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General discussion

This is interesting after, all the hoopla on Janet J

Feb 17, 2004 2:10AM PST

DAILY POLL

Do you use the V-Chip to block inappropriate TV programs from coming into your home?

Yes:
2%
No:
76%
I don't know what that is:
22%

Total Voters: 10766

Discuss Results
Archives | Related Topics


Looks like after all the controversy more people would be interested in using it!
Not sure, But I don't think my 20 year old RCA would even take a v-chip! If that is where they go! LOL I just know I don't have one!

Glenda

Discussion is locked

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It's really just a matter of taking God at His word. If you're
Feb 19, 2004 9:12AM PST

not willing to believe Him, you're in REAL trouble. As the Bible says, 'Without faith, it is impossible to please God.' He wants us to believe Him. I don't think that's asking too much. We do it for our friends every day.

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I have faith in a great many things.
Feb 19, 2004 9:52PM PST

I find it troubling that god has such a poor self image that he needs us to please, worship, and please him. If I do what I feel is right I'll be fine with whatever happens as my soul goes 'round the wheel next time. If god holds it against me that I did good things but didn't give him credit, that's just too petty for me.

Dan

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God doesn't need ANYTHING from us. He is complete, and we can
Feb 19, 2004 11:54PM PST

neither add to or subtract anything from him. He commands us to worship and praise Him because that's what is good for us. He included the need to worship Him when He made us so that we could enjoy that experience. The problem is that, if we don't worship God, we'll find something else to worship. That's bad for us, and those around us.

It may be your opinion that you are doing good things, but God doesn't look at the things you do. He looks at your heart to see why you do them. If He doesn't find good things done with the right desire and motivation, then the thing isn't good at all.

You act like God is an option. Many suggest that the worst possible fate is to be cut off from God. You may think you already are, but think about it. Do you admire a beautiful sunset? God caused that to be. Do you value love or rationality? God is the source of those, and creates the conditions which make them possible. However, God is also no pus*y cat. The ancients said that 'it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God'. You really should consider that.

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You make god sound a bit self centered
Feb 20, 2004 12:22AM PST

Not to mention vengeful and petty. Is the only motivation that is acceptable to him is to perform good deeds because he said so, then that's a problem. If he can't accept good deeds performed out of a person's innate sense of charity and compassion then that's a problem.

One possibility is that god is really this way and makes his decisions on the basis of how nicely we say we love him. That's a bad idea. See 'King Lear'.

The more likely idea is that we underestimate god's ability to accept the performance of good works. I believe that a just god would accept good deeds for their intrinsic value and for the motivation of the doer regardless of the billing god gets in the credits. See C. S. Lewis' 'The Last Battle'.

Dan

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Where did I say anything like that?
Feb 20, 2004 4:42AM PST

You said:
'If he can't accept good deeds performed out of a person's innate sense of charity and compassion then that's a problem.'

I said:
'It may be your opinion that you are doing good things, but God doesn't look at the things you do. He looks at your heart to see why you do them. If He doesn't find good things done with the right desire and motivation, then the thing isn't good at all.'

and the difference between these statements is?

BTW, God, ultimately, does not judge us based on 'good deeds'. He doesn't keep score and see if the good outweighs the bad. He demands perfection. He is perfect and, anyone who wants to be in His presence, must be perfect. That's why Jesus died for us; to make us perfect in God's sight. We couldn't meet the standard, so God met it for us.

BTW, I didn't get your point on Lewis's book. That series is one of my favorites. Could you amplify a bit on what you're trying to say?

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Re:Where did I say anything like that?
Feb 20, 2004 4:52AM PST

The implication I got was that god would only accept actions motivated by service to him. Is this not your belief? That would leave out in the cold those who have no knowledge of god yet live their lives in as exemplary fashion as could be imagined.

I'm referring to Aslan's explanation of his acceptance of a servant of Tash.

Dan

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No, I don't think it is.
Feb 20, 2004 5:18AM PST

Jesus, in the sermon on the mount, talked about the requirement for obedience in the 'heart' rather than mere outward actions. Thus, a man is guilty of sexual misconduct if he merely lusts for a woman. I don't think He suggested that the motivation must be to serve God, although, if one is obeying the law, then one is obeying God (sort of).

I'll have to look for the servant of Tash.

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Re:No, I don't think it is.
Feb 20, 2004 5:21AM PST

So a person with no knowledge of religions or gods or anything along those lines passes through the gates if he has lived an exemplary life?

Dan

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That sounds like an oxymoron.
Feb 21, 2004 9:31AM PST

There's only one person who's lived a perfectly exemplary life; Jesus Christ, and He is very much aware of God, since He is God, and of religion. Remember that if you want to enter heaven based on an exemplary life, God demands a perfect exemplary life which means that you never, ever sin.

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Re:That sounds like an oxymoron.
Feb 22, 2004 10:31PM PST

I meant, of course, as exemplary a life as a standard human could follow.

Dan

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I think the answer is no.
Feb 22, 2004 11:15PM PST

A standard, exemplary human life falls well short of the mark. God's mercy and forgiveness are needed.

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Re:I think the answer is no.
Feb 23, 2004 2:30AM PST

But what if you've never heard of god? What if you've never been exposed to religious teachings and have not knowledge that religion exists?

I know, it's a hypothetical question.

Dan

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Re:Re:I think the answer is no.
Feb 23, 2004 4:29AM PST

If someone never heard of America then there's little chance he will be going there. Blame Americans? Maybe heaven's the same way? Get out there and spread the word.

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lol - That's just silly!
Feb 23, 2004 6:01AM PST

.

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There is no such person. God is revealed by His creation to all
Feb 23, 2004 5:36AM PST

who look, and the need for 'religion' or worship is built into each person. The more interesting question is those who lived by faith as best they could even though they didn't receive God's message.

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Re:Re:Where did I say anything like that?
Feb 20, 2004 1:18PM PST
The implication I got was that god would only accept actions motivated by service to him. Is this not your belief?

1 John 4:20 - If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

That would leave out in the cold those who have no knowledge of god yet live their lives in as exemplary fashion as could be imagined.

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another, 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Romans 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
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Re:Re:Re:Where did I say anything like that?
Feb 22, 2004 11:13PM PST

Yeah, no problem with clarity or obtuseness there.

Dan

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However, the Bible is the collected writings and translations
Feb 20, 2004 7:00PM PST

of humans, who CLAIMED they were inspired by God.

The Christian "God is the Word, and the Word is God" on this forum treat unbelievers in the same ways as Islamic fundamentalists treat Christians,

that is,

its your word, or nothing.

Well, your word is wrong. God isn't wrong. You Christian arrogants cannot understand that what you say, what Billy Bob the billionairre with 700 TV stations and 8 satellites says, isn't the word of God.

Its the word of your personal biases, of what you want to believe is right.

IOW, its hubris.

Ian

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What Christian ever said his or her word is absolute truth?
Feb 21, 2004 3:25PM PST

We say that the 'Word is God' because that's what the Bible says. Of course, in that verse, it's talking about God the Son who was made flesh and dwelt among us. It is God the Son, Jesus Christ, who gives His authority to the Bible. Your argument is not with Christians, it is with Jesus Christ.

Christians merely say that Christianity is true. What else would you expect us to say? To paraphrase Mel Gibson, that is what we believe! Jesus Christ commanded Christians to speak of their faith, so it is not hubris, but obedience which lies behind what we say.

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Then we need to praise God that it's not worse, and see
Feb 19, 2004 9:08AM PST

if, in His mercy, there's a way out. Check out C.S. Lewis's 'Great Divorce'.

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Christian mytholgy
Feb 19, 2004 10:03PM PST

doesn't really offer a way out of hell, my misplaced Orpheus. If we're here, it's for the duration.

Dan

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Tell us about that Dan. What would it mean to us? What
Feb 19, 2004 9:05AM PST

would it say about God? I'ld really like to know.

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Re:Tell us about that Dan.
Feb 19, 2004 10:19PM PST

It would say that we don't or can't know god's will as well as some think we can, perhaps. Or that we're just mistaken. Next time around we'll have to approach things with a little more wisdom and understanding and less blind acceptance of those who we learn from. Just calling someone a teacher does not make them correct. Just calling someone a preacher does not make them true. Just because someone wrote something thousands of years ago it doesn't mean it's the word of any god.

I don't know that we can say anything about god. His message is obtuse, inconsistent, fractured, and distant. If he's ever given us a message at all, that is. Or Voltaire could be right - "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh."

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OK, if God agrees with you, then He's
Feb 20, 2004 2:03AM PST

'obtuse, inconsistent, fractured, and distant. If he's ever given us a message at all, that is. Or Voltaire could be right - "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh."'. In that case, we couldn't rely on anything He said. Not even when He says He agrees with you!

If He's 'obtuse, inconsistent, fractured, and distant, how was He able to create such consistency, cohesiveness, and integration in the universe? Why is there so much depth in even the smallest part of the physical world? It's still a very tantalizing mystery in so many ways. Why is it so finely tuned that any variation in the initial parameters of the big bang would have made our existence impossible?

You've made a huge step of faith in thinking that God has not communicated with us. Faith is, of course, what life is all about, but it should be examined to see if it's a sound faith. You are right. There are many false teachers and preachers. The New Testament warns about this over and over again. It does, however, also say that one of those teachers was God, and that He came to teach us and die for us. Many serious, brilliant people have agreed. Perhaps you should not write Him off so quickly.

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I don't dismiss god quickly
Feb 20, 2004 2:24AM PST

I didn't even say I did it at all. Nor am I arguing any condition of the physical nature of the universe. If god were delivering the spot on message you seem to be proffering, why is there such discord in among the religions of the world? Or even within the christian world. Or, for that matter, why is there divergence in the catholic church? If the message were as clear as it should be there would be none of this. We would know the will of god, his expectations and disappointments, and what would be a good definition to use for indecency on broadcast TV!

Dan

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There is confusion because there is sin in the world.
Feb 20, 2004 5:05AM PST

There is sin in the world because man made the wrong choice when tempted by evil. Then, rather than admit sin, the blame and obfuscation game began. Paul says that men deliberately suppress the truth because they want to remain in rebellion against everything that God stands for.

Yes, even religions are invented to try to avoid God and His demands. Is it any wonder that there are large differences and discord? Are they all right? Of course not! They're so much in contradiction with each other that it's logically impossible for all of them to be right. Yes, even within the christian world, there are sometimes profound differences. Paul, in the first century, warned about false teachers within the church. If all cannot be right, does that mean all are wrong? No.

Does that mean that the message is not clear? No, it means that it takes some time and effort to sort it out. It takes time and effort to cut through all the stuff that men have thrown in the way of the message. God could, of course, thunder from the mountaintop and force everyone to do the right thing. If He did that, however, He would defeat His own goal of people who freely choose to do the right thing. Since He's not willing to use force, He must use persuasion and slow transformation which occurs in the context of massive resistance. That's why it's not nice and neat.

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There sure is confusion, anyway.
Feb 20, 2004 5:16AM PST

Which religion is right? Those that follow a false religion are, of course, doomed. Just because many are false that doesn't mean that any are true. Are any the true religion that follows the word of god?

I wouldn't mind have a tough row to hoe, but it would be nice to know that you're in the right field. That's the question that god leave totally up in the air.

Dan

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The question is not which one is right, it is where is God?
Feb 21, 2004 9:41AM PST

There is only one whose founder said He is God. That one is Jesus Christ. God was made flesh and dwelt among us so He could give us the message. It seems logical that you start with the person who said He is God. The amazing thing is that those who knew Him best were the ones who believed that He is who He said He is. Usually, those who know a lunatic or liar best are those who know the person is a lunatic or liar. If He wasn't either a lunatic or liar, He must have been telling the truth.

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Ok, which?
Feb 22, 2004 10:35PM PST

Which of all the myriad christian sects is the closest to god?

Dan

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I don't think the issue is viewed in those terms.
Feb 22, 2004 11:40PM PST

Different churches are composed of different kinds of people, and therefore the churches have different personalities. As long as the church adheres to historically orthodox theology, all will be in agreement regarding the essentials of the faith. Thus, the answer is to choose the one you are comfortable with, and can respect. The Presbyterian Church USA seems very intellectually oriented for example. The Baptist General Conference leans in the same direction while the Southern Baptists are probably more folksy. Charismatic churches are likely to be emotional and take a dim view of the intellect.