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Uh Bill, Josten, River

by RustyDallas / August 21, 2007 12:09 PM PDT

Well, I have the speakers and they are hooked up. My zone 2 gives me radio through the recevier no problem but nothing else. I get radio whether I have the radio on in zone 1 or another source like cable just as it should be. I was just intending to play cd's from my OPPO. Both my high def cable box and my OPPO 981 are connected to the receiver via HDMI. Receiver is also connected to the TV via HDMI. When I look under trouble shooting for zone 2 for the reeiver (Onkyo TX-SR-605), it says for no sound "Only inputs connected to analog inputs can be played in zone 2" Do you suppose that's my problem and if so, are there solutions? I have a second cable box that is not a high def box and is connected via component cables. I tried switching to that box with the twin view feature to see if I could get sound to zone 2 through that box but to no avail.



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by Riverledge / August 21, 2007 12:53 PM PDT



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At risk of sounding , well, who knows, ya need analog Rusty,
by NM_Bill / August 21, 2007 1:42 PM PDT

for that zone two connection.

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Maybe not too bad
by RustyDallas / August 21, 2007 11:35 PM PDT

I called Onkyo and she said that I could run a second RCA cable from my DVD player and from my cable box to my receiver and it would automatically switch from HDMI to analog when I activated my zone 2. If that works, I guess it's not so bad.

I wish I had been home theater tech savy about ten years ago. If I had, I would have so gotten into the AV cable business. Hmmm... maybe it's not too late.


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Hey Rusty
by jostenmeat / August 22, 2007 4:48 AM PDT
In reply to: Maybe not too bad

why do you want the cable box hooked up as well to analog? To listen to radio stations from cable?

To see what you might be gaining or losing from the Oppo's internal DAC's, you can experiment hooking up analogs to zone 1, with digital hooked up as well, and switch between both to see if the player or the receiver has better processing. If the player does, then you can actually consider this "unfortunate" discovery to be a good one. My cdp is hooked up via analogs.

You can also consider bypassing the receiver altogether, and run a set of analogs from the Oppo to the Behringer (I imagine its in the same room as the MA's?). However, very long runs of RCA could be susceptible to interference. I notice that Behringer has balanced XLR inputs as well, for future reference. (where are you buying your cables? how long are the runs?)

Anxious to hear about how it all ends up sounding to you...

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Hey Josten
by RustyDallas / August 22, 2007 1:01 PM PDT
In reply to: Hey Rusty

Ok, it's all hooked up and works as Onkyo's customer service said it would. The amp is in the same room with the speakers. Everything plays everywhere or anywhere I want it too now but there's still a bug or two to figure out. For some reason, I can crank CD's and radio very high (huge capability) in zone 2 but the zone 2 cable box sound isn't loud enough. The reason I want to do that at times is if I'm doing something and have the news on, I can still hear it as I move from room to room. I'm sure I'll figure it out. Then there's the break in period for the speakers. Having no experience, I don't know how much to expect the sound to change. I ended up not getting the Behringer or the Onkyo amp. The Behringer didn't have auto on/off which I kinda wanted so I spent a little more and got the Audio Source Amp 300. It has the Toroidal power supply you recomended, more power, and auto on/off. I was also thinking about how the Aperian salesman told me what great luck he had with the brand.

As recomended by Monitor Audio, I even bi-wired the speakers tonight. Never heard of that before but it's done. All connections were with 14ga speaker wire. The "staging" and "imaging" are very good and the bass is better than I thought it would be. When I'm in that room, I think it sounds great but when I go into the surround room, I'm not sure that room dosen't sound better. Of course, there's a sub in there and I don't understand the differances in connections well enough to know if that is the differance. For stereo, would HDMI connections give better sound than RCA analog connections? Then there's the breaking in thing I don't know what to expect from either. All in all, I'm very happy with everything. As far as I'm concerned, I've got great audio everywhere now.

As I was laying yet more speaker wire under my throw rug tonight, a couple of things occured to me. First, I can never move again. The thought of having to take all this stuff out and reinstall it elsewhere makes my head hurt. Second, at some point, should the mining companies not name a copper mine after you out of sheer stockholder gratitude?

So, I'll play with this stuff for a few months and try to get everything working perfectly but then I'm already planning my next move. "Buttkickers" here I come, baby!


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Josten - Behringer. Cheap prices, maybe good specs. I ran
by NM_Bill / August 22, 2007 1:36 PM PDT
In reply to: Hey Josten

into Behringer, not at a hi fi shop or whatever, but at the club. It's what we use for the PA system. 2 ch x 700 watts. Hey, I'm sure the club didn;t want to pay much. It's pretty much a bare bones concrete utilitarian building. We call bingo, have a few supper dances, had a comedy club recently. Not high fallutin audio use. So I suspect their sales are primarily along this vein.

Evidently not intended for A-B comparisons up against labels like Classe, etc.

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definitely not.
by jostenmeat / August 23, 2007 7:20 AM PDT

but darn near impossible to beat at the price point. If you only got 200 bux, then you only have 200 bux, and might as well get the best 200 will give you. Also, many audiophiles use Behringer BM units because they run at a fraction of the cost of say a Velodyne unit. This includes people with multi-thousand dollar systems.

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I hope that amp is good
by jostenmeat / August 23, 2007 7:18 AM PDT
In reply to: Hey Josten

do you know if the power increases or decreases when the ohms drop? How much did you get it for? I bet at a figure where you could easily have bought a NAD unit.

Sorry to possibly increase the headache... you might consider putting the amp in the main room. You want the RCA cables as short as possible. Speaker wire (hi-level) is virtually impervious to interference in comparison to low-level (rca) signals. And to boot, speaker wire is usually a LOT cheaper than interconnects, when comparing similar lengths. Can you return the rca interconnects?

Regarding HDMI vs analogs. See, the signal must become analog at some point before getting to the amp. Sooo... you want that signal to become analog wherever the processing or d/a conversion is best. So, in a nutshell, it doesn't* really matter between hdmi and analogs, theoretically.

You got great audio everywhere? That's awesome.

regarding the difference in sq. Bass is probably better in your bedroom because it is significantly smaller (easier to fill the volume). Otoh, maybe that's the same reason why it doesn't live to its potential (frequency response issues in a small room). But thats just a guess. Also, maybe you like the veiled nature of Onkyo speakers better? Its possible. After all, many people love Polk, and I find them to be quite veiled. More forgiving and warmy, if lacking detail, imo.

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I got the Audio Source amp....
by RustyDallas / August 23, 2007 11:01 AM PDT

at the great enabler Jr Music World for 299.99 plus something like 24.00 shipping.

I listened to a much newer CD tonight to try to discover the differences between the sound in the two zones. I really think the sound is very good with the Monitor's. The music is probably richer than with the Onkyo's but if you closed your eyes, at the same volume, I'm not sure you could tell the vocals in the 2 zones apart. However, I am listening to the Onkyo's with the receiver set to "Orchestra". Whatever that setting is, it's surround sound. Because the sound is coming out of 5 of my 6 speakers in a small room, the music is very enveloping. I tried switching the zone 1 speakers to stereo to get a direct comparison but the left and right speakers are too far apart to work right without the center speaker. The vocals are not centered in stereo and I hear much more from the right speaker that I'm much closer too. Now when it comes to volume, there's no comparison. The Monitors could probably be heard at the other end of my apartment complex distortion free, much less from my neighbors apartments. In fact, I've got to adjust the master sound control on the back of the amp (now set at the half way point) down as the front volume control can't be turned down far enough to keep from bothering my neighbors right now. As far as my tastes, assuming I have them, from the beggining of the auditions I have been drawn more to the vocals of the music more so than the instruments and I just think the Onkyo's may do a particularly good job on that part for cheap speakers. I kind of wish you guys with more discriminating ears could hear the HT-240's just in case they really are that good. If they are, then you could recomend them to the people who want budget home theaters. I think I paid about 330-340.00 delivered for the 6 speaker set. Having said that, I am not the slightest bit disappointed with the Monitors. I still think they sound great. I am a little disappointed that the TX-SR605 forces me to run separate analog cables to use the zone 2. It works as advertised, if you call a sentence in the trouble shooting section as advertisement, but I just sort of assumed it would take a digital signal and would either send it back out that way or convert it to analog and then send it. How do other receivers handle unpowered zone 2? I drilled a whole in the wall between the bedroom and living room to connect the receiver to the amp so I am only using a 6 foot RCA cable to connect them. I'm out of room in zone 1 so the amp pretty well has to stay in zone 2.

I don't know if i'm not discriminating enough to hear more differance or if the Onkyo speakers are better than you guys think they are but I am very pleased with everything at this point. I think all this connectivity between zones, receiver, amd computer is so cool and I'm not done yet. Besides the buttkickers, I still have a last century TV in the living room. It's hard to say because I'm not totally in control of myself but I bet in year, I have a plasma or LCD in the living room to go with my Monitor Audio surround system. Cool stuff man!


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Well the important thing is that you are pleased with
by jostenmeat / August 23, 2007 11:17 AM PDT

everything. I also used to have an Onkyo system, but the drivers were larger at 5", and the sub was larger at 10". I personally experienced a lot of distortion and sibilance with female voice. Still a good value if the budget is truly limited I suppose. I presently enjoy a huge departure in performace, but my center cost more than the entire htib from before. And yet, my center channel was a compromise in comparison to other parts of the system, namely mains and sub.

You never answered my question about the amp's abilities with impedances. Hopefully, the Aperion guy knows his stuff, and it sounds like he might. Just fyi, you can get this NAD refurbed for $419, and it has 115w at 8 ohms, and 240w at 2ohms. Not many products at this price point will you find with a two ohm rating.

Ok, 6ft runs is not bad. I found that I enjoyed stereo mode better than any DSP mode for music listening, but that's me.

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by Riverledge / August 23, 2007 11:59 AM PDT



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Yea, I forgot to fail to answer that..
by RustyDallas / August 23, 2007 12:30 PM PDT

I re-read the owners manual and it dosen't answer your question. I did find something that says it's 2ohm stable but I don't know if that helps. The only things I can see are that the Audio Source is much heavier, seems to be more powerful but dosen't have nearly as good a THD rating. The owners manual dosen't say anymore than this link:

My HT-240's have no distortion whatsoever. I don't know if that is solely a tribute to the speakers or if the receiver has something to do with that? I have turned them up pretty loud before but certainly not as high as the receiver will go. I have also come to the conclusion that this receiver might be a very good deal for the money. I've had my problems but it sure seems to do a lot well. I think it is also a good recomendation for people on a budget. The one situation I could not receomend it for though, is if the cable box or TV don't have HDMI connections. All the reviews talk about it's analog to HDMI conversion costing some picture quality but I think they understate it. To try to improve my standard def picture, on your suggestion, I once connected my cable box via component to see if the 480i to 720P upscaling inproved picture quality. It didn't do that but it did degrade the sound and down convert my 1080i to 720P. That last part is very noticable. To me, the 605 and apparently the 805 also, are strictly HDMI receivers. If it ever comes up in the forum, you know what did dramatically improve my XBR-2's standard def picture? This feature called DRC palette. Turned all the way to the highest reality and clarity setting (top right corner) the standard def picture looks much sharper and it dosen't seem to effect the high def picture at all. Since you told me that the signal has to be converted to analog anyway before it goes to the amp, I'm not as disappointed with the little cable curve my receiver threw me. Somehow, I've been able to keep my entire little copper mine relatively out of sight anyway.


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All's well that ends well
by jostenmeat / August 23, 2007 1:02 PM PDT

maybe they can name a mine after you, but Im not sure if "Rusty" would be appropriate? Happy

Welp, now all you have to decide is what beer to enjoy with the multi-zone system! Sxrd + MA is pretty noice indeed...

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