TVs & Home Theaters forum

Resolved Question

UHD TV Concerns

by Ryuuzaki88 / March 16, 2018 7:53 AM PDT

Hello,
So I have bought for myself an expensive Samsung UHD TV thinking the picture quality will satisfy my every nitpicky needs, since it should be very good.
However ever since I just have frustration because of trying to send over DVD quality content and youtube, and desktop picture through Chromecast, and never can get a satisfying picture, because either it seems too dim, too dark for me, if I set it to show the color range of the source and not the native colors, or if I turn up the nativ colors, I get a brighter picture, but also detail loss. HDR+ mode would provide a center range but it is also darknes the picture and also pales skins and such.
My question is, that I need to live with this, since I should have just bought a HD TV to get more accurate picture, or I can do something with fiddling with more settings I do not understand?
THere are settings like "White Balance" or setting a Custom "Color Space", but there are a lot of sliders in these ones, and I do not understand what should I do with them. Could I get a closer to real, better picture quality with fiddling with these settings? If I could, can someone tell me how? Can someone tell me a setting, with numbers, how it should look good?

Sincerely
Richard Kutsera

Ryuuzaki88 has chosen the best answer to their question. View answer
Answer This Ask For Clarification
Discussion is locked
You are posting a reply to: UHD TV Concerns
The posting of advertisements, profanity, or personal attacks is prohibited. Please refer to our CNET Forums policies for details. All submitted content is subject to our Terms of Use.
Track this discussion and email me when there are updates

If you're asking for technical help, please be sure to include all your system info, including operating system, model number, and any other specifics related to the problem. Also please exercise your best judgment when posting in the forums--revealing personal information such as your e-mail address, telephone number, and address is not recommended.

You are reporting the following post: UHD TV Concerns
This post has been flagged and will be reviewed by our staff. Thank you for helping us maintain CNET's great community.
Sorry, there was a problem flagging this post. Please try again now or at a later time.
If you believe this post is offensive or violates the CNET Forums' Usage policies, you can report it below (this will not automatically remove the post). Once reported, our moderators will be notified and the post will be reviewed.
Collapse -
Clarification Request
What is the exact model #??
by Pepe7 / March 16, 2018 3:08 PM PDT
In reply to: UHD TV Concerns

There are some differences between models/price points. That said, don’t expect SD or typical streamed HD content to look good without tweaking at least a little

Collapse -
Model number, and further concerns
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 17, 2018 4:55 AM PDT

Samsung UDH LED TV with the Model Code: UE55MU6449UXZG. Do you have knowledge with calibration and how TV-s screens and Monitors, and Laptop screens work?

Part of my issue here, is that I get completely different colors when I view digital art on my tv compared to my laptop's picture.
HOWEVER my laptop had a strong blueish-something tint originally, at least I think it was wrong, given by it's blue backlight. I used a software called "Calibrize" to get it as close to "correct" as I could using my eye, however I still have issues about the laptop's contrast and brightness options, which I could not tweak in the way the software wanted from me, I think these settings and their adjustability on the laptop awfully designed from the get-go.

I cannot tell, however. After calibration, if I go to the Personalization of Windows 10, go to "Colors" tab, and hover over the color I have for the Windows Theme, it says "stormy-blue" which, after calibration looks just pure grey for me, and looked much more like "stormy-blue" before my calibration. The thing is however, it looks much closer to my after-calibration, not-as-blue color on my UHD TV as well, and the colors resemble the colors I have after the calibration on the laptop as well. In addiction to this the UDH TV-s colors are still more towards red, and the laptop's colors more towards blue, noticibly if someone who draws and views digital art looks at it.

Sooo, does this mean either that:
1, The names of the colors in the "Colors" tab of Windows10-s personalization options are tied to the original color of the laptop somehow

2, The laptop's original, more-towards-blue colors are the correct and the UDHTV is WAY off(which would be sad for such an expensive display)

3, The laptop's colors are off because the blacklight and the UHD TV actually shows fairly correct colors. (The UHD TV currently is set to Normal mode, without any "feature" turned on(such as HDR+, Contrast correction, Automotionplus, ect), with the "Color Space" turned to "Automatic", and the HDMI Black Level setting greyed out on "Automatic".) ???

Given the price of the UHD TV I'd hope it is the third option but if you can confirm or deny one of these claims with certainty, please do!

Collapse -
Professional calibration required of HDTV
by Pepe7 / March 17, 2018 6:13 PM PDT

Essentially, you need to spend around $250-400 to have that HDTV professionally calibrated. To maximize the PQ for displaying static images/mirroring content from your laptop if needed. Otherwise, you will not be able to achieve your goal. Understand, most consumer HDTVs are not designed to do what your laptop or display can, although some can do it better than others. My time spent ‘calibrating’ as a non-professional but always working with people involved with image quality taught me that rarely is there a shortcut to get the best results. I tended to split the difference by buying Apple Cinema and Dell Ultrasharp displays which killed it out of the box but at a steep price Happy

The other issue I see is that your Sammy is their mid-grade offering and will not provide the same quality images as their more expensive 10 bit panels. Good but not excellent.

Collapse -
Confirmed?
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 18, 2018 1:46 AM PDT

So you can confirm that it is more likely that the UHD TV-s colors are the ones that are off? I would be somewhat content to know this, since my problem mainly is that if I also try to do art, I cannot decide if I use the colors I want or not, because originally, on factory settings the laptop seemed to have very blueish tint to it, but I cannot be sure how wrong it was, or how good are my calibrations based solely on my eyesight...

That is my main problem, I cannot be sure if ANY of my devices show the "right" colors.

Also, I heared about calibration tools. Ones that you put on your screen, and they can check the colors for you and tell if they are true to life, or not. How reliable those are? I know it would not work on a TV, but at least I could properly calibrate my laptop with one of those?

Collapse -
Nope
by Pepe7 / March 19, 2018 3:05 PM PDT
In reply to: Confirmed?

You need to call a pro. Even a ‘good’ laptop display will have variances.

Collapse -
Calibration tool?
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 20, 2018 1:52 AM PDT
In reply to: Nope

How about calibration tools, such as Spyder 5 express? It advertises itself as it will set the right colors in 5 mins. How reliable is that?

All Answers

Best Answer chosen by Ryuuzaki88

Collapse -
Why is it there, than?
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / April 10, 2018 7:20 AM PDT
In reply to: UHD TV Concerns

It appears that you need to have the work done for you so you can repeat all your questions to the calibration tech. Either they'll get it done to your satisfaction or not.

The service menu is there for qualified techs and for support to avoid a return to the shop or service center. I will not enter into a debate here about just going into and out of the menu. I will continue to warn folk about this since it has resulted in expensive repair bills.

But your set and your choice. My choice is to never help a person in service menus due to the problems it has caused others. I have a spotless record in this area and intend to keep it.

Collapse -
Answer
All this can be true.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 16, 2018 12:03 PM PDT
In reply to: UHD TV Concerns

UHD tends to get UGH results when we are not sending 4K UHD content. It's going to be a mixed bag of results and no one I know claims settings can fill in all those missing pixels.

The complaint about HDR and HDR+ about darkening is well done. You're not the first or last that will write about that. Don't use HDR if it's not applicable.

Color Calibration takes time to learn. I suggest using the Disney WOW calibration system for your first attempts.

Post was last edited on March 16, 2018 12:03 PM PDT

Collapse -
Calibration
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 17, 2018 5:10 AM PDT
In reply to: All this can be true.

The thing is I have issues with calibration of the TV by test patterns too. Can you help with that?

Looking at this test pattern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b3***8j4DE&list=PLe89TVpcFflq0roUZoZ6_tOv9QJHQLDs0
I cannot see 17 flash at all, while my contrast is up to the maximum 100(as it is by default) no matter how I tweak brightness and contrast or anything else I can tweak. What can I tweak for "black level"? the option "HDMI black level" is greyed out on all my HDMI based sources on "Automatic" setting, and I don't know of to get them switchable.

I also read claims that this test pattern cannot be correctly used anyway because it was put on youtube, where the color space is different. Can you confirm or deny this?
(It is very off on my laptop as well, on my laptop which can even less flexibly tweaked, it flashes only until 20)

Collapse -
Sorry no.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 17, 2018 8:38 AM PDT
In reply to: Calibration

I don't know of folk using TV test patterns. Everyone I know gets some calibration disc and goes that route.

Collapse -
A different question
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 17, 2018 9:50 AM PDT
In reply to: Sorry no.

Sorry for bothering you more, but do you happen to know, if I use a printer to print a picture, can it be used as test pattern? If a colored image not, than a greyscale so I can see if grey is tinted on the TV? Will the printer produce accurate rgb, or will it produce what the device does? Or it also depends on the type of the printer?

Collapse -
I don't know how to answer that one.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 17, 2018 3:26 PM PDT
In reply to: A different question

No one I know has done this. If you found a web site about doing this, please share.

Collapse -
Thanks for your help, I will look into it sometime...
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 17, 2018 3:45 PM PDT

Okay, I might going to try and look this up, altough maybe not tomorrow.
Now I have been fiddling with the options of the UHD TV for weeks to try and make the picture I send from my laptop to the tv through Chromcast look the same. I think I will try to lay off on it although it really really frustratest me that it is not the same.
I went to this website: https://calibracionhd.com/tv-calibration-screen-calibration-how-to-calibrate-monitor-fast-and-easy/

I downloaded their testpatterns, both the 4k ones and the Full HD ones...FUll HD is 1080p, 1920x1080 resoultion right? The color pattern is off so much that I can barely see the bars above number 90 both in the blue and the red lines, even tho the other four are much higher up.

What I found is wierd: if I reduce the "color" setting on the tv, more bars appear. However, it (obviously) fades out the colors, and than my laptop screen looks more colorful.

Also the colors are still off. The wierdest thing of all is it seems like some pictures would have more red in them, while other pictures would have less red, more yellowish tone in them(compared to how I see them on the laptop screen), with the same setting.

By the way: Do you know what setting I need to use for the BT.1886 gamma, on a scale from -3 through 0 to +3 for viewing chromecast HD content?

Post was last edited on March 17, 2018 3:58 PM PDT

Collapse -
AHH the old GREY issue?
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 17, 2018 3:56 PM PDT

COLOR GAMUT and what GREY LINES that show as 0 to 100% (zero obviously won't show!) can really erase any doubt these are full gamut displays.

If I trip over the article on that, I'll post again.

Collapse -
Edit in previous reply.
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 17, 2018 3:59 PM PDT

Sorry, by new discovery I had to edit my previous post, please look into it again ^^" THank you really, that you spend so much time responding to my first world problem posts!

Also, is there none who can tell me anything for that "stormy blue" windows theme color question? If after calibration the colors seem right, yet the "stormy blue" is not too blue, is it bad calibration, or Windows had the name for the color with the blueish tint of the laptop taken into consideration?

Post was last edited on March 18, 2018 1:49 AM PDT

Collapse -
Seems impossible
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 18, 2018 5:26 AM PDT

I just don't know, how could a professional solve this even. It is really wierd. I view different pictures, sending them through chromecast 2.0 to the tv, and tweak with the White Balance option, color offsets and gains. Whatever I do, one picture gets to look right, than another picture's colors are off...like on one the brown shows more reddishness in it on the tv's picture than on the laptop's. But if I correct that and make it look like how it looks like on the laptop, I switch over to another picture, there the skintone changes more yellowish than it is on the laptop' s screen.
Also as I have posted I have a color calibration picture for HD content with red green blue cyan magenta yellow color rows, with bars in them. The page says I need to see all bars. With the tv-s original settings, the bars in the red and blue line are barely visible above the ones with the number 90. If I reduce "color" in the menu, more bars become visible in these lines....however I put a dvd into the laptop, with a colorful disney movie, I see it also on the tv through chromecast, and it is less colorful, so ugly that way....

Maybe the problem is that I use chromecast 2.0? Would I need chromecast 4k?

Collapse -
The pros, the honest ones
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 18, 2018 11:52 AM PDT
In reply to: Seems impossible

Will talk about your set if the set isn't that capable in range. REMEMBER I DID MENTION I WILL REPOST IF I FIND THAT ARTICLE ABOUT GREYS and how many if not most sets will show screen issues when showing full screen greys at 10 to 100% (9 steps.)

If you want to show product limitations today you do that and dash the owner's hopes this would be the perfect display.

While not the exact article that shows these display limitations (I differentiate limitations from defects here!!!!) look at the videos at http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2896737-oled-screen-uniformity-discussion-banding-vignetting.html

About all this does is completely shatter one's idea that HDTVs are perfected yet.

Plasma came very close to perfection here and OLED may be the next best.

Collapse -
WIll wait your post.
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 18, 2018 1:06 PM PDT

I will leave this open and wait if you do that, but for now I re-calibrated my monitor, and than calibrated the UHD TV-s colors and things as close as possible, even if both displays show wrong colors or whatever....it just causes too much frustration, I would like to put it to the side with this current setup, I hopefully will be able to, although I still have a Gaming PC I did not use nowadays, and it only has the UHD TV as designated screen.
If I have set one kind of display setup for the picture hosted by chromecast, a Gaming PC-s picture, with the exact same display setup, sent through an HDMI cable, should look the same, right?

Collapse -
Actually by using the same HDMI cable and port
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 18, 2018 2:14 PM PDT
In reply to: WIll wait your post.

You would have the worst experience because calibration is usually per port so when you swap from PC to Chromecast to something else, your calibration is blown.

Collapse -
Copying settings
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 19, 2018 2:38 AM PDT

I have calibrated my laptop using window's built in calibration...just by my eye, using the color sliders to try and achieve neutral grey, according to my own judgement. Not sure how could I be sure about that....

Than I "calibrated" my UHD TV's "Chromecast" source's picture by changing settings like Color Space, Gamma, and White Balance.

I would think all I need to do to achieve the same picture on the Gaming PC's port, is to copy the same Color Space, Gamma, and White Balance settings I did on the "Chromecast" source.

Collapse -
Color Space
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 19, 2018 11:20 AM PDT

Today I have been fiddling with the "Color Space" option, putting it to "Custom", and something I do not understand. I had it on automatic before custom, and the numbers are got to begin with are wierd

It is like:
.Color Red
.Red ------------------------------- , 35
.Green -------------------------------, 13
.Blue -------------------------------, 4

Why is there so much green, and a little bit of blue, in the color space of red?
How does that work? How do I finetone this option for true colors?

Collapse -
This is not the correct forum for that
by Pepe7 / March 19, 2018 3:03 PM PDT
In reply to: Color Space

Head to AVS. They will confirm much of the advice you have received here already.

-For high color accuracy, a pro job is required unless you are already fluent.

-A certain limit is present in every panel, and they can vary.

-What you are doing now is not ‘calibrating’ but merely ‘adjusting’.

Collapse -
Pro job or pro tool..
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 20, 2018 2:28 AM PDT

Yes, I guess I cannot do anything more, just draw as it is for now, and accept that I cannot be sure about the colors, and try and set my tv so I have a good viewing experience for movies and videogames instead, no matter the color difference.... and if it keeps bothering me, I'll just try out one of those calibration tools, maybe... or hire professionals but that is queit expensive for me being just amateur, drawing for hobby...

Collapse -
Part of the fun is definitely discovery
by Pepe7 / March 21, 2018 6:49 AM PDT
In reply to: Pro job or pro tool..

I probably spent more time about 4-5 yrs ago ‘fiddling’ with the settings to optimize PQ. It was always great to finally discover the ‘sweet spot’, especially since it varied quite a bit by manufacturer and individual panel.

That said, I highly suggest you spend a few days reading through the general info at AVS regarding calibration related topics, and especially your model specific thread. There usually is at least one ‘sticky’ to peruse before diving into the myriad of user comments. Start looking around here-

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/index.php#/forums/166

Collapse -
Not fun but...
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 21, 2018 7:37 AM PDT

Well it is certainly no fun for me, it is so far weeks of frustration and I cannot find any sweespot, for now I settled for viewing the tv as it seems nice for my eyes(altought I still keep switching between warm1 and warm2 temperatures reading that warm2 should be the "intended" that one movie directors wanted their stuff to look like, warm1 seems like better with whites with me and even so I add to blue gain to fix yellowish tone in whites)

I have ordered a Spyder 5 Express, hopefully it will not completely screw things up but actually works and optimizes my laptop's picture to have the sRGB color temperature(6500k as I read) and right gamma, so I can than say "this is how my drawing should look like so I need to use these colors", and it wont matter as much if it looks different on other displays.

Thanks for the link but I have been looking through several pages and forums already through the weeks, getting mixed results...

UPDATE: A question: If I need to correct white balance from white seeming to yellow, it is enough if I turn up blue "gain", or I also need to turn up blue "offset"? I am asking this as a technical question, because I can no longer trust my eye....

Post was last edited on March 21, 2018 9:32 AM PDT

Collapse -
Another concern: Reflection
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 21, 2018 11:12 AM PDT

I realized, I have another thing to be concerned about if I would try to use Spyder 5 to calibrate the UHD TV-s colors as my gaming PC's screen.
The TV is VERY reflectiv, as much to almost be like a dark mirror when turned off, or showing pitch black turned on. I do not know if it does not have reflective coating, it would be even worse without reflecting coating, OR maybe while trying to clean the screen I scratched it off...

BUT my concern is: WIl Spyder5 Express take the reflection into consideration, will it not matter, or should I do the calibration in darkness so there is no reflection?

Collapse -
Visit AVS and read. Read a lot
by Pepe7 / March 21, 2018 2:57 PM PDT

My knowledge base is not current enough with calibrating newer HDTVs. It’s always good to pause and learn there, along with perusing youtube video fare as such. This way you will not accidentally damage your device.

Collapse -
UPDATE: Finding about Chromecast
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 24, 2018 12:52 PM PDT

Just writing up this update so others might find it useful and it can prevent a lot of frustration for them. I was now waiting for the Spyder 5 Express I ordered, but it did not arrive yet, that is why i did not post here. However,

I have found out meanwhile that Chromecast 2.0 displays it's video signal in YCbCr 4:4:4, which is as well as I know Limited color range(16-235), which means, that anyhow I try I cannot match up the colors I see on my laptop, with the colors I will see if I send it through Chromcast to my TV, if my laptop has full rgb color range. All PC-s, so laptops as well have that right? Or is it possible that my laptop has limited rgb range? (HP Pavilion 17 is the type but I cannot find such info anywhere about it)

Collapse -
YOUR FINDING IS...
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 24, 2018 1:00 PM PDT

Dead on why I feel that if you calibrate then swap another device to that same HDMI port you could be ready to set the set on fire.

Calibrations so far are per port. Not per device.

Collapse -
Not planning to switch anything around
by Ryuuzaki88 / March 24, 2018 1:30 PM PDT
In reply to: YOUR FINDING IS...

I have predestined ports for my devices.
HDMI1 is Chromecast
HDMI2 is Nintendo Switch
HDMI3 is my Gaming PC

I am not planning to switch these around. What my discovery means now is that I CANNOT calibrate HDMI1, Chromecast, to show the same colors what my laptop shows, because it does not show the same rbg range (if my laptop is 0-255 which I am not completely sure about, no way to check)

Which would mean, all my frustration was for nothing, because what I tried to accomplish is impossible. There is no use to be frustrated about not being able to do something that is impossible to do ^^"

Post was last edited on March 24, 2018 1:32 PM PDT

Popular Forums
icon
Computer Newbies 10,686 discussions
icon
Computer Help 54,365 discussions
icon
Laptops 21,181 discussions
icon
Networking & Wireless 16,313 discussions
icon
Phones 17,137 discussions
icon
Security 31,287 discussions
icon
TVs & Home Theaters 22,101 discussions
icon
Windows 7 8,164 discussions
icon
Windows 10 2,657 discussions

CNET FORUMS TOP DISCUSSION

Help, my PC with Windows 10 won't shut down properly

Since upgrading to Windows 10 my computer won't shut down properly. I use the menu button shutdown and the screen goes blank, but the system does not fully shut down. The only way to get it to shut down is to hold the physical power button down till it shuts down. Any suggestions?