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The Universes:

by Alegoo92 / June 15, 2007 2:23 PM PDT

Hi Buzztown. I'd like to share with you an email I just sent to BOL.. because I doubt (because of its length and complexity) it won't be included. Enjoy!


Hey TMV. I'd just like to contribute to the brainbusting discussion of time travel and multiple universes, which I was heavily engrossed in for several months for a school project. Your previously mentioned concept of "branching off universes" is a very accepted theory when imagining the 5th-10th dimensions. To start off, I'll summarize the first 11 dimensions.

0 - a point. Points from the 0 dimension is of indeterminate size. It is indeterminate because a point is unmeasurable, since every measurement can be continuously divided and never reach 0.

1 - a line. The 1st dimension is the connection of two 0 dimensions.

2 - axes. The 2nd dimension is length and width as found by crossing two 1st dimensions.

3 - space The 3rd dimension is the 2nd dimension with a third axis, volume, added. This is the dimension we live in.

4 - time/duration. The connection of two different points of time. 3rd dimensional beings can only see one moment of the 4th dimension at a time.

5 - life. The 5th dimension is different branches of places we can take ourselves through the 4th dimension. The 'route' we take is based on personal choice. e.g. choosing to make popcorn connects your current state of the 4th dimension to a new 4th dimension (you with popcorn).

It should be noted that it is conceptually impossible to successfully travel into the past without the 6th dimension...

6 - "time travel". Though not limited to time travel, the 6th dimension is a fold in spacetime which allows successful travel to previous branches of the 5th dimension traveled to in the 4th dimension.

7 - Universal Life in Point Form. Take a breath... The 7th dimension is conceiving that all possible routes to be taken through the 4th dimension (so all possible 6th dimensions) are a singularity in their own universe. Conceptually, it is infinity as a single point.

8 - Connecting Universes. In the 7th dimension, an entire lifetime or course of history: or anything that has or ever will happen in our universe is expressed as a singularity. But there are more than 1 universes.. there is an infinite amount of universes: all created by different initial conditions. The 8th dimension is a line to connect the completely different universes.

9 - Spontaneous Reappearing. Similarly to how two dimensional things can move to (what appears to them) as completely different places instantaneously through the third dimension.. the 9th dimension is spontaneously appearing in a completely other 7th dimension. Without taking routes through the 8th dimension.

10 - You'll need a second breath... As you may have noticed, the dimensions seem to repeat themselves. Points, turning into lines, turning into intersecting lines and so fourth. The 10th dimension, is conceptually, restarting. Take every dimension known/unknown to be possible in every theoretical universal time-scale that can every exist in any form, and put it into a singular point. This means that every lifetime, every universe, every dimension is expressed as one geometric point.

Unfortunately, (perhaps not), this spells the last dimension. Because the 10th dimension encompasses every possibility of every universe being a singularity, there is nothing else left in the entire space time continuum.


Using the information above, I would like to correct two statements I heard on BOL:

"If we had mastered time travel, we would already know of it because we would have been informed by our future selves"
Not likely. The difficulty of making it back to the exact same universe that you originated from would be very hard. You would most likely make it back to the past: but an entirely new past, where new decisions had been made and different things existed: thus not effecting the world you knew.

"It's not like there's multiple universes, there's one universe."
Conceptually incorrect. Conceptually, and most likely, there are an infinite number of universes existing in dimensions we cannot reach.

Thanks for the podcast, I love it!



Please; share your thoughts! Personally I love these concepts: most of my friends on the other hand get annoyed trying to interpret it. :-/


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by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / June 15, 2007 10:49 PM PDT
In reply to: The Universes:

Did you watch Buckaroo Bonzai or not?

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(NT) No... :(
by Alegoo92 / June 15, 2007 11:56 PM PDT
In reply to: Sooo...
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(NT) One of the classics. 8th Dimension and all.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / June 16, 2007 12:38 AM PDT
In reply to: No... :(
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On your time-travel point.
by udayan71 / June 16, 2007 12:20 AM PDT
In reply to: The Universes:

Before I go on to talk about my subject title, a general point about what you have written, while I agree with both of your assertions, especially that of there being more than one universe, your point about the 10th dimension has me somewhat troubled. Being an empiricist, where is the proof to suggest this is true? Does it simply rest in logic?

Now your 6th dimension point. Although not directly pertaining to it, I wish for us to never break this - simply for the reason that we no longer become accountable for our actions. If we are able to turn back time, does this mean we are able to fundamentally crease history? Furthermore, will such action impact the lives of everyone in a 'butterfly effect?'

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by Alegoo92 / June 16, 2007 12:29 AM PDT

Concerning the 10th dimension: its more of a geometric concept than a dimension: because nothing more than it as a point exists.

As for time travel, I had subscribed to the idea that if you returned to the past and changed it: you would return to a past from a different branch of the universe: and thus would only effect the universes that branch off from that past. But when you tried to return to the future, you would unfortunately be lost in yet another completely new universe. The 6th dimension is supposed to fix this by being able to 'fold' a universal time-scale so one can safely move about in it; but it's existence is imperative for this to work.


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I understand the mechanics
by udayan71 / June 16, 2007 1:43 AM PDT
In reply to: Hmm

The mechanics of the divergent path makes sense. It is crudely encapsulated by the Denzel Washington movie Deja Vu (sans appropriate accents).

However it does not address the point that in the hands of someone unscrupulous, it takes away individual autonomy and can literally change the paths of people - against their will. The fact that they wont know it is perhaps comforting but irrelevant, they still lose out.

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hmm.. int
by Alegoo92 / June 16, 2007 2:00 AM PDT

I guess you have a point.. but I don't think that the fact that no one is aware of a change is irrelevant. At some point in time, it may be necessary to change the past: which would in turn alter the lives of everybody from that point on... "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

But besides a galactic catastrophe, I agree that there should not be joe schmoe's traveling back in time.. dangerous and sort of morally irresponsible.


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'Needs of many...'
by udayan71 / June 16, 2007 2:06 AM PDT
In reply to: hmm.. int

Alarm bells fire off every time I hear that phrase. I suppose it is my personal politics that does that, but I find it horrendous to think that a body of mere mortals - let us be certain they are just that, mammals, and that there is nothing else - can make this claim as an excuse to take away free will.

I would be hard pressed to think of an incident when such an action would be justified.

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by Xandergrampy / February 19, 2008 10:09 PM PST
In reply to: The Universes:

A place where the show "Lost" seems to be going lately with its ideas.
With the concept of Minkowski spacetime.


In physics and mathematics, Minkowski space (or Minkowski spacetime) is the mathematical setting in which Einstein's theory of special relativity is most conveniently formulated. In this setting the three ordinary dimensions of space are combined with a single dimension of time to form a four-dimensional manifold for representing a spacetime. Minkowski space is named after the German mathematician Hermann Minkowski.

In theoretical physics, Minkowski space is often compared to Euclidean space. While a Euclidean space has only spacelike dimensions, a Minkowski space has also one timelike dimension. Therefore the symmetry group of a Euclidean space is the Euclidean group and for a Minkowski space it is the Poincar

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