#referring to a Vietnam War-era issue of Life magazine, which Nightline has cited as the broadcast's inspiration#
i remember that issue of Life, and if i'm not too far off track, i would say that a LOT of people will cite it as a turning point in the way they saw the vietnam war....
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General discussion
Tonight's 'Nightline' -- tribute or politics?
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Liberals will call it a tribute, and conservatives
will call it politics.
As Josh indicated, public reaction will answer your
question.
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There must be some way to publicly recognize their sacrifice without being accused of whatever manor of horror that bush apologists can come up with.
These men and women have given their lives and there is precious little recognition of them as individuals.
Not to mention the invisible thousands of wounded.
Dan
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I'm with Josh, Dave. I'll record it and see it tomorrow. It reminds me of the issue of Life magazine that ran during Vietnam that had pictures of all the men who died there in one week with a brief description of what happened.
AIR, there was almost no commentary attached, but the piece served as a sort of political Rorschach test, with each side reading into it what it wanted to. The pre and post presentation comments will reveal much, probably.
My one (minor) quibble is: Why not those who died in Afghanistan as well? The answer to that question might shed real light on ABC News' motives...
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air it. They think it is disrespectiful to say the names.
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Did they explain why they think such an unusual thing?
Dan
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Hi, MK.
If you recall the anniversary ceremony for 9/11, a major feature was a solemn reading of the names of all those killed in the Twin Towers. Was that disrespectful? Far from it!
-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
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At the last min. our affiliate decided to air it after announcing it wouldn't. I, like you. felt
deep respect and pain. These people have died for all of us and we need to grieve with their families. We can't put it out of our minds nor should we. I found this presentation very respectful
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Consider that then consider that it was on THE ANNIVERSARY of the event then consider that there is no such anniversary and ALL our military dead in this War on Terror are NOT being named--Just those killed AFTER MAJOR COMBAT ended.
PURE POLITICS and even you should be able to see it for what it is--SHAMEFUL, and shameful that you can't see it!
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Really? I didn't realize. If so, I've changed my mind. I'm sorry Evie, you are right. I can see separating our loses in Afghanistan from those in Iraq and those on 9/11. But not including those killed in Iraq from before the big "Mission Accomplished" thing is only a reinforcement of the assumptions about Bush's "El Supremo Liberator" delusion and his apparent lack of a 'you own it' plan. Political as hell, shameful and damn cheap on Koppel's part. Of course, it was Bush himself who drew that line, but still, I don't see a non-political break point here. I take back what I've said. You are right.
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From the introduction to last night's Nightline, "The Fallen":
"The war in Iraq began on March 19, 2003. Since that day, according to the Department of Defense, 725 Americans have been killed in Iraq. We think it is only fitting that for one night, we present their names. All we would hope is that all of you who watch will take a moment at least to think about that sacrifice."
-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
The opinions expressed above are my own,
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... not a tribute to the fallen ON THAT ANNIVERSARY? This choice was pure politics. And what of the Afghanistan troops? Koppel may be trying to divert controversy at this point by stating that he supports the war, but the rationale he offered before this special was to remind the American people what was going on over there. Don't you think a picture of several lined up coffins for those they had no photo for was a bit much? I did.
Evie 
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... doesn't it seem curious that those who were NOT killed in combat in Iraq were included, while those who WERE killed in combat in Afghanistan were not.
Evie
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Hi, Evie.
I don't think the timing is just politics, but you'd have to ask ABC. I can answer "why not Afghanistan" -- near the beginning of the show, Ted explained that they'd originally planned just to read the names of those killed in combat, but had received several touching letters from family members of those who died there in accidents. As a result, they asked and received permission to go 10 minutes over schedule to add the extra names. Afghanistan would have required more than that, and affiliates get ticked when the show goes long, as many have sold infomercials etc. to follow.
-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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... those who died in Iraq deserve no more or less recognition than those who die in military service stateside or in Bosnia, or elsewhere. Underscores the politics of this stunt.
Evie
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because that is politics.
Although Iraq is a part of "The War on Terror" and was definitely included along with a couple of others by name when Bush initially stated we would go after terrorists wherever they may be and any government who supported them, the far left actually suppported Afghanistan and overlook any casualties there despite the fact that there have been several even after main combat ended there too.
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Perhaps if all of them had died in a single day, as happened on 9/11, then the anniversary would be the obvious and most appropriate time to honor their memories. But since they have died over a long period of time, I don't see how one date is any more or less appropriate than another.
I didn't see the program (past my bedtime these days) so I can't comment on the content.
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Like you do so often I was in a hurry so I skimmed (one should NOT do that as it inevitably leads to posting incorrect information).
That made BOTH of us wrong because You just now posted "The war in Iraq began on March 19, 2003. Since that day, according to the Department of Defense, 725 Americans have been killed in Iraq. We think it is only fitting that for one night, we present their names."
He didn't read 725 names! What Koppel ACTUALLY read was 721 names - Koppel, in closing Friday's broadcast, said that the "reading tonight of those 721 names was neither intended to provoke opposition to the war nor was it meant as an endorsement. Some of you doubt that. You are convinced that I am opposed to the war. I'm not, but that's beside the point. I am opposed to sustaining the illusion that war can be waged by the sacrifice of a few, without burdening the rest of us in any way."
Regardless, it was for political purposes as no anniversary attached nor were Afghanistan casualties named.
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Hi, Ed.
He did mention the number discrepancy -- several names of the most recently fallen had not yet been released. Obviously the associated date was Bush's "mission accomplished" stunt. In his commentary, Ted also addressed the commentary and possible political effects. He basically said that the human cost tends to reinforce one's pre-existing views -- those who believe the war justified see to as a cause for rededication (much like Lincoln's Gettysburg Address), while those who question the war see the increasing cost as tipping the scales to the negative side of the cost-benefit analysis. He ended with something like "but those are disccussions for another occasion." Note that he said he supports the Iraq War, btw...
-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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Thank you to our military. Who can question your heart? Not me.
Thank you!
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The roll call of the names of the men and women that died on 9/11 - was that a tribute or politics?
I'm sitting here listening to the roll call and an in just as many tears as I was listing to the 9/11 list.
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The roll call of 9/11 victims was done on the ANNIVERSARY of the event and named all involved.
There was NO ANNIVERSARY reason for this Nightline reading and ONLY those killed AFTER "Major Combat" ended are being named.
It is PURE POLITICS Diana.
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I didn't watch, but gather that the presentation itself was respectful. I have four problems that just scream out politics:
1. The admission regarding the Life magazine issue.
2. Soldiers killed in Afghanistan were not included
3. Timing during sweeps week as opposed to Memorial Day
4. Koppel appearing on Air America apparently criticizing Bush's handling of the war in Iraq. This is now something I've heard mentioned a few times on radio and TV -- would love to hear a clip of what he actually said to draw my own conclusions, but #'s 1 and 2 pretty much ruin the tribute factor for me.
I hope this backfires on them and instead the American people come away with a better understanding of the price that is paid for their freedom and security.
Evie
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Hi, Evie.
To me, raising the issue at all (that it might not be a tribute) is politics. There was no such claim when the 9/11 roll was read on that anniversary.
>>a better understanding of the price that is paid for their freedom and security.<<
Indeed -- but in this case, as in VietNam, the question ultimately is "was this war about that?"
-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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