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General discussion

Understanding Fundamentalist Rural America

Apr 10, 2018 11:45AM PDT

Yeah, I know, the source is "biased" - but which sources are not? Anyway, I think this guy has a great argument. Living in Texas as I have for decades, I can attest that such worldviews as the author notes are widespread.

https://www.alternet.org/election-2016/rural-america-understanding-isnt-problem

a cut from the article:
" For us “coastal elites” who understand evolution, genetics and science, nothing we say to those in flyover country is going to be listened to because not only are we fighting against an anti-education belief system, we are arguing against god. You aren’t winning a battle of beliefs with these people if you are on one side of the argument and god is on the other. No degree of understanding this is going to suddenly make them less racist, more open to reason and facts. Telling “urban elites” they need to understand rural Americans isn’t going to lead to a damn thing because it misses the causes of the problem."

Rick

Discussion is locked

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People ARE set in their ways...That's a fact
Apr 10, 2018 12:33PM PDT
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(NT) Author....spoken like a true 60
Apr 10, 2018 3:21PM PDT
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Author----Spoken like a true 60's radical left liberal
Apr 10, 2018 3:43PM PDT

I'll begin with this passage: "When a 2,700-year-old book that was written by uneducated, pre-scientific people, subject to translation innumerable times, and edited with political and economic pressures from popes and kings, is given higher intellectual authority than facts arrived at from a rigorous, self-critical, constantly re-evaluating system that can and does correct mistakes, no amount of understanding, respect or evidence is going to change their minds and assuage their fears."

When our US Government and History books are continuously being revised by liberals, our K-12 and college kids are NOT getting a true education. He calls the Bible revisions as editing by POLITICAL and ECONOMIC PRESSURES from popes and kings.....and I call the revisions of OUR history and government education as editing by LIBERAL POLITICIANS. They have totally rewritten/revised black history to make themselves out to be the 'heroes and saviors' of blacks when just the opposite is true. Black Tribesmen themselves were selling off other black tribesmen to slave traders....genocide....to gain power in their country by eliminating competition. Most slave owners in the 'fly-over' States (and it wasn't just the USA that bought slaves, BTW, and yet for some reason, ONLY liberals IN the USA believe we still owe blacks retribution for that,,,no OTHER country does) were DEMOCRATS. It was REPUBLICAN northerners even during the Civil Rights marches and revolution that were going into the South to help them gain independence and sign them up to vote. Johnson (a DEM and a TOTAL racist) went kicking and screaming to the desk to sign the bill into law and he did it for POLITICAL REASONS not because he BELIEVED in what it meant. DEMS and liberals hold Margaret Sanger (the piece of garbage that started Planned Parenthood) in highest regard....and yet her entire mission is life was to eradicate every black from the earth...because SHE believed they were animals and moronic and not worth the air they breathe.

As for the gay garbage.....only a liberal can agree that in order to be totally pc, we now have 112 different GENDER categories to choose from.....Unfortunately, it CANNOT be 114, because they refuse to allow MALE and FEMALE to part of that list. As for the 'it's got to get personal before Conservatives in rural areas can even slightly change their attitudes' crap.....What did it take for BO and the LIAR to change their minds? It was ONLY 2008 when BOTH were running for President that they stated publicly in various interviews that they believed that 'marriage was between a man and a woman'. When it became a POLITICAL goodie, they changed their stance....and THEY are DEMS. And don't give me this crap about how they 'evolved'.....they haven't. It's always going to be 'what's in it for me' when it comes to DEM politics.

This guy is so off track that it's hard to even take HIS bigotry seriously because even HE can't see it in himself.

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60's radical -
Apr 10, 2018 5:56PM PDT

Hi Toni,

Ok, so maybe he *is* a sixties radical left liberal - lots of those guys were right about some things, and dead wrong about others. Some were just flat wrong about everything, too - but I think this guy is right about _most_ of what he says - though, granted, he paints with a wide brush. I'd say it's a fierce condemnation of the very worst qualities of *some* rural fundamentalists - not all, by any means.

As for race relations in the US versus the world, you are right - we seem quite afflicted with "white man's guilt" - whether that is right or not though, is debatable - though most if not all black people *I* personally know would argue that reparations to their ancestors were minimal if not non-existent. Should one race be eternally beholden to another for past sins? - again, most black people I know would say no - though most say it's up to them to decide, not the white race! Maybe similar to how many Jewish people feel about their millennia-long persecution : it's not so much past injustices but *present* they are concerned about.


Margaret Sanger? - from what I've seen from a quick look-see, she *was* a proponent of eugenics, though for her time that was less of an oddity or failing than it is now - there were may types of eugenics, not all of them strictly aligned with the Third Reich. I'm not excusing *any* eugenics views, in fact the opposite - just saying it was way different times, much less was known, etc.

http://time.com/4081760/margaret-sanger-history-eugenics/ < was one of my sources. Washington post has another, plus several of her bios online discuss specifically her views on birth control regarding Negros. Not what you mentioned - evidence for her racism is tenuous at best.

I do not think he mentioned anything about "being pc" about gays - just that they should have marriage status legally - for the benefits such reaps between spouses. You can't say every LGBT person wants to ram "an agenda" down evryone's throat - some do, sure, they are militant and angry, just as AIDS activists found they *had* to be to get treatment funding, back when it was a "gay curse". Most gay and lesbian people I know are far less militant - they just want to have rights like other people and be left alone, like anyone else. We could argue that forever - sure the fringe groups are loud, and angry - but does that not say there is *some* injustice afoot? There are too many to discount as kooks.

As I said earlier, this author paints with a wide brush, he's fervent. Maybe he's a radical to you. Maybe he's loud and angry, too. Maybe he's frustrated. I'd agree with most of that, but though his ire is strong I'd not think it's totally misplaced.

Rick

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His comments about an "outdated" book may look familiar.
Apr 10, 2018 7:33PM PDT

I get those all the time, mostly from those who haven't read it. Happy
In fact, we have quite good success in the Bible Belt, as well in Dearborn MI, which is now about 100% Arab. Both areas have those who believe in God and fear him, usually the wrong kind of fear. They learn godly fear from us, and that they can love him, too.
[On our earlier topic, Islam also has a fiery hell, which it calls Jihannum. The word comes from Gehenna, a Hebrew word often mistaken for a place of punishment and not, correctly, destruction.]
Our usual method is to compare their beliefs with Bible statements. Since the bible was written for ordinary people, they like what they hear.
If not, well, there's always another doorbell to ring. Happy

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But it's not
Apr 10, 2018 8:21PM PDT

the only book. I think that's what the author was trying to get at. What I got from his statement was that we should use rational thinking and modern logical reasoning when examining any code of conduct.

Though some say they are mutually exclusive, I see no problem in having both science and spirituality. Two different spheres that can co-exist.

But hey, I'm just one guy in the wilderness, baying at the moon... while knowing how it stays there. :^)

Rick

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Baying at the moon???
Apr 11, 2018 5:38PM PDT

Honey, hand me down my rifle, the one with the silver bullets!!!
Some of the 2000 year old advice has become known as The Sermon on the Mount, now capitalized. Many have noted that it hasn't been exceeded or even equalled for addressing our problems with accuracy and simplicity. Many have noted that, if we all could live by its precepts we would live much better.
The rest of the book likewise has practical counsel for all the human condition. Given its claimed authorship, should we expect any less?
As I've said, it works for us.
You're perhaps too easy on the Sangers of history. The godly view of mankind is that we're all in this together and on an equal basis - imperfect and struggling.
A creator should be able to fix his work when it becomes damaged through improper use. Jehovah is that creator, we're the work, and the Fall was the misuse, leading to the damage. He will not forget the work of his own hands. Job 14:14,15.

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The old saying
Apr 11, 2018 4:14AM PDT

"The loudest squeaky gear gets the grease" unfortunately is now commonplace for activists....the louder, the angrier, the more destructive you are, even if you are actually in the MINORITY of the group you pretend to represent, the more attention your 'cause' gets until now radical left politicians are getting asinine bills in place, even with executive orders if they can't be legally passed in Congress. The flyover State's population has sat back for tens of years looking at those situations quietly shaking their heads and saying "this isn't going to pass as law because common sense will prevail" and instead, because of apathy, we've been run over by the radical left and the whole country has become something nobody recognizes anymore. Now that WE are becoming louder and angrier and 'fighting back' finally, that same left is 'outraged' and the first accusation that comes out of their mouths is "you're a racist if you don't agree with this or that"....all because we are using their own tactics against them, without the violence THEY'VE consistently used. In the 60's they used bombs to make their case....when that didn't work, they donned three-piece suits, and became the teachers of our children in colleges and eventually and effectively got into the WH itself in order to transform the country more rapidly into THEIR vision and it HAD to include dividing the country far more than it had been for a good number of years.

Think of how many 'causes' since 2009 have been organized riots with blame put NOT on the rioters but encouraged by our leaders to do as much damage as possible and force whatever they want to happen.....how many of those rioters have ended up actually going to jail or being forced to pay for the damages they caused? A few 'arrests' here and there that got NO publicity and nothing else....fines for disruption or disorderly conduct. How many students were expelled at Berkley for burning a building in protest of a Conservative speaker? None. How many OWS rioters in NYC et all were forced to clean up or pay for the clean up of public and private parks they trashed or forced to wash their feces off the police cars or even pay to replace or repair cop cars they destroyed? None. They all scream they want 'accountability' for past wrongs when they weren't even BORN when those wrongs occurred, but when will THEY be held accountable for THEIR past actions? Aires and his wife come to mind from the Weatherman bombings and cop killings....how about that woman that is still in Cuba and COULD have been part of the 'deal' made and brought back to pay HER price?

WE are sick of the double standard crap, and most of it comes from that 'coastal elite' politics and broad brush garbage. I personally lived through the 60's....and yes, the MAJORITY of the USA didn't feel the same way those crazies did, and YET which group got away with murder, literally, and advanced their agenda? They took their anger out on our soldiers rather than the ones really responsible for Viet Nam and THEY never apologized or had to pay retribution and be held accountable for THAT so should our still-living soldiers go trash THEIR property in retaliation and get away with it? Nope....they now OWN the homes those soldiers live in via the Home Owners Associations across the country and force those soldiers to take down their flags because they are an 'eyesore'.

Gimme a break already from the 'bleeding heart' crap from those self-righteous dangerous liberals.

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Quite right!
Apr 11, 2018 4:39AM PDT

"eventually and effectively got into the WH itself in order to transform the country more rapidly into THEIR vision and it HAD to include dividing the country far more than it had been for a good number of years."

Yes, that's exactly what Trump did. And, please remember: "Clinton outpaced President-elect Donald Trump by almost 2.9 million votes, with 65,844,954 (48.2%) to his 62,979,879 (46.1%), according to revised and certified final election results from all 50 states and the District of Columbia." He represents a minority of the voters.

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Oh, good grief.....
Apr 11, 2018 5:53AM PDT

CA and NY are the most populated States in our union, and everyone expects that they would go DEM every time because it's what they always do, Kees. They have never been considered to be swing States....and since CA actually hands out driver's licenses to illegals and use that ID to register to vote, there is NO way to know how many actually voted because ANY search for those voter registrations in CA are always challenged and denied access to by their own liberal Federal and Federal Appellate courts. That appellate court is one that is ALWAYS shopped for by liberals to get decisions they want....until it ends up at SCOTUS and is nearly always overturned there.

Trump did NOT divide this country, Kees.....BO started it with a heavy hand right from the gitgo when he publicly condemned the Cambridge police and it got worse with the OWS, BLM, Ferguson, Martin, Muslim Brotherhood invites to the WH, getting Sharpton on his 'advisory' team. He ENCOURAGED the divide publicly every chance he got and he used his FBI and DOJ to target those he didn't like. Please remember HIS words...."reward your friends and punish your enemies".... When you publicly declare war on the American people who don't agree with you by calling them 'enemies' and target them every chance you get, who do you really think divided this country?

And out of my entire post, you target THIS issue as the main thing you want to dispute? A 1+% loss is NOT proof that Trump divided the country during a one year campaign, when people like BO had a MINIMUM of 8 YEARS to do it publicly? All the while his 60's killer cronies were brainwashing our kids?

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Brainwashed?
Apr 11, 2018 8:11AM PDT

You mean "educated"?

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How's this for an 'education' for you
Apr 12, 2018 3:56AM PDT

California has 12% of the entire USA population, and yet gets 33% of Federal Welfare Funding? Most of the country's wealthiest people live there, and yet most of the 'reform' crap activists originate from organizations there (and NYC)....they swoop in and fund smaller city organizers for riots and 'protests'.

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Re: 33%
Apr 12, 2018 4:59AM PDT

Ask your (surely Republican) representative in Congress why they do that. Congress determines the budget, and the Republicans have a majority there.
Sorry, but I can't explain. He/she can, if you ask.

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Because Federal Welfare Funding
Apr 12, 2018 6:49AM PDT

just like redistricting laws is based on TOTAL population and doesn't distinguish between legals and illegals.....both laws are under challenges to change them.

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a good post
Apr 11, 2018 6:04PM PDT

Only the "right" is supposed to be "responsible" not just for themselves, but for all the "left" gets away without personal responsibility.

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"gender categories"
Apr 10, 2018 7:21PM PDT

Good one! Happy

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RE:we now have 112 different GENDER categories to choose
Apr 10, 2018 7:51PM PDT
we now have 112 different GENDER categories to choose from.....Unfortunately, it CANNOT be 114, because they refuse to allow MALE and FEMALE

I'll show you my list

Male: one of two binary genders where one feels fully and completely male; can and is used in conjunction with other gender labels and identities

Female: one of two binary genders where one feels fully and completely female; can and is used in conjunction with other gender labels and identities


Show us YOUR list WITHOUT Male and Female....
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Hers was funnier.
Apr 11, 2018 6:19PM PDT

Hate to say that. Happy

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Those gay urbanites believe
Apr 11, 2018 2:23AM PDT

in their sodomy folly that a butt is just a larger ******, and not realize how stupid that makes them appear to everyone who knows the difference.

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They surely know the difference.
Apr 11, 2018 2:31AM PDT

If they didn't they would have intercourse with women also, if it's all the same to them. So logic says it's not the same for them, just as it's not the same for you.
They aren't stupid, they just are different.

Do you happen to know of any gender study or research proving that the IQ of gays is lower than the IQ of non-gays? Or is it just your own prejudice?

Post was last edited on April 11, 2018 2:44 AM PDT

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I see a new word added to filter
Apr 11, 2018 6:00PM PDT

Odd, since it's a proper medical term, not slang.

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Don't tell me.
Apr 11, 2018 6:20PM PDT

Rectum

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(NT) Nope.
Apr 11, 2018 6:20PM PDT
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Six letters, right?
Apr 11, 2018 6:23PM PDT

******

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That's it!
Apr 11, 2018 6:28PM PDT

Let's try another one. In a relevant post.
I saw a blog about sexual anatomy from L.A. in which the writers didn't know the difference between the ****** [your word] and the ***** [mew word]. Not the first time I've seen that, either.
Did I tell youse about the New England legislator in the 50s who wanted to ban the use of "communist"? [True] He died, and was uploaded into cnet s/w. [Maybe not true]

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(NT) Bingo!!!
Apr 11, 2018 6:29PM PDT
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Yes
Apr 11, 2018 7:12PM PDT

the reason I say "added" is because it printed OK when I first checked and then later was V***** instead.

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Its worse!!!
Apr 11, 2018 10:03PM PDT

I asked The Software to show me the stylebook, and it said, "Sorry, Doug, I can't do that."

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Urbanites may consider them "flyover states"
Apr 11, 2018 2:21AM PDT

which is a comfort to those who live there, but for those fed up with the stupidities of the urbanites, they are welcome relief to those who consider them "escape to states" to avoid the urban decay, the moral decay of urban life, and the concept that more tall buildings all in close proximity till the streets are canyons somehow makes "urbanites" smarter than everyone else. As for God, he didn't create buildings, but nature instead. That puts the "escape to states" in a better place than the "urbanites" can claim to have. They are simply wise in their own conceits and foolishness, wise in their own eyes.

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RE:wise in their own eyes.
Apr 11, 2018 3:25AM PDT

When you get right down to it...that's all that matters isn't it?

As long as the individual is happy....you're happy they are living away from the "stupidities of the urbanites,"...... while you are stuck in Maryland living with the "stupidities of the urbanites,"...BUMMER....