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General discussion

TIFF vs. RAW?

Jun 11, 2005 2:43PM PDT

Which is better? There is so much discussion about this. I am considering a camera that only has the TIFF format. Would this work fine for me?

Discussion is locked

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Like anything else, it depends.
Jun 11, 2005 3:00PM PDT

Tif preserves a lot of information about the image, and it benefits from processing done within the camera to give you a good image. Thus, while it can be used with a photo editor like Photoshop, this is not a requirement. It can be printed as is if you wish.

Raw format pretty much demands some image processing. It is a dump of data from the camera's sensor, and does not have the internal algorithms of the camera's processor applied. That sounds like a disadvantage, but it is not. Raw processing allows you to adjust things like white balance and exposure long after the camera snaps the photo. With the click of a mouse you can change from tungsten to sun light. By dragging a slider you can increase or decrease the exposure time. Thus, an image could, for example, be 'developed' twice. Once with a longer exposure to get the details in the shadow areas. A second time with a shorter exposure to tone down the highlights. These two images can be merged by a photo editor so that all areas of the image are properly exposed. Raw is powerful, but requires this 'custom' work to make it useful.

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RAW FILES
Jun 11, 2005 4:05PM PDT

Kiddpeat, Thanks for the post concerning raw files.
I never knew that a digital canera would save an image as a Tiff file in the first place. Set up preferences for Tiff/Raw or Jpg in the camera format?
I use Adobe Photoshop and could save a photo image as a raw file. Why? Where is it used?
I only use EPS and JPG. EPS in printing and JPG as an RGB file to send over the internet files as well as GIFFS for the really small size for the internet.
Please explain RAW again - what and why?

Kevin

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OK, perhaps an example would help.
Jun 12, 2005 11:55AM PDT

I recently took a photo of an outdoor construction project. I focused on some workers standing in a shaded area who were consulting blue prints. I got a good exposure, but the sun lit background including the sky was very washed out. I processed the raw image twice. The first time, I adjusted for the workers in the shade with changes to white balance, exposure, shadow detail, brightness, saturation, etc. This produced an image within Photoshop (I was using Photoshop's raw plug-in and a Canon raw file). I changed it's name so that I could obtain a second copy of the image. I then read the image again, and used the raw plug-in to adjust the overexposed background and sky. After setting a new white balance, exposure, etc., I wound up with a second image in Photoshop. I dragged the background layer from image 2 to image 1 which created a second layer in image 1. I applied a mask to the new layer, and masked out the workers who were properly exposed in image 1's background layer. Image 1 now showed the workers on layer 1, and the background construction project and sky on layer 2. The entire image was now showing as properly exposed. I hope all that is somewhat clear.

Adobe has a free raw file plug-in that can be downloaded to work with Photoshop versions prior to CS2. I know it supports Canon files in CS, but you need to check to determine what other raw formats and PS versions it will work with. CS2 has the plug-in built in.

If you don't use raw, I would keep my files in a TIF format. Your camera may supply jpeg, but Photoshop can save the files as TIFs. If the camera supports Tif, I would use that format most of the time. The disadvantage is longer capture times, and reduced memory card capacity (in terms of number of photos).

HTH.

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PS. The camera makers also supply raw file processing
Jun 12, 2005 12:01PM PDT

programs, so full Photoshop is not a requirement. Nikon charges extra for their software Sad, but Canon does not. Wink

Also, my old Nikon 4500 supported either tif or jpg. My Canon supports raw or jpg. I don't tend to see tif support as unusual.

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OK
Jun 12, 2005 1:12PM PDT

Kiddpeat, Thanks for the info on the plug-in for Photoshop. Nice info. I use 6.0 presently. Raw files I am not used to working with. Your info sounds good to me.
Masking has always confused me. In photoshop there are many ways to adjust and to obtain the same results. I will download the plug-in and work with it.
Do me a favor and post a question or a tip to the Graphics Forum also. Thanks.

Kevin

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RAW Files
Jun 12, 2005 1:51PM PDT

Sounds like you are a professional photographer and you prefer raw images to that of JPG images from your average camera. Nice. Not very practical for most photographers.
You probably have lost 99% of the readers here with your post.
Thanks for the post.

Kevin

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TIFF and RAW
Jun 12, 2005 12:43AM PDT

I don't know of any camera that only takes TIFF photos.

There are only about 13 to 14 cameras available that will take TIFF or .JPG photos. And Olympus makes 8 of them.

There are about 20 cameras (DSLR not included) available that can take RAW photos.

I think all DSLR cameras can take RAW.

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TIFF and RAW are common in two things:

1. The photo file is not compressed and there is no degredation in quality.

2. They produce large photo file sizes. i.e. if the camera is an 8 meg camera, a photo will occupy approx 8 meg. of space on the memory card.


RAW also permits you to make changes to exposure and white balance. Post processing with software is required.

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TIFF and RAW
Jun 12, 2005 1:37PM PDT

Joe, My current Canon S400 saves all files as JPG. Do not know about saving into other file formats as Tiffs or to Raw files.
Bottom line: WHY?
In my Adobe Photoshop 6.0 there is a file choice called raw. I have never used it ever. I use JPG or TIFF or EPS exclusively to adjust all images. If you need Photoshop to adjust a raw image, why would you ever set-up or download the images as Raw if you were an average photographer without a photo imaging software program?
I think that Adobe Photoshop is about $600+.
RAW Files? What is the advantage?

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TIFF and RAW
Jun 12, 2005 2:02PM PDT

You hit the nail on the head.

The average photographer does not use RAW.

The advanced photographer will spend more time, money and effort in trying to get the best results possible.

RAW is not for everyone.

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Please keep in mind. You do not need photoshop to
Jun 12, 2005 3:49PM PDT

use raw files. The camera maker supplies software which will work with these files.

You use raw files so that you can correct problems with an image. For example, did you shoot with the wrong white balance setting? You can change it in the raw file software. The software then produces a conventional image like a tif that can be used for printing. editing, etc.

I shot a lot of pictures before I tried the raw format on my camera. Now, I shoot ONLY raw unless I'm running out of memory card space. It is that powerful.

Is it for the average camera user who doesn't know what white balance, or exposure really are? No.

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White balance & exposure.
Jun 12, 2005 5:34PM PDT

What exactly is this. I am not a professional photographer but I am learning as I go and want a camera that can work with this. The Panasonic Lumix FZ20 works with TIFF and JPEG, should I look into a camera with RAW capabilities.

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If you wqnt raw file capabilities, like changing white
Jun 12, 2005 11:20PM PDT

balance, then you need a camera which has raw as one of its options. You cannot do this kind of processing on a jpeg or tiff image.

I have tried to explain what raw is in this thread. If you've read the posts, and still have questions, I suggest looking for a more detailed explanation in a photo book or magazine. There are a fair number of articles explaining raw available. However, you may not totally 'get it' until after you've used it for a while.