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General discussion

This is what Jack Straw has to say about Spain's carnage ???

Mar 14, 2004 3:47PM PST
http://newsbox.msn.co.uk/article.aspx?as=article&f=uk_-_olgbtopnews&t=11881&id=16021&d=20040315&i=http://newsbox.msn.co.uk/mediaexportlive&ks=0&lc=en&ae=windows-1252

I am really sorry about this 13% - It makes me sick to think that such people live in my country

The poll also showed 73 percent of British Muslims are opposed to attacks by al Qaeda and other guerrilla organisations, but 13 percent say further attacks on the U.S. would be justified

I would personally like to round these people up and kick them back to where they came from - but that is further complicated by the fact that some of them were probably born here.
What a sick world we live in when people feel justified to kill thousands of innocent people - It just brings tears to my eyes.

Discussion is locked

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Conversation going nowhere incredibly fast.
Mar 15, 2004 9:29AM PST

Steve you asked a question and I tried to answer you, I gave you links to excellent sites, but it appears you don't want answers. Not sure what you want.

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I think Kiddpeat has summed up what your links are worth - No wonder the conversation wasn't going anywhere - links were left wing trash - with one extreme left NT
Mar 15, 2004 12:51PM PST

NT

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There you go!
Mar 16, 2004 2:25AM PST

>> The only way to avoid these horrible deaths of the civilians is by not having a war in the first place.<<
And when the causus belli was manufactured and virtually the whole world told you not the start the war, but you started it anyway, then upon whose hands is that blood? I'm not sorry at all that Saddam, his sons, and the other thugs in power are no longer with us. But how about the other tens of thousands (I'd guess close to 100,00 between civilian and military) of dead Iraqis? Are we not responsible for those deaths?

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Let's have some true figures Dave - those killed by American bombs and bullets and those killed by the Saddam thugs and terrorists
Mar 16, 2004 3:10AM PST

The thugs and terrorists would I.M.O far exceed collateral damage. I am as sorry as you that innocent people get killed in a war, but it would seem that the war was forced upon us by Saddam himself(ok that is arguable), but I personally would have felt happier if the inspectors had been given more time, as I have said before.
I think it was to Blake that I was speaking that we would have egg on our faces if weapons are not found, and I do believe I was right.

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Re:Let's have some true figures Dave - I'd love to give them to you!
Mar 16, 2004 9:42PM PST

Hi, Steve.

Unfortunately, the American news media don't supply those figures, and y'all castigate all other sources. I did a Google hunt previously, and that was the best link I could find on the issue.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Oh come on Rosalie! These sights cannot pass the smell test.
Mar 15, 2004 11:23AM PST

They are pushing an agenda, and are not objective observers. I think it's outrageous that you acuse the US of deliberately killing innocent people based on these sites. It's also outrageous to continue to claim that the US is responsible for what terrorists do.

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Re:Errr, when did the US feel justified in killing thousands of innocent people?
Mar 15, 2004 4:29AM PST
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Hi Dave. The US did not kill thousands of innocent people in Iraq. (NT)
Mar 15, 2004 11:26AM PST

.

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BTW Dave, the saddest excuse for an authority that I've seen in quite some time.
Mar 15, 2004 11:30AM PST

Where do you dig up these left wing propaganda sites that have no semblance of credibility. Where did they get these numbers? Were they on the ground counting bodies?

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The link that I eventually got back to was a site run by the quakers and they had a link to post any story that the person made up it would seem
Mar 15, 2004 1:17PM PST

Location:
Santa Cruz Friends (Quaker) Meeting
225 Rooney Street, Santa Cruz

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The one occasion (actually two) that stands out to me is....
Mar 15, 2004 4:32AM PST

...the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which were intended to cause mass civilian casualties. Roughly 150,000 people died in the only two nuclear attacks ever launched by any nation.

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The people of Japan were not innocent. They were supporting a cruel,
Mar 15, 2004 11:34AM PST

aggressive regime. Ever hear of the Rape of Nanking for starters? Also, the bombs are estimated to have saved well over 1,000,000 lives. The US was totally justified in using these weapons.

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And after that starter, Kiddpeat...
Mar 16, 2004 2:05AM PST

And after that starter, Josh might want to look into the "Hidden Holocaust" in which millions of Chineese were butchered. With that one, be sure to look into "Unit 731", the bio warfare facility. Don't miss what they used for lab animals. One of the stunning things was their putting anthrax into candy that they handed out to Chineese kids in their test for a way to spread the infection.
Josh, every bit of it is in their own records. Consider that they had just developed their "ceramic bomb" as a container for delivering bio agents and were just about to combine that with those "baloon bombs" that they had been sending over to the U.S.

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Sorry, Josh, they were military targets....
Mar 16, 2004 1:51AM PST

Sorry, Josh, they were military targets. Note: Japan spread out their manufacturing and other targets in places where civilians also lived.
During World War II, Hiroshima was a city of considerable military importance. It contained the 2nd Army Headquarters, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan. The city was a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly area for troops.
In the case of Nagasaki, the primary target of Kokura was obscured by dense smoke left over from the earlier B-29 raid on nearby Yawata, and the bombardier could not pinpoint the specified aiming point despite three separate runs. So Sweeney turned to the secondary target, Nagasaki. Nagasaki was a military manufacturing target.

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Don't get me wrong, guys....
Mar 16, 2004 3:33AM PST

....I'm not siding with the Japanese in WWII.

BUT.....the purpose of those two bombings wasn't to destroy military targets. The purpose was to scare the crap out of the Japanese and convince them to surrender. It worked, and no doubt it saved a lot of lives on both sides, but the fact remains that we intentionally obliterated two cities and did so knowing we'd be killing a lot of civilians.

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So tell us, Josh...
Mar 16, 2004 3:21PM PST

So tell us, Josh, considering the population density of Japan, what targets would you have called that would not have had a lot of civilians in the area? One assumes that you realize that factories, even ones for military munitions, are not manned by soldiers.

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Re:So tell us, Josh...
Mar 16, 2004 10:11PM PST

Other options were considered, J, including the bombing of unpopulated neighboring islands (or even dropping the bomb over the ocean), with a "heads-up" given to the Japanese in advance so they'd have the chance to witness it. Truman considered these other options but ultimately decided that due to the extreme zealousness with which the Japanese were fighting, they might not work. Truman felt that the only way the Japanese would really understand how devastating these weapons were was to show them what they could do to a city.

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what inocents did we kill???(NT)
Mar 17, 2004 8:25AM PST

.

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Re: This is what Jack Straw has to say about Spain's carnage ???
Mar 14, 2004 9:53PM PST

Hi, Steve.

Same request I routinely make -- when you have a long URL,
would you please use the template to show a brief title, so the text doesn't bleed illegibly into the margins of the page? The template is {url=site.com}text{/url}, but with square ( [ ] ) brackets replacing the squiggly ones.
I use PC mag's "robotype" utility to spit out the template when I type "hrf". Simply put the URL in place of "site.com" and the text you want displayed as the live link in place of "text."
Thanks!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re:Re: This is what Jack Straw has to say about Spain's carnage ???
Mar 15, 2004 1:03AM PST
Same request I routinely make -- when you have a long URL....

Of course the real solution would be fixing the f'ing software instead od routinely instructing people on the workarounds. Not knocking your effort Dave, only CNet's lack of it.

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Noted Dave - will do next time NT
Mar 15, 2004 4:26AM PST

nt

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They think we're bigger liars than Saddam or Ben Laden. I'm not so sure I disagree.
Mar 16, 2004 1:20AM PST

W can be wrong, and we can be patriotic at the same time. Doesn't mean encouraging terrorists. Just that the truth does matter.

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If I had a cigar I would award it to you, Bob. -nt
Mar 16, 2004 3:28AM PST

.