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The reason I keep asking for a mainstream source for

by Ziks511 / October 14, 2013 2:45 PM PDT

things I find hard to believe is that I was once part of a loose aggregation who tended to believe conspiracy theories. It was called being a university student in the late 60's. Any number of bull**** stories were floated around by provocateurs. Don't know if anyone saw Paul Krassner's disgusting cover article of the Realist regarding the Kennedy assassination, but that was pretty vile, and also utterly unconvincing. I had another friend try to convince me that the word "negro" really came from the Latin "necro" meaning dead, instead of the Spanish "negro" meaning black. That killed his credibility as far as I was concerned and I rarely had much to do with him after that.

Skip forward many years, and I had an arch-conservative friend who listened to Michael Reagan on the radio as if he was the voice of God and repeated everything Mr R said, including the idea that Vince Foster was assassinated by the Clintons or someone on their behalf because "he knew too much". Yeah, right.

It's easy to make up stories and promulgate them. And with the First Amendment, it's hard to squelch those stories, or the National Enquirer would have been out of business decades ago.

Consequently when I hear something the first time, I put it in the "Sandbox" where it can do no harm to my personal Operating System, and wait for cooler heads and more considered information to arrive before I let it out to play with my nerve endings.

I told my Mother in Law that she must have been wrong when she reported the impact of the first jet on the twin towers, because it seemed impossible. But I also went to the Television to check, and of course had to apologize for disbelieving her.

Neither group of extremists is to be believed straight away. Everything should be held until further confirmation establishes the veracity of the thing being alleged. It used to be newspaper policy that for every scoop there had to be two confirmations from reliable sources. The News people around Dan Rather forgot that and cost him his job and CBS decades of credibility. Now I still think there are questions about W.'s ANG service, but I don't think we'll ever find what the truth really is, so as far as I'm concerned it can just moulder on the shelf with all the other puzzles, like the disappearance of Judge Crater..


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I find that interesting and revealing
by TONI H / October 14, 2013 6:24 PM PDT

" I had another friend try to convince me that the word "negro" really came from the Latin "necro" meaning dead, instead of the Spanish "negro" meaning black. That killed his credibility as far as I was concerned and I rarely had much to do with him after that."

To not have much to do with someone and stating that 'killed his credibility' as far as you were concerned because they were wrong about something being debated and your obsession with being right all the time is a pretty radical response.

I wonder if your MIL should have reacted the same way towards you when you were proved wrong instead of accepting your apology and getting on with her life. Do you forgive someone's wrongs as easily? I don't think so.

Perhaps someone being wrong about something isn't something you just obsess over trying to prove they are wrong and cutting them out of your life is an inappropriate and over-reactive response. It must really rip out your guts when someone else bests you.

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I'd think the words could very well be related
by Steven Haninger / October 14, 2013 6:54 PM PDT

"Necro" is said to derive from the Greek "nekros" which refers to a corpse. The Greek language preceded Latin but the two coexisted for some time. It's also not unusual for descriptive words to be borrowed when people mingle. Spanish derives from the Latin and the word Niger is said to have come the area of Rome where Latin was spoken and black person were not that uncommon there. In fact, a person's name might end with the word "Niger" to describe them as being dark skinned. So the description really had to do with darkness and don't we think of death as turning from light to dark? Don't corpses darken? I think it could all fit but I don't think we should make too much out of it or should we believe that dark skinned persons were likened to the state of being dead.

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I recognize that connection, but don't think that the
by Ziks511 / October 14, 2013 11:28 PM PDT

original roots are related. As you say, Latin adopted the Greek word for dead. They also adopted hippos for horse, but its pronunciation changed over time to equus. Zeus, king of the Greek gods travelled to Latin as Diu piter, or Jupiter Z in Greek is pronounced "dz" so Diu piter was pronounced Dziupiter, which is easily transformed to Jupiter. Oh, and Diu piter means Day Father in Greek and Zeus in its declension is a reference to Day, just as Apollo is a reference to the Sun. Essentially the Greeks split the two attributes of the Sun into two separate words and two Gods. They also adopted a number of Near Eastern deities into the Greek Pantheon, the most obvious of which is Artemis.

Latin is a language much influenced by Greek language and culture as the older, more mature, and more cultured society which Romans respected. It is also rooted in the Italic dialects, many of which still persist in Italy today. Greek colonies covered the area up the Italian boot reasonably near to Latium the area around Rome. Naples was founded by the Greeks as Neapolis, literally New Town. Sicily was almost entirely a Greek colony at least around the coast. Even Marseille started out as a Greek colony, as did Gades, now known as Cadiz in Spain. Few cultures were as comfortable with sea travel as the Greeks, who had colonies all around the Black Sea, the Middle East viz. Antioch, and Alexandria, and in Libya and Tunisia

Etruscan, a non-Indo-European language and still untranslated, was the language of the tribal area just north of Rome and Latium, may have contributed some few words, but had a much greater influence on cultural observances. The gladiatorial games derive from the funeral observances of the Etruscan upper crust and royalty.

Niger I think comes from farther away, somewhere in the Middle East. I believe it is related to the word for pepper, the spice, and heaven knows peppercorns are black.


I'm not addicted to being right, Toni, I'm addicted to knowing things and being able to talk intelligently with a wide variety of people. When someone advances an argument I know to be wrong, or false, or simply seems illogical, I do tend to offer what I know not as simple contradiction, but as a corrective so that discussion can continue without misinformation. If that makes me arrogant or overbearing in your view, I regret it, but I'm not about to change.

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I didn't say you were addicted
by TONI H / October 14, 2013 11:47 PM PDT

to being right....I said you were obsessed with it. There are huge differences between someone advancing an argument you "know" to be wrong (perhaps you only BELIEVE it to be), or false, or simply seems illogical. Illogical means it makes no sense to YOU, not necessarily to the person stating it because they view things differently. False and wrong could be similar in meanings as many people mistakenly believe they are the same thing...but not so.

False: has many meanings, but most backtrack to something not true and advanced deliberately as true
Wrong: also has many meanings, but only one of which could be 'untrue' and most of that is because of an accidental and not a deliberate mistake in facts

If you 'know' something is wrong or false, it could be only because one of the two parties is mistaken.
If you 'know' something is illogical, it could be just different views of the same ideas or facts.

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I viewed it as an act of disrespect that he should try such
by Ziks511 / October 14, 2013 10:46 PM PDT

a transparent ploy against me, as if playing me for a fool. He was smirking as he said it, and that seemed to indicate a lack of respect both for the truth and for me as a person. I saw him as much as before, but didn't trust what he said after that point because he was clearly more attached to deceiving people politically than he was with being truthful or honestly debating issues. Disrespect is a greater offence than simply being wrong.

You don't know me well enough to know how well or badly I forgive people. After all that happened I invited my MIL to live with us, in order to help her with her living expenses, and to ensure that Robbie would have a close relationship with her, since he hadn't had that chance with my parents. We became very close, and she was very appreciative of my honesty and warmth toward her. More than that I will not say, except to say there is much more to say.

I'm not enormously delighted to be proved wrong, but I expect it to happen quite regularly, because despite being well informed and having an unusually retentive memory, I'm far from perfect. I tend to cultivate people who know more than I do in order to continue learning.


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I wonder
by TONI H / October 14, 2013 11:30 PM PDT

if your friend wasn't deliberately pulling your chain for your reaction to pull you into a phony 'debate', much like some members here in SE do?

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RE: much like some members here in SE do?
by JP Bill / October 14, 2013 11:37 PM PDT
In reply to: I wonder

"some members", BUT not you?

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You just proved my point.....
by TONI H / October 14, 2013 11:50 PM PDT

and it's uncanny how you knew that it was you I was specifically referring to. You have perfected the art of 'bait' but every so often you actually bite at it yourself.

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by JP Bill / October 15, 2013 12:19 AM PDT

If everyone was as tolerant of other peoples opinions, and forgiving as you are, it would be beautiful on this planet.

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RE: so often you actually bite at it yourself.
by JP Bill / October 15, 2013 12:22 AM PDT

I recall one post where you asked ME to bite YOU.

OH wait!!! you didn't "ask" you "told" me to....Dominatrix?

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wrong forum if you're looking
by James Denison / October 15, 2013 12:50 AM PDT

for that sort of action. Try another?

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NO Dominatrix here?
by JP Bill / October 15, 2013 5:37 AM PDT

Perhaps there are some Masochists.

Complain about what liberal rags write? Don't read them?

Complain about people that quote liberal rags? Don't read/respond to their posts?

IF/WHEN you complain about something and then respond/read/listen to the stuff you're complaining about, YOU could be a Masochist.

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That door
by TONI H / October 15, 2013 6:40 AM PDT
In reply to: NO Dominatrix here?

swings both ways when liberals here don't like conservative 'rags' that are used as links/sources.

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Are you admitting
by JP Bill / October 15, 2013 8:01 AM PDT
In reply to: That door

that you're guilty of the same thing you accuse others of?

OR just saying I'm guilty of the same thing you accuse others of?

IF I don't receive an affirmative one word answer...I won't be surprised.

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Yes....and Yes
by TONI H / October 15, 2013 9:09 AM PDT
In reply to: Are you admitting

Surprise........I answered both of your questions in one word. Now what do you admit to?

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You can't answer both questions in the affirmative...
by JP Bill / October 15, 2013 10:25 AM PDT
In reply to: Yes....and Yes

Think about it.....

IF I said

AND saying I'm guilty of the same thing you accuse others of?

THEN you could have said yes to both questions.

Instead of

OR just saying I'm guilty of the same thing you accuse others of?

IF I asked you if you were going to walk OR drive somewhere and you answered "Yes" would you be walking or driving?

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by JP Bill / October 15, 2013 1:05 PM PDT
In reply to: Yes....and Yes
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Since you have decided that I can't
by TONI H / October 15, 2013 4:16 PM PDT
In reply to: Yes....and Yes

answer both, then I go with door number 2....YOU are guilty.

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by JP Bill / October 15, 2013 9:28 PM PDT
In reply to: Yes....and Yes

Don't let door #2 hit you on the way out......

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Where you are at
by James Denison / October 16, 2013 2:21 AM PDT
In reply to: Yes....and Yes

do they number the doors? Devil

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Re:Where you are at
by JP Bill / October 16, 2013 10:25 AM PDT
In reply to: Yes....and Yes

Where you are at do they number the doors?

Like in a hotel/motel?

Are you talking to me?

If so....

You're getting curiouser and curiouser.

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I guess I miss the significance
by James Denison / October 15, 2013 12:21 AM PDT

of comparing "necro" to black people? Was there some point he was trying to make?

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The point he was trying to make was that the term Negro
by Ziks511 / October 15, 2013 1:39 AM PDT

was even more offensive to Black people because it was derived not from a word for black but from a word for dead. It was a dumb statement, and even dumber to expect me to swallow it.

It's the sort of sophomoric hair-splitting argument common in University, where this occurred. I had generally found Gayne (he was Chinese) interesting if rather too extreme for me. When he pulled that little bit of provocative and in my view deliberately misleading bit of information, he lost that interest for me. One needs a certain honesty to participate in an discussion. It seemed pretty clear to me he was trying to see what I'd swallow. It was a stupidity test, which I found offensive, since we'd known one another for more than a year.

I keep repeating that it was an act of disrespect for my intelligence which I declined to accept.


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