General discussion

the same day as

New York Judge Orders Trump to Pay $2 Million for Charitable Foundation Violations

A New York judge on Thursday ordered President Trump to pay a $2 million settlement to a number of nonprofits in a civil case alleging the Trump Foundation committed “persistent” violations of the laws governing charitable organizations, according to a court filing.

He (DJT) tweets/issues a Presidential statement

that HE is happy to "donate" $2 million to some charities.

A Judge "orders" and Trump gets all "magnanimous"?

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They caught a break on a technicality,

and won't have to pay (considerable) interest.

I enjoyed the part about the mandatory 'ethics training' for the kids. Aside from Jr., they are very intelligent and well educated. If they really didn't know the things they are now to 'learn', they have been wasting someone's time and money in the business world.

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Too harsh on Jr.? This just in.
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RE: Jr.

Writes a book entitled Triggered....(of a response) caused by particular action, process, or situation, and then goes off half-cocked....only partly ready; poorly prepared.

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As I said,

"Aside from Jr., they are very intelligent"

We had a HS principal here, briefly, who had a hair trigger management style, spraying commands all over the place. Name of Hotchkiss.
Q.v. Happy

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Aside from Jr???

Why? Because he pushes back just like his father?

Intelligence seems to be a rare commodity on the left and that lack is glaringly being displayed publicly. Are you embarrassed over that yet?

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RE:Are you embarrassed over that yet?
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Trump doesn't embarrass his

supporters....and it didn't go unnoticed that your link is from MARCH of this year from the Atlantic's HEALTH section....LOL. Liberal DEMS are ALWAYS embarrassed by something that even RESEMBLES a conservative or common-sense statement/action so I hold no stock in your 'source'.

Are YOU seriously believing anything coming from Pelosi, Schiff, Nagel, the baby-faced idiot who actually believed he could be a real candidate for president until he dropped out, Schumer, et al anymore? (tongue in cheek question, obviously, and dripping with sarcasm as I ask)

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RE: from MARCH of this year from the Atlantic's
from MARCH of this year from the Atlantic's HEALTH section....LOL

RE: LOL?.......Please explain. Nervous laughter?

You think HE has changed since March? Why would you think that? HE needed to change?

There are a lot more embarrassing statements or actions that Trump has made since MARCH, and you think HE is not getting credit for them?

From the Atlantic's HEALTH section

MENTAL HEALTH is part of the HEALTH field/section.

Have NO moral standards?....Someone's got a mental health problem.

RE:  Trump doesn't embarrass his supporters

HE embarrasses himself AND the country of America.

What do you think of this move by Trump?
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Are you PROUD that DJT "donates"

Post was last edited on November 10, 2019 1:52 PM PST

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There are NO verbatim

transcripts for ANY president since Nixon...….that's why more than one person listening in takes their own notes so they can compare and make sure the conversation is as accurate as possible.

THAT is a FACT that you hate thinking about and can't accept. "I can show someone the facts/truth but I can't make them admit it?"

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RE:make sure the conversation is as accurate as possible.

And then they send it to the decider(Donald J Trump) and HE decides IF the version of the conversation is accurate in HIS eyes and releases HIS version of what was said.

A "perfect" phone call in MY eyes would be, I make a call and expect/want a certain outcome and I get everything I want.

Can we agree on that definition of a "perfect phone call"? Or would a perfect phone call in your eyes be one where you didn't get what you wanted and ended up hanging up on someone?

DJT made the "perfect" phone call, HIS words.

Since today is Veterans Day in America, and everyone's integrity is beyond reproach.

Vindman says White House omitted Trump's reference to Biden tapes in transcript of Zelensky call

PS.Dot, dot, dot: The ambiguous ellipsis in the Trump Ukraine call summary

Here are two passages. And I need to be clear: the ellipses shown here are in the original document.

Trump: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike… I guess you have one of your wealthy people… The server, they say Ukraine has it.

The other thing, There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it … It sounds horrible to me.

Post was last edited on November 11, 2019 6:58 PM PST

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And your point is????

What Biden tapes is he referring to?

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My "point" IS

DJT released HIS version of the conversation.

NOT a transcript.

AND Vindman is a serving military member and his integrity is beyond reproach, And HE said that there was mention of "Biden tapes" in the conversation, which DJT failed to mention in HIS version of the conversation.

If DJT would sit in the chair and raise his right hand as swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the might find out what the "Biden Tapes" are.

Post was last edited on November 13, 2019 5:36 AM PST

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Nope...your point is

to call the President a liar (HIS version to quote you) and yet refuse to accept the FACT that military/legal leaders quite often LIE themselves (cases in point: Comey, Clapper, Brennan, Mueller, et al)

Just because ONE person makes a claim about 'Biden Tapes' doesn't mean they actually EXIST....or others who hate Trump who were in on the phone calls would have ALSO mentioned them, doncha think?

That's kind of like the same crap about Biden NOT using his quid pro quo demand....out of ALL of the countries we give tax payer aid to that are ALSO corrupt around the world, the ONLY time it's threatened to be NOT given is when Biden's SON is under investigation. And just where IS that bridge that's up for sale?????

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RE:Nope...your point is
to call the President a liar (HIS version to quote you)

If it ain't the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, it's a lie.

refuse to accept the FACT that military/legal leaders quite often LIE themselves

Of course they do...that guy that testified about talking with the Ukrainian General and didn't mention the fact that the delivery of the military aid was being held up. Bill Taylor was his name. HE lied FOR DJT. And yesterday he admitted publicly that he felt badly about what he did.

Perhaps HE is the whistle blower and has already testified, wouldn't THAT be a hoot? Republicans crying to question the whistle blower, and they didn't know, he was sitting right there in front of them...they were so full of rage they didn't see the whistle blower.

I used the Since today is Veterans Day in America, and everyone's integrity is beyond reproach. hook, after listening to the accolades being heaped on....AND you KNOW HE is lying in this instance, OR has ever lied ?

And Vindman made a claim about what was missing from the "transcript". HE was there, listening, has served with honour, hasn't been caught lying YET, unlike DJT,

RE:or others who hate Trump who were in on the phone calls would have ALSO mentioned them, doncha think?

How 'bout others who tolerate Trump, to a point, but love America more? They shall be known as whistle blower/witnesses?

Trump?...Love him?...Hate him?....Tolerate him?...Work around him? I could go on.

RE:And just where IS that bridge that's up for sale?????

It will be listed after HE unloads that dump HE's trying to sell in Washington, DC.

Post was last edited on November 14, 2019 7:25 PM PST

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Even the 'whistleblower'

never mentioned in HIS transcript a 'Biden tape'....doncha think that SOMEBODY who was considered to be a SOURCE of HIS information would have leaked that 'bombshell' to him?

You're fishing hugely for a crime that was never committed, JP. And YOU are the one trying to sell that bridge....not Trump.

The ONLY tape of Biden that the world knows about is one where HE admits to a threat to the Ukranian president if he didn't fire the prosecutor investigating HIS son.

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RE: HE admits to a threat to the Ukranian president

Snopes rates the claim as False

A C-SPAN video shows former Vice President Joe Biden confessing that he "bribed" Ukraine to drop the Burisma investigation.

As an impeachment inquiry into U.S. President Donald Trump’s actions commenced in October 2019, so did partisan invocations of whataboutism — a logical fallacy that involves “a reversal of accusation, arguing that an opponent is guilty of an offense just as egregious or worse than what the original party was accused of doing, however unconnected the offenses may be.”

One example of such was a video clip posted to C-SPAN’s website on Sept. 21, 2019 under the title “Joe Biden Confesses to Bribery.” The video was accompanied by a caption reading “Former Vice President Joe Biden confesses to being in charge of Ukraine for the Obama Administration, and withholding $1 billion in loan guarantees from the USA to force Ukraine to fire prosecutor who was looking into the company that Hunter Biden was receiving $83,000+ PER MONTH from”:

The user-created clip fostered a false impression by pairing a misleading caption with an excerpt from a much longer video with no context. (The video carries a statement from C-SPAN noting that “This clip, title, and description were not created by C-SPAN.&rdquoWink

President Trump has been accused by a whistleblower, and is under a House-led impeachment inquiry, for allegedly attempting to coerce Ukraine into provide damaging information on Trump political rival Joe Biden by withholding crucial military aid from that country. The video on C-SPAN’s website attempted to show Biden, a potential political rival for the presidency in 2020, admitting to a parallel wrongdoing during a trip to Ukraine in 2016:

And I went over, I guess, the 12th, 13th time to Kiev. And I was supposed to announce that there was another billion-dollar loan guarantee. And I had gotten a commitment from Poroshenko and from Yatsenyuk that they would take action against the state prosecutor. And they didn’t.

So they said they had — they were walking out to a press conference. I said, nah, I’m not going to — or, we’re not going to give you the billion dollars. They said, you have no authority. You’re not the president. The president said — I said, call him. I said, I’m telling you, you’re not getting the billion dollars. I said, you’re not getting the billion. I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, **************. (Laughter.) He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time.

The video clip was taken from a portion of a talk Biden gave in January 2018 at a Council on Foreign Relations meeting in Washington, D.C., which was held in conjunction with the publication of the January/February issue of Foreign Affairs magazine. Biden had co-authored an article for that month’s issue with former White House official Michael Carpenter, titled “How to Stand Up to the Kremlin: Defending Democracy Against Its Enemies.”

In the excerpted portion of the clip, Biden was discussing his efforts on behalf of the Obama administration to pressure Ukraine into to prosecuting corruption and firing Viktor Shokin, an ineffective prosecutor. That effort by Biden has been used by Trump supporters to argue, inaccurately, that Biden single-handedly had Shokin fired because Shokin was investigating Burisma, a Ukrainian group of energy exploration and production companies of which Biden’s son Hunter was a board member.

However, Shokin was not fired for investigating Burisma, but for his failure to pursue corruption investigations — including investigations connected to Burisma. And Biden wasn’t alone in the effort to push Shokin out, but rather was spearheading the Obama administration’s policy, which represented a consensus among diplomats, officials from various European countries, and the International Monetary Fund that Shokin was an impediment to rooting out corruption in his country, according to Bloomberg:

Shokin became prosecutor general in February 2015. Over the next year, the U.S. and the International Monetary Fund criticized officials for not doing enough to fight corruption in Ukraine …

The U.S. plan to push for Shokin’s dismissal didn’t initially come from Biden, but rather filtered up from officials at the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, according to a person with direct knowledge of the situation. Embassy personnel had called for U.S. loan guarantees to Ukraine to be tied to broader anti-corruption efforts, including Shokin’s dismissal, this person said.

Biden’s threat to withhold $1 billion [in U.S. loan guarantees] if Ukraine didn’t crack down on corruption reportedly came in March [2016]. That same month, hundreds of Ukrainians demonstrated outside President Petro Poroshenko’s office demanding Shokin’s resignation, and he was dismissed.

Moreover, among the reasons the U.S. and others sought Shokin’s ouster was his failure to assist with or pursue an investigation of Burisma Holdings’ owner:

Hunter Biden joined [Burisma’s] board in April 2014, two months after U.K. authorities requested information from Ukraine as part of a probe against [Burisma Holdings owner Mykola] Zlochevsky related to money laundering allegations. Zlochevsky had been minister of environmental protection under then-President Viktor Yanukovych, who fled to Russia in February 2014 after mass protests.

After the U.K. request, Ukrainian prosecutors opened their own case, accusing Zlochevsky of embezzling public funds. Burisma and Zlochevsky have denied the allegations.

The case against Zlochevsky and his Burisma Holdings was assigned to Shokin, then a deputy prosecutor. But Shokin and others weren’t pursuing it, according to the internal reports from the Ukrainian prosecutor’s office reviewed by Bloomberg.

In a December 2014 letter, U.S. officials warned Ukrainian prosecutors of negative consequences for Ukraine over its failure to assist the U.K., which had seized Zlochevsky’s assets, according to the documents.

Shokin took no action to pursue cases against Zlochevsky throughout 2015, said [Vitaliy] Kasko, who was Shokin’s deputy overseeing international cooperation and helping in asset-recovery investigations. Kasko said he had urged Shokin to pursue the investigations.

“There was no pressure from anyone from the U.S. to close cases against Zlochevsky,” Kasko said in an interview. “It was shelved by Ukrainian prosecutors in 2014 and through 2015.”

That’s not to say the former vice president’s 2018 commentary at the Council on Foreign Relations meeting was worded well. Before his remarks morphed into “evidence” for claims that Biden ordered Ukraine to fire Shokin for investigating Burisma, they were picked up by Russian government-controlled outlets such as RT and Sputnik to levy accusations that the Obama administration was engaged in heavy-handed meddling in Ukraine’s affairs.

Biden’s remarks can bee seen in full in the video below:

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Your prose is too prolix.

Anyway, it corroborates the boilerplate in Reuters' Ukraine stories. 'Ukraine is struggling with two problems mainly. War with Russia and widespread corruption.'
Biden's 'no money' threat was designed to keep dollars out of the hands of known corrupt high officials; it worked. At least for a while ... "And they put in place someone who was solid at the time." From your post; emphasis added. Welcome to Ukraine. Poor Alex T and Mila K.

BO and Trump monies were both aimed at the war with Russia. Per Biden's account, more of that money went to guns vice dachas.
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RE:And just where IS that bridge that's up for sale?????

Next to that dump in Washington, DC that Trump is trying to unload.

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Vindeman guilty of violating USMCJ

It clearly states all is to be done through one's chain of command. Vindeman went "free agent" instead. For that he should at least be officially "reprimanded" or even face an "article 15".

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RE:It clearly states all is to be done through one's chain o
It clearly states all is to be done through one's chain of command.

Makes a person wonder WHY a country would even PASS a whistle blower protection act doesn't it?

I mean IF you have to report wrongdoing to the people doing the wrong, you might as well cut your tongue out OR stab yourself in the heart.


Following that July 10 meeting, Vindman testified that he told Sondland “that his statements were inappropriate, that the request to investigate Biden and his son had nothing to do with national security, and that such investigations were not something the NSC was going to get involved in or push.”

Two weeks later, Vindman said, he had many of the same concerns after listening to the July 25 call between Trump and Zelensky.

“I did not think it was proper to demand that a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen, and I was worried about the implications for the U.S. government’s support of Ukraine,” he testified on Oct. 29. Following that call, Vindman again reported his concerns to the NSC’s lead counsel.

Post was last edited on November 16, 2019 11:38 AM PST

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Vindeman, his bias took over
" I was worried about the implications for the U.S. government’s support of Ukraine,”"

Yeah, because he was from a Jewish-Ukrainian family which emigrated from Ukraine to America. Divided Loyalty.
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RE: because he was from a Jewish-Ukrainian family

Carry on without me, fill your boot.

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LOL, we all need wading boots

just to get through every day's news now.

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RE:we all need wading boots

Hip-waders, thanks to DJT since he has been working on his PHD.

Piling it Higher and Deeper

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That special piece of

equipment belongs to the world because of Adam Schiff, not Trump....or do you honestly believe all the crap he's been slinging for three years already?

You KNOW nothing is going to come of this again expensive ***** show, right?

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RE:You KNOW nothing is going to come of this
You KNOW nothing is going to come of this again expensive ***** show, right?

Expensive?....You would put a dollar figure on the integrity of the United States of America?

IF there is nothing to find...they will find nothing.

IF you believe it's the Dems doing their thing...Let them do it....then when the Republicans get their "kick at the can" let them do their thing.

Of course by the time the Reps get their kick at the can, public opinion could be swayed against them and they lose in the end(in the 2020 election)...OR the Dems could lose.

Post was last edited on November 18, 2019 5:50 AM PST

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Would be ad hominem, but "irrelevant" tops that.

Your take on Bill's Snopes post? I found it quite revealing.
Especially since it seemed to be addressing one of the "fake" political postings we inquiring minds have been warned about.

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Ill-advised IMO:

"Vindman is a serving military member and [therefore?] his integrity is beyond reproach"
Like Oliver North? Like Lt Calley?
He has since repeated his statements under oath, to proper authorities. Let the mill of Congress grind it out.

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"he pushes back just like his father"

I'll assume you refer to the '$ sacrifice = life sacrifice' statements.

> He showed lack of empathy toward people who acted on their beliefs- at ~$30 a month and found back in '42- while he talks about his. For money.
> He insulted their survivors.
> A tenet of 'the American way' is that those who are Americans now, owe their freedom to those particular ones who didn't come back. How's your son BTW? Safe? Healthy? Alive so far? I sincerely hope so.

"just like his father".

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