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General discussion

This'll really boost our standing in the world's eyes!

Feb 4, 2004 3:28AM PST
Utah House Wants United States Out of UN.
What an absolutely horrible political move, and idea. The world already sees us as irresponsible isolationist cowboys -- nonsense like this merely makes our diplomatic efforts much less likely to succeed.

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

Discussion is locked

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I and many others happen to agree with the Utah reps...
Feb 4, 2004 5:46AM PST

as the UN does threaten sovereignty and portions of our Bill of Rights.

The UN is a drain on our resources as we not only have to pay the lion's share of its collected "dues" but also end up having to pay most of the cost of UN actions as inevitable we are the policing force used.

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Re: I and many others happen to agree with the Utah reps...
Feb 4, 2004 8:58AM PST

Hi, Ed.

And there were lots of people in Venice and Florence who objected to being incorporated into larger units, too. Human history is a progression to larger and larger governmental units, from the tribe to the city-state to the nation state. The smaller units don't disappear, but they become increasingly irrelevant, though conservative always want to return to the era of increased local power, be it Florentines, Romans and Venetians who object to losing prestige in Italy (and doubtless complained about how Salerno wasn't paying its fair share!) or States' rights advocates who object to the primacy of Federal law. Most experts agree that the failure of the League of Nations was one of the major causes of World War II -- and the human race sure can't afford a World War III. Is the UN perfect? No. Has the time for world government come? No -- it's at least a couple of centuries away (unless glowal warming becomes global catastrophe and accelerates the process). But imperfect as it is, the UN sure beats no UN, and if we pulled out, it would have the same long-term effect as our refusal to join the League did after WWII -- to say nothing of my explanation (in the root message) of how it would not be in our national interest, either

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Sorry but globalization...
Feb 4, 2004 9:07AM PST

does not have to be inevitable nor does sovereignty have to be given up.

States Rights advocates and their complaints should be alerting you to the problems of globalization--the inevitable loss of sovereignty as the "larger unit" of government assumes more and more powers far in excess of what the charter grants.

People were happier and over all healthier and moral values were much higher before the "need" for a world government organization was foisted on an unsuspecting population.

MOST experts actually do not agree that the failure of the Leqague of Nations was a primary cause of WW II, SOME think so but as many or more see other more significant reasons.

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US and UN, heading down Europe's way
Feb 5, 2004 12:15AM PST

'the inevitable loss of sovereignty as the "larger unit" of government assumes more and more powers far in excess of what the charter grants.'

That is precisely what has happened in the European Union. When Britain held its referendum and signed up as a full member in 1974, it was the "Common Market" (European Economic Community), a continent-wide trading post.

Take a look at it now. Piece by piece, bill by bill it has morphed into a self-obsessed political leviathan, which far from caring for the interests of individual member states as the EEC did and was set up to do, now seeks to override and abrogate state authority and independence in favour of central control and collectivisation.

This is not even akin to the Union you have, which at least preserves and protects the statehood of its members, and enshrines and guarantees their political rights and freedom in a Constitution. Oh no, the EU goes far beyond that, it seeks to crush our very identities and existence, and replace them with a single superstate run by non-accountable bureaucrats.

This is not what the nation voted for back in 1974, yet since then more and more power has been ceded to faceless federalists with their own agenda of achieving a trans-European autocracy with Brussels as the home of the feudal overlords.

Then people here wonder why I loathe and despise the European Union so much. Sad

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Yep. but certain people...
Feb 5, 2004 4:26AM PST

just can't see the writing on the wall and want to blindly follow along when simply opening their eyes for an instant would allow them to see how the EU has attempted to crush the sovereignty of its members.

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and I always thought that WW II was mainly caused by onerous reparations
Feb 4, 2004 9:50AM PST

payments imposed on Germany by France and England. I don't recall hearing much about the League of Nations as a cause of the war.

The UN preventing WW III? The UN couldn't even deal with Saddam Hussein or the slaughter in Rawanda.

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I for one think it's high time ....
Feb 4, 2004 9:45AM PST

we tell the U.N. to shape up or we're shipping out. The whole Iraq affair showed the U.N. is all mouth and no action. There would have been no reason for the U.S. to even consider taking action in Iraq if the U.N. had stood behind it's own resolutions resulting from the first gulf war. We also shouldn't allow countries like France to threaten to veto enforcement of resolutions just because they happen to have a commercial interest in the country violating those resolutions. In short, it's time for the U.N. to grow up and act it's age or chance losing the support of the U.S.

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Yeah! The UN should have stopped Iraq from getting WMD...umm...nevermind. nt
Feb 4, 2004 11:26PM PST

.

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Good!
Feb 4, 2004 12:11PM PST

Got my Ron Paul petition in the mail recently. I think I'll send it back!

Evie Happy

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An historic moment... that is one US bill which gets my vote
Feb 4, 2004 11:51PM PST

Since you generally ignore those whom you disagree with or disapprove of, insult those who oppose you, and bully and cajole the rest, I don't think you will be much missed. And look at it this way, it'll be the one time you get unanimous support and a standing ovation at the UN.

Oops, nope not quite unanimous... I forget, old poodle **** will cry into his dog bowl. Ah well come election time that won't matter any more. Maybe then he'll decide to take a vacation over your way, hopefully a permanent one.

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Poodle ****?
Feb 5, 2004 12:03AM PST

Is that a common reference to your PM, or one of your own?

Dan

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Re:Poodle ****?
Feb 5, 2004 12:17AM PST

My own, but with luck it will catch on. It certainly suits him. Devil