people to help us find jobs, at the time I was makeing close to $15.00 an hour.

To make a long story short, Unions once had Power but not anymore. Needless to say I have not bought a Firestone Tire or Dayton Tire since then. I'm now a Retired Senior and doing fine, and feel badly about all the younger people loosing their jobs, especially the ones with children. I worked all my life, took care of my famly, and now I can rest.
Larry

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Yes, with the unions, it was all about playing the end game.
by Kiddpeat / April 7, 2005 4:28 AM PDT

At least in recent years. Too bad about those left holding the bag. Sad

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First off,
by Jerry562 / April 6, 2005 11:46 AM PDT

go back to grade school and read about the Haymaker's Riot, the reason unions were put into place by beaten, whipped and the kin of murdered workers.

I've been told stories that I won't repeat in writing because I can't prove them, but I believed my Father when he told me nightmare stories that he saw with his own eyes.

My oldest brother Lee got a brain tumor next to his brain stem, and Park-Davis Pharmaceutical?s medical insurance took care of him until he passed.

My second oldest brother Don, was medically retired at about age 32, with small children to raise, got food and housing from Ford Motor Company's benefit package until he passed.

Without the Union benefits, both of these families would have sunk. I left a good union job in Detroit, Michigan in about 1969, came South and haven't had a job with ANY benefits since (except for the Navy)

I don't know if you guys know this or not, but not every child gets a college education and a benefit package in their life. The Union offers it to everyone, rich and poor. Industry does not, they want to offer it to the big shots. Why should the rich have all the medical care like the minorities, why can't the blue collar workers have it too.

Didn't they pass a law saying if employees work 40 hours a week, they must share the benny's of the big shots? That day, industry created 35 million part time jobs out of 30 million full time jobs, from the story I read.

When my daughter was in High School, she had to check every ones hours and tell the boss if anyone was going to get 40 hours that week, so he could send them home. It's still that way in 2005 in thousands of food stores, chain drug stores, discount department stores, etc.

It's too bad you don't live in the South with a blue collar education, you'd welcome a Union shop. I'd stand with the picket line and stop the scabs from crossing it.

It's your country folks, don't let the rich take any more of it from you, you all seem to be so happy with the draft not being in effect, but isn't that exactly what money does, the poor serve in the Military and risk their lives, not the children of the rich. It's about money.

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its time to bury that dinasaur we call unions
by Mark5019 / April 6, 2005 12:56 PM PDT
In reply to: First off,

all they do is steal from the workers

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Then you were willing to
by Jerry562 / April 6, 2005 6:29 PM PDT

support my Brothers in their time of need? Send a couple of hundred every month?

My thought is, NO ONE PAYS FOR ANYTHING that doesn't come from the back of the working class. If the jobs my Brothers had didn't have a decent benefit package, they woulsd have run up more bills and taxpayers would have paid for it.


Pleas try and qualify your 'just steal' from the workers statement. We are not all falling at your feet, give us facts or don't bother. Have you ever heard of a Union trying to give you a job? You have to apply for work at a Union place on your own.

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and as i ve seen they want money for what
by Mark5019 / April 6, 2005 10:55 PM PDT

why do i need them in this day?
im not gonna work in an unsafe condition, way and if i cant find a job on my own i need to pay the reps?

and when the union goes belly up where my retirement fund?

and if i dont want to belong to a union i cant work there? this is the usa land of the free
the dinasaur is dead.

let your bros. get a job work any where there able to.
but if they screw up and the management wants to fire them, and the union says oh no well then screw it, if he can not work and get paid ill do same.

in the 40s,50,s unions were needed now not.

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Unions don't give jobs.
by Kiddpeat / April 7, 2005 2:08 AM PDT

Employers do.

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Your right jerry
by ice_bear_joe / April 6, 2005 1:02 PM PDT
In reply to: First off,

Without unions the rich get richer the poor get poorer.I remember the days of no unions where I live many years ago.The employer was your god and you had to take whatever you could get and no unemployment insurance back then
Women were paid very low and men by what the boss decided you needed, single men very little,get married and get a small increase,have kids get a little more.Like I said he was your god and could make you work thenever it suited him.You had a choise put up with it,stave or go on welfare.Back then things didnt come easy welfare was last resort,people got enough to barely stay alive.
It was a hard fight but the unions changed all that for the working man.

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You are smarter and more
by Jerry562 / April 6, 2005 6:51 PM PDT
In reply to: Your right jerry

experienced in this matter than many. I'm just dumbfounded to hear women badmouth the Unions like this. Women were sucked into the workplace in W.W.II, because they were needed while men did the fighting. They in effect dropped the wages all over the United States when the men came home and they wanted to keep the supporters jobs. To this very day, a man can't get a job in Lowes, Handy City, Home Depot or Wal-Mart and thousands of other places because a woman will work for 1/2 of what a man would, and take carp off a 28 year old kid boss, and then she whines about less wages then men Sad I will admit Wal-Mart hires one strong young man to put the bicycles on the ceiling, and one temp to assemble them at Christmas.

If stabbing the local workers in the back for 10K on a contract was the right thing to do, picture the country with all un-unioned workers stabbing each other in the back to undercut the other guy, while CEO's make OVER fifty Million Dollars per year. They often do people.

Wake up, there are millions of Chinese just waiting for the chance to take your job for 1/10 of what you could take.

"Forgive them Father for they know not what they do."

There are three main groups that don't appreciate a labor bargaining union. 1) The silver spoon group that was given a college education, a nice job and all the benefits, and those that worked their way through college or up through the ranks to bennys. This also includes the families that are handed the bennys from a family member. 2) The people that suck bennys from great companies to work for. Companies that are not unionized but have great bennys. The Post office, military shipyards, etc. 3) Those that don't know what they are talking about.

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I cannot believe that you would
by TONI H / April 7, 2005 2:10 AM PDT

comment about women in the workforce the way you have with this post.

Women were NOT allowed to join the military and FIGHT or most of them probably WOULD have enlisted because the pay was a hell of a lot better than what any shop offered, even back then. The fact that women were "willing" to work for less than men is a joke to the max....women have NEVER been paid anywhere near what men were paid to do the same job.....UNION or otherwise. It actually has taken the FEDERAL government to make changes to that, and it's STILL not equal...UNION or otherwise.

If women take a job for less pay, it's because we are realists....we have families to support and ANY pay is better than none at all. I guess that means that men will sit on their asses and let their pride starve their families before taking a lesser-paid job? Is that why men aren't in the housekeeping/maid/cleaning/childcare business....because they aren't unionized or because it is demeaning to them?

Companies found out that women will work just as hard as men for less money.....why in hell should they give you strong whiny wimps your jobs back at more money when they've already found a better job force out there, hon? If we've taken over your market, you have nobody but yourselves to blame for thumping your chests and dragging your knuckles on the ground for far too many years with your superior attitudes. Keep your unions........we women will keep the jobs.

TONI

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TONI, I have worked...
by Larry38 / April 7, 2005 4:19 AM PDT

with a lot of women during my lifetime, and I can honestly say that most women that I have worked with could outwork a lot of the men. They really earned my respect!
Larry

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There's a 4th main group
by Cindi Haynes / April 7, 2005 2:32 AM PDT

Those that worked and belonged to a union, and saw the dues go up time after time while the union lost us wages, raises, and benefits time after time.

Why would I pay someone to lose me money?

--Cindi
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email the mods

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(NT) (NT) some one has to keep the union fat cats fed
by Mark5019 / April 7, 2005 3:28 AM PDT
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Yah, my brother-in-law paid union dues at International
by Kiddpeat / April 6, 2005 1:05 PM PDT
In reply to: First off,

Harvester until they shut down and he got zippo. No health insurance, no pension, nothing. What was it that unions do for you again?

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A question
by JP Bill / April 6, 2005 1:21 PM PDT

If he worked for Harvester, and there was no union, and Harvester shut down, would he be guaranteed health insurance and a pension?

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but wheres the miney he paid in?
by Mark5019 / April 6, 2005 2:00 PM PDT
In reply to: A question

the unions pockets

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Response
by JP Bill / April 6, 2005 2:21 PM PDT

How do you know what the arrangements were at the plant that closed?

OR

Is your response a general statement?

You do realize that sometimes companies shut down, and employees lose pension money, and the employees are not in the union.

And the company takes the money. Not the union.

You don't know if it was a company pension plan or a union pension plan.

Maybe you do, but I don't.

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