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General discussion

These forums may be the best support you'll find.

Nov 13, 2004 2:15AM PST
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041113/COLUMNIST29/41112010/-1/NEWS echoes what I've known for some time.

Forums such as here beat you calling most tech support phone lines as well as some Microsoft support articles. The above article also reiterates something I do which is my sly attempt to help people learn to be self-supportive and that is to try google.com for that first try to find an answer.

What is missing however in that article is the SPYWARE and Parasite plague that I'm seeing. For that I offer a few posts. One is mine and the other is a list of FREE TOOLS you can use to find and remove many pests.

1. Mine -> http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-6132-0.html?forumID=32&threadID=1313&messageID=15002
2. MajorGeeks -> http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=35407

Take some time to read the article first listed, and remember that these forums may be the best you'll every find.

Cheers,

Bob

Discussion is locked

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Hear,Hear
Nov 13, 2004 3:28AM PST

I agree whole heartedly.

I also think that you are the probably the one with the most broad based and in depth knowledge of the subjects in these forums.

However that I also feel strongly that many times your [not really very sly] "teach to fish" posts are so d----d cryptic that it turns new comers away.

Seems that you may want to post in every thread as opposed to taking the time to provide the help that people come to the forums to get.

That's my thoughts and have received a number of emaoils from those that agree.

Still you are a great asset to the forums.

If you would like to delete this post, feel free without notice to me. It probably violates the TOS anyway.

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Glad you posted this here.. I need to vent..
Nov 13, 2004 5:06AM PST

Don't disagree about this being the best forum....

But I disagree totally with your handling of this post
http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-6142-0.html?forumID=5&threadID=44378&messageID=523548
and others.

But this one sticks. Cause after you bailed on him Edward started in. I think Grandpaw is gone. A member that taught me to be a better Tech. Gone cause two heavyweights couldn't step away from the keyboard.

So he complained about Xp, googling, M/S help and support.
You and Edward forget you wern't at the speakeasy?
Now you are here and in Computer Help bragging how good this forum is after possibilly chasing off a good teacher... that sticks in my craw....

From the home page....
Our vibrant online community provides a comfortable place where members from all walks of life and technical backgrounds feel relaxed and comfortable about discussing a wide range of technical topics with thousands of other CNET members.

Might want to remember this.....

I'm done venting.
Know that I will not respond to this post...

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Wrong place for Bob bashing, but...
Nov 13, 2004 7:10AM PST

will add to it anyway.

Robert knows way too much to keep it to himself, and advise Googling. Guess this saves him time, since he posts in many Forums.
If he would just realise that many of us need help ASAP, maybe that would help in his replies.
Even if the problem, or question is not an immediate need to know thing, still share what you know.
I mean that's why this is the best place. Everyone chips in their opinion, right or wrong. Sort through the advice, and you will probably find an answer. Go Googling, and sooner or later you may find an answer, but then, why have these Forums at all?

And, in Bob's defense, after you have Googled it, and still can't find an answer, he will try to help, and usually stick with you.

Also always enjoy Grandpaw's posts. But only on questions. Everyone, besides Grandpaw, can learn from the answers. But a negative outlook, and a rant, are better kept very short, IMHO.

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Re: Wrong place for Bob bashing, but...
Nov 14, 2004 11:54AM PST

Hi, Ray.

Haven't you ever heard the aphorism about the long-term benefit of teaching a man to fish, instead of just giving him a fish? That's what Bob's trying to do. I know -- I used to be the main go-to-guy in a support forum myself...
-- Dave K.

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Hi Dave...
Nov 15, 2004 8:14AM PST

know all about that old saying, and think it is one of the best. I mean learning is much better than just being told the answer, in most cases.

Not sure if you, or Bob, are paid moderators, but if not, then there is no need to reply to posts, unless you want to help. I know we could go round, and round about wether Googling is "help". Surely can be, and MS Knowledge Base articles can be.

You are not on your own here Dave, many others trying to help, so I still think that chiding, and a reference to Google, is not the best policy.
JMHO

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I guess I should say something
Nov 15, 2004 12:58AM PST

Even though it's of a personal nature. Or maybe I shouldn't. Anyhow, Bill, I appreciate your support. I do think it's desireable to point out a post that is more a criticism or judgment, particularly a personal one, rather than a helpful post, in order not to leave the impression that such posts are okay. But a person like me also needs to refrain from participating in the t*t for tat that such posts often lead to. And a response to a post that is somewhat of a personal attack should be more restrained than my response to glb. Mea culpa.

grandpaw

P.S. I like the quote from the homepage; it bears occasional repeating.

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Re: These forums may be the best support you'll find. Why ?
Nov 15, 2004 12:16AM PST

The way I read the Toledo guy's article basically says:

1. Tech supports are weak and might not solve the problem. We knew that since years.
2. Use a search engine and narrow down the results. You might find:

2a. An article which does solve the problem

or

2b. A web site or newsgroup thread with a similar problem.

An observation here. The author seems that it's unfamiliar with the web based Forums. He's prizing some sites that deal with articles / fixes in the windows realm (his subjective choice).

2a and 2b might be the so called fishing process. If the fishing would be successful, won't the 2b resources starved ? How about the fact that "the user can't see the forest, because he only sees the trees". IOW, he's unable to understand the content and / or unsure how to do it, without another person staying side by side and feeding him with the teaspoon.

But that's not what I wanted to point out. It reminded me an article that deals with the Forums. What amazed me that time was the fact that the reporter guy wasn't aware of his mother's own Forums site.

The sociologist guy has some good points regarding:

- "Discussion vs. Resolution" threads

- Knowledge sharers

- Regular posters: content, reliability, activity, activity's ratio ("number of messages in different threads" vs "number of messages in the same thread")

- Forum traffic

- The well-known context: "one man's [flame] warrior is another man's poet".


So, what was my main point here ?

"These forums may be the best support you'll find" indeed but if one really wants to "unweave, unwind, unravel" Wink "why is in many cases better" and / or "how to improve them",

we should begin with some of the above categories first.


Cetin

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Hello, my dear friend
Nov 15, 2004 3:26AM PST

It's soooooooooo nice to see you are still around and as helpful as always. Your wisdoms and knowledge have helped me on occasions too numerous to mention and you've always jumped in when I've hollered to you for help. I'm glad you are well.......

TONI

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A milestone ?
Nov 16, 2004 1:05AM PST

I like anniversaries. This is exactly the 1000 th posted messages (in fact almost all "tech replies") since the actual Forums went alive. Someone would think and / or say that's a worthless achievement.


Anyway: is it much, is it less ? It depends of the philosophy and mine's is "Non multa, Sed multum". Messeges were picked from multa Forum and replied in a Cures style Wink


Thank you Toni for yours reminding of me, and walking down the holy old memory lanes !


Forum joke:

Regular Poster: "Just give a reply if there's a problem. We're open 24 hours."
Greenhorn: "Is that Pacific time?"


Cetin [Computer Cures]

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Re: These forums may be the best support you'll find.
Nov 15, 2004 1:33PM PST

The CNET Forums and the "Faces" behind them are the "BEST"... GOOGLE first can be very helpful and much of the time i do that,except when im at my wits end and need help/answers NOW! Reading is always good,and i do a lot of it, but there are times i just dont understand what the words mean,cant figure it out and thats when i come here for help..To be honest,i find MS "google" and other search engines can be be very confusing..but here at the Forums,there is none of that,just a Family of Caring Helpful Friends Helping Friends..and I like that so much Better. *S*
CNET = A College of Knowledge.