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The swastika - please educate yourself...

by shawnlin / September 28, 2007 2:08 AM PDT

regarding the current story about the Navy barracks made of 4 L-shaped buildings that resemble a swastika:
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN2623711220070926

I recommend educating yourself before drawing conclusions...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/swastika

Looooooooooooong before teh German Nazi party used the symbol in a modified form, it has been and still is an ancient Hindu symbol for "all is well". Please, please - I wish more people were educated on this topic so as to associate the symbol with harmony and joy instead of hate.

I realize that it is extra-ordinarily difficult if not impossible for many...and I can't tell you how much it irritates me that the German Nazi party perverted an ancient symbol meant for good fortune into a symbol for their of perverse righteousness.

Very best,
Shalin

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Response
by Angeline Booher / September 28, 2007 5:14 AM PDT

You may have read the earlier thread about the naval barracks, and noted that the responses indicated that the posters felt the objection to the "shape" of the barracks from space was without merit.

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-6130_102-0.html?forumID=50&threadID=265644&messageID=2592603

The Nazis perverted much of civilization. To see the symbol today used by neo-Nazis is disturbing. It was not the symbol of Germany, but of the Nazi party which then made it the national flag. It no longer is.

The "Iron Cross" was a German military symbol.

I understand your irritation regarding the symbol having been used to identify the evil that promoted it.

On a positive side, seeing the symbol as it applies to Naziism is a visual reminder of what happened there, and that it should never be allowed to happen again.

Angeline
Speakeasy Moderator

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thanks; history, purpose...
by shawnlin / September 29, 2007 1:27 AM PDT
In reply to: Response

yes, I did not see as clearly as you did that the swastika is in *fact* associated with a dark history - I only mentioned that in passing that many will have a difficult time understanding the positive origins. And that history should not be ignored or repeated - I heartily agree.

If you put any trust or faith in symbolism...going along with your notion of the positive view: "...seeing the symbol as it applies to Naziism is a visual reminder of what happened there,..." I'd like to further the notion with the acknowledgment of it's positive nature and that the Nazi's use of the symbol backfired on them because of their dark purposes of which disrespected the symbol...I suppose you can stretch the analogy to a positive version of "the one ring" of The Lord of the Rings, except that if misused/"misrespected" for the darkest of purposes, it will not be of aid, and in time will overcome, the dark hearts of those who use it.
I present this view just as a way that the symbol is not misinterpreted or it's positive origins disrespected/forgotten.

In the West, this can be a tricky topic to discuss and I'm soo glad we can talk about these things here in an informed and respectful manner - I think it promotes a more comprehensive and common understanding.

Have a great weekend,
Shalin

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Another incident, of a different nature.
by drpruner / October 2, 2007 4:09 PM PDT
In reply to: Response
'Nazi' bedding outcry in India
A line of bedspreads named the "Nazi collection" has caused anger among India's small Jewish community.
The presence of the swastika next to the name is adding fuel to the controversy ... The owner of the home furnishings company, Kapil Kumar Todi, claims the acronym Nazi stands for "New Arrival Zone of India" and is not meant to be anti-Semitic.
Mr Todi also said the name just came to him, and he was not willing to change it, even if it offended Jewish people.
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wow that is strange...
by shawnlin / October 3, 2007 12:01 AM PDT

Yeah, I heard about this recently too...very strange coincidence of events...

I think this shows how much further India has to go on cultural sensitivities at least in business practices. However, there are Special Economic Zone (SEZ) in India, and maybe that's where Mr. Todi got the idea... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Economic_Zone)

On one hand, I suppose an argument can be made of the "out of sight, out of mind" symptom - the Jewish population in India is likely less than 0.5% of the population.

On the other hand, if it's the bureaucracy of changing the name is what the businessman doesn't want to deal with - that's a weak excuse.

Best,
Shalin

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0.5%? i wish.....
by jonah jones / October 3, 2007 12:58 AM PDT
In reply to: wow that is strange...

with a population of 1.3 Billion and 5,000 Jews, you care to do math?.....


jonah

.,

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Here's a rationale for Mr. Todi.
by drpruner / October 3, 2007 8:10 AM PDT
In reply to: wow that is strange...

(Not mine; hypothetical.) "India is the world's largest democracy."
"In a democracy, the [majority of the] people rule."
"We Hindis [or whatever] are very much in the majority, so what I do is ok."

Not that much different from what I suspect is his real thinking:
("I'll lose 5,000 out of 1.3 billion customers; I can live with that.)
[Borrowing from our esteemed colleague, Mr. Jonah.]

Otherwise I would think he would go to the commonsensical 'Why bother fellow human beings unnecessarily?'

FYI = 3.84615384615384615384615384615385e-6

BTW the majority Hindu religion has been gaining militancy the last few years. Recently a trainload of Muslims was arsonized; that hasn't happened since Partition.

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It's a lost cause...
by EdH / September 28, 2007 5:25 AM PDT

The swastika will be forever linked to the Nazis in the minds of Westerners and most others. That is never going to change, nor should it.

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Unfortunately, a symbol's meaning
by Steven Haninger / September 28, 2007 6:00 AM PDT

gets to be defined what it conjures up in the mind of the viewer today. Evil doers always exploit the benign and the good to advance their own causes. It's their mask and shield used to gain our acceptance and confidence. Such is how, though often much weaker, they can penetrate so deeply, cause so much damage, and leave such lasting scars. I'm not ready to invest in or wear swastika T shirts as peace symbols just yet. Happy

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What does a cross conjure in your mind?
by James Denison / September 28, 2007 8:50 AM PDT

A horrible means of executing criminals slowly and painfully by the Romans of first century, or a symbol of Christ's overcoming death and thereby also the implement used to impose it upon him?

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Well, the list would be long
by Steven Haninger / September 28, 2007 9:50 AM PDT

-for one, it's a reminder of how petty it is to whine about our small discomforts.
-for another, it makes small of our selfishness when we must sacrifice for the sake of another person's well being.

Of course execution by crucifixion predates its use by the Romans and it was said to have originally been done on an upright post (crux). As with many other forms of execution, it developed as an art and a science. The "cross" beam was said to have been a later addition....that the condemned might have carried this beam to the post and have been hoisted up and tied to it. Much more is written about the variations of the practice. As well, often the scourging that preceded the crucifixion itself were said to be more painful....and that death on the cross was a blessing to the condemned. I can't say your question is simple to answer.... within the context of my post, anyway. But I would say some hide behind its symbol and/or have used it wrongfully. Of course the KKK comes to mind.

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The Nazi swastika is a mirror image of the traditional one
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / September 28, 2007 9:18 AM PDT

Incidentally, it's very common in both Tibet and among American Indians (particularly the Pueblo tribes and Navajo) That's another example of the many parallels leading me to suspect those who were driven across the Bering land bridge into the Americas are extremely closely related to the Tibetans, who were probably driven into the mountains by whoever drove the proto-Amerinds across the land bridge.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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(NT) Both the Hindu and Nazi swastikas are right facing
by C1ay / September 28, 2007 12:37 PM PDT
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Actually, there's more to it than that...
by EdH / September 28, 2007 1:43 PM PDT
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(NT) I was simply pointing out the mirror error DK claimed
by C1ay / September 29, 2007 1:30 AM PDT
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Suggestion, Dave...
by J. Vega / September 28, 2007 1:39 PM PDT

Dave, do you remember those Johnson Smith & Company catalogs of jokes, toys, and no end of other fun things. You might want to look at one. The 1929 version was reprinted a while back and sold quite well with the interest in nostalgia. A copy should be easy to find and examine.
I just went to my shelf and took out my old 1940 edition. On page 28 is a full page listing for the "Seven Symbols of Luck" ring. The description starts with "A remarkable signet ring composed of the Seven Emblems of Luck known almost everywhere. A beautiful Monogram consisting of 'Horseshoe', 'Four Leaf Clover', 'Swastika', 'Wishbone' combined with ...'.
The swastika is where the stone is is a normal ring, is large, and is the easiest thing to see. It is not a mirror image of the Nazi swastika, it's the same.

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