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Today starts the fillibustering

regarding all the judicial possibilities that Bush has recommended.

Six senators from either party could determine it all according to a news report I heard last night just before falling asleep.

The last time this much opposition from the 'losing' side was happening was when the Reps went after Clinton from the swearing in ceremony. If I recall, the government actually closed it doors for a while in retaliation.

Do ANY of those elected officials really give a rat's about the people they represent or have they all inherited inflated egos and play God on the Hill on a regular basis now? They seem to be so busy finding things to fight OVER that they've lost the ability fight FOR the people.

I'm beginning to suspect that the answer lies with a civil war again......this time the people against the parties themselves.

TONI

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As an 'outsider'

In reply to: Toni I got treated to a long barrage of angry Nationalism

If we American SE members constantly posted ripping your country and its leaders to shreds, you would become very 'nationalist' too in order to defend the country you live in. And you know it.....criticism only goes so far when it becomes a 'barrage' to use your term.

You (and I use it generally and not personally, but if the shoe fits) have let us know frequently enough over the last two and a half years how you feel about our being in Iraq......that doesn't mean you get to blast the hell out of SE with it on an every day basis just because you see it in the news. We don't do it to your country, although we could by subscribing to your countries' top newspapers and tv stations via the net.

You have let us know how you feel about our leaders even longer than that......SE has become nothing but trashed posts blasting the United States and any leader who runs for office here over the last eight years now. If you look through the history of the posts in SE over that period of time (unfortunately most of the posts prior to two years ago have been wiped out, but if you've been around long enough you already know), you know that this crap started long before 9-11 and actually some of 'you' believed we deserved what we got that day.

SE and its former selves used to be a fun place to be....jokes were shared, personal incidents were shared, tears were shed for each other, well wishes and contratulations were extended. It used to be like family.....it's now turned into a political arena and nobody here likes anybody else very much and it's become a two sided and very divided segregated place of war.

You can talk about Iraq, the United States, and our leaders all you want to.....but SE has turned into garbage that has made those issues look like gnats that are just bothersome because some members took it upon themselves to rant endlessly about everything to do with this country. If the shoe was on YOUR foot and this forum was based in YOUR country and we came in shooting from the hip with disparaging remarks about it over and over and over and over, you would feel the same way I do if you love your country at all.....and you must or you wouldn't still be there.

You want the honest to God truth.....CNET should have totally ignored us Moderators and shut SE down like they originally intended. It's only here because we believed in the members and convinced them that SE could actually go back to what it was before it became a political and 'free speech' hell-hole.

TONI

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Sorry Toni. I'm under no gag order

In reply to: As an 'outsider'

And if you can't handle the truth about your government, then do something about it. You have the right to petition your government. That's no small thing. And it's better than looking the other way or angry Nationalim.

I see you still think that there's some kind of parallel between the US war in Iraq and everyday discussion about politics. There's not.

I invite you to dig anything up about Cananda or any other nation that compares to the last 26 months of Iraq.

If I think my country is wrong I tell it so.

Many Americans say the same things I do about Iraq.So you can't allege some particular anti-American bias on my part. Unless you are going to argue that anyone who discusses the issue is unAmerican

Brushing it under the carpet helps no one.
It's not good enough to tell people not to talk about it and/or turn it into an issue of Nationality.

As I said before,we all have a stake in this, particularly those of us on Canada.
This subject is off limits to no one

Just curious now. What do you think is the correct approach regarding Iraq?

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The correct approach

In reply to: Sorry Toni. I'm under no gag order

with regards to what?

I believe we took the correct approach from the beginning. You don't....enough said.

As for the comment you made about the links not existing because you believe your source is the only one that matters. The links I mentioned DO exist and they were daily running totals of deaths in Iraq. I don't recall where they were, and I'm not hunting through thousands of posts in SE to locate them now.

I'm done with this thread.....only because you insist that you have the right to bash my country and its leaders under the guise of 'truth' that I won't face. You refuse to accept that I believe differently than you do, and THAT is my truth so I don't have anything to petition against. The other truth I have is that you are the type who wave your banners in other countries declaring the USA as the enemy of all and you wish you could petitition here.

Clean up your own backyard before you waltz in here believing we need cleaning up by you. I haven't seen any 'everyday' discussion about politics.....I only see a constant barrage of criticism against a country you can't do anything about and it must frustrate the living sh.. out of you.

I don't look the other way.....I've even run for office here in my county in order to change things I think are wrong here. Can you say the same? Does your country listen to you and change things just because you 'tell it so'? Or do they continue to do what they feel is best for the whole of the country?

There is nothing in Canada that compares to the last 26 months in Iraq.....but your history has skeletons that at one time also made headlines that didn't compare to anything the USA had been doing at THAT time either. Apples and oranges.....

Just what is at stake for Canada regarding the war in Iraq that makes your country more important than any other country? Interesting comment you made about that without going into details. Please expound, and maybe I won't be through with this thread after all. I'd be interested in hearing what selfish reasons you might have as a country for wanting us out of there.


TONI

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To tell the truth..........

In reply to: Sorry Toni. I'm under no gag order

I really don't give a rats behind what you and the rest of Canada or any other country thinks! And I am sick of hearing your opinions! I support our President and I support our military! And since you don't live here, basically it's none of your business!

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(NT) (NT) Ditto that!

In reply to: To tell the truth..........

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basically it's none of your business!

In reply to: To tell the truth..........

Do you believe the USA (your President) should to try to influence world affairs?

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(NT) (NT) YEP!

In reply to: basically it's none of your business!

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well then

In reply to: (NT) YEP!

You should have no problem with a citizen of another country expressing an opinion about what is going on in the USA.

Everybody is entitled to express an opinion. (unless hate or racial)

Everyone else is entitled to agree or disagree with that opinion.

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Really?

In reply to: well then

Everybody is entitled to express an opinion. (unless hate or racial)

Lots of America hating going on.
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There isn't a country anywhere in the world

In reply to: well then

that doesn't try to influence another country, JP....

That doesn't mean that the rest of the world's citizens automatically get to jump in and criticize literally everything to do with that other country until you are on the verge of throwing up.

As citizens who believe they have the right to criticize every nuance of another country and call it an 'opinion', are you not trying to also influence that country?

True leaders try to influence and use diplomacy the majority of the time to do so....other leaders try to force changes to their will and not the will of the people within that country. Citizens just ***** and moan over everything they can't influence and have no say so over.....and very few of them ever ***** and moan about their own country....instead they complain about other countries when they know they can't do anything about it anyhow. Does that make alot of sense....or are they really just frustrated over the fact that they KNOW they have all the answers and nobody will listen to them?

For all the bitchers and moaners.....complaining about something does nothing. Coming up with actual solutions that work is another. Vague statements, such as we've been deluged with (give peace a chance) is NOT a solution unless you can come up with a plan that is workable to make that happen. If you think the USA hasn't actually tried that, you didn't pay close attention to 9-11 that day because sometimes the OTHER party doesn't want peace.

TONI

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Yes,

In reply to: well then

and all of your posts are hate filled for the USA and our President!

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(NT) (NT) I can disagree without hating

In reply to: well then

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