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General discussion

The perpetual liar strikes again

May 2, 2019 6:45AM PDT

Discussion is locked

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Even your linked article supports Trump's statements
May 2, 2019 8:34AM PDT

"conventional" "small" arms......what does that mean to you? Handguns, Bob.....

If you look further into the article it states "It aims to “prevent and eradicate the illicit trade in conventional arms” by prohibiting cross-border sales when U.N. arms embargoes would be violated, or when exporting nations suspect the weapons would be used by importers to commit war crimes, genocide, terrorism or other offenses against civilians."  This gives the UN control over deciding this.

And further...."ATT would likely require no significant changes to policy, regulations, or law"....yeah, right.....until it DOES.

And further...." one that was generated and propagated by the NRA, politicians and other special-interest groups to prey on fears of ‘full-scale gun confiscation’"....You already have at least ONE Dem candidate running for President that has advocated for that "reality" (Swalwell) and he did it publicly in a recent interview.

As I've said many times. Dems always look for 'short term' immediate gratification 'solutions' and never look down that long road for the consequences of what they do.....UNLESS it's to further a TRUE agenda and ULTIMATE goal.

And most gun manufacturers are outside the USA where the UN and the EU has the most power.....just look at what is happening to the people of Venezuela right now that Chavez and Maduro have confiscated civilians weapons stating 'all guns belong to the government' and close all gun stores in the country.  Now only the gangs and the military have them and BOTH have terrorized the whole country.

Post was last edited on May 2, 2019 8:36 AM PDT

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"conventional" "small" arms
May 2, 2019 9:47AM PDT

It means those handguns you keep in the cookie jar and desk drawers.

It also means that ak-47 which you pack when you go out to pick up the mail.

Did att say anything about taking those away from you?

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Since you have
May 2, 2019 1:40PM PDT

decided to be ridiculous in your reply, I can only assume you didn't bother to read or comprehend your own article. Do you know that most deaths are caused by handguns and not AK's? Didn't think so.....

IF the ATT/UN makes a decision that handguns being imported from overseas COULD be used against civilians, it is MORE likely they will be banned than NOT.

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RE: Do you know that most deaths are caused by handguns and
May 2, 2019 1:48PM PDT

Do you know that most deaths are caused by handguns and not AK's? Didn't think so.....

In MASS shootings?.....Didn't think so.....

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You begin with the camel's nose, Bob
May 3, 2019 3:37AM PDT

Ban one, eventually all are....the Constitution itself makes no distinction about arms. Literally a complete amendment to that document, which would have to be ratified by the States themselves is the only way to ban guns (of any description) to make it a FEDERAL LAW. Many States have created their OWN laws, and those can be overturned/repealed by States' governments.
The 2017 bill that Feinstein has presented and is going nowhere, specifically has the same type of wording that Clinton's 1996 bill had....and that includes the 'IMPORTATION' of specific automatic AND SEMI-automatic weapons, but her bill includes HANDGUNS. Which is exactly what 'helps' the UN's authority over the USA in that treaty....and which is why the treaty has never been ratified by Congress.

And yes...MANY mass shootings are done with SEMI-automatic handguns. You act as if pulling a trigger over and over is harder for a handgun than an AK....bullets come out of both at the same speed (pretty much) and it only depends on how fast someone can use finger action on that trigger, Bob. At least do your homework on guns before you put your foot completely in your mouth.

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If/if/if
May 3, 2019 4:29AM PDT

If the UN did decide to ban some gun import/export it might bring some sanity to the guns available on the market and start us on the road to controlling guns.

We start with taking away all guns from righty's....they are a loopy bunch.

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Actually,
May 3, 2019 5:53AM PDT

lobotomies for liberals would be a much better choice, since most mass shooters are liberals, not righties.....and it would help with politics as well.

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Seriously?
May 3, 2019 2:47PM PDT

Hi Toni,

Lobotomies? I really hope you are kidding. And I'd be quite interested if you could provide a link backing up your claim... I have heard this before, but every time it has been put forth it's been de-bunked.

reference : https://www.politifact.com/new-york/statements/2018/feb/23/claudia-tenney/do-many-mass-shooters-end-being-democrats-rep-tenn/

or: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html?action=click&module=RelatedCoverage&pgtype=Article&region=Footer

Rick

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Yes, I was being tongue in cheek
May 4, 2019 4:16AM PDT

however, there really IS a difference in Dems today compared to even ten years ago.....Dems USED to call themselves 'progressives' because they realized that 'liberals' wasn't seen as something good to a good majority of their voters. Now it seems they aren't even happy with calling themselves progressives anymore....they try to convince themselves and others that they are 'moderates' when, in fact, they have allowed themselves to be pushed into the 'radical left' area, and it's a pretty dangerous game.....and some don't even care that they are wide open about it. Unfortunately, as they become more open about their views, their supporters are 'being given permission' by those politicians to be more and more volatile....

Dem politicians and their liberal media are constantly blaming Trump for his rhetoric and language for stirring up the division and violence and the only things he's said that they point to over and over are his long ago statements of "Mexicans are rapists and murderers" and referring to the 'Muslim ban' (neither are true since he also said that 'some Mexicans are good people' and it was a TRAVEL ban using the identical countries that BO had listed that needed banning).

BUT, if you look at the BO history of events regarding riots and statements made by his supporters, including "I wanna punch him in the face" (DeNiro), "I've thought about bombing the WH" (Madonna), "When's the last time an actor killed a President" (Depp), et al....show me where ANY Democrat denounced/condemned THAT speech as inciting violence?

Media coverage over the last 13 years has proven over and over again that the violence and riots have almost ALL come from the radicalized left with little or no consequences to the perps...especially with the riots and burnings and total disruption of highways they've blocked and historical sites/statues destroyed. When NOTHING happens in the court systems to punish those actions, more are given permission to continue the behavior.....(and if that sounds familiar regarding the illegals pouring into our country, so be it).

BO loved repeating the phrase "elections have consequences"....and yet the Dems and liberal left refuse to see that that door swings both ways. Even though Justice John Roberts illegally changed the wording of ONE word in Obamacare in order for it to become law, even HE said in his essay that 'you get what you vote for'. The PEOPLE voted for Trump.....when do you think Dems/liberals and the liberal media will accept that vote and deal with the 'consequences' of that? WE had to deal with BO and HIS crap....why should we have to CONTINUE to deal with it?

Because Dems/liberals don't think rules THEY were all too happy to throw at US apply to them. And it's obvious to the rest of the USA population that whatever the Dems ACCUSE Conservatives/Republicans of is what THEY are ACTUALLY DOING. And if they don't pay the consequences for their actions EVER it will continue and get worse.

THEY are the perpetual liars and the people are finally seeing it published.....the NYT is finally beginning to report SOME of it. Do you think the OTHER liberal media outlets will be forced to as well?

The DEMS at this point in time are literally eating their own but the media who support them are already picking and choosing FOR them who the next candidate will be. They were wrong before and will be again but that won't stop them......

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Nice to hear
May 4, 2019 5:27PM PDT

Hi Toni,

Glad for the clarification. I think the term 'liberal' had become a derogatory term quite some time ago, though, perhaps as early as the sixties, maybe even earlier. As I recall ( I was born in '59 ), around the mid to late sixties and then early seventies and on, the term became associated with "hippies" and, crucially, radical activists and even militant groups. People like the SDS, Black Panthers, the "Weather Underground Organization", etc. were actively linked by those on the right to common, everyday "hippies", back-to-nature types and even people not normally thought of as in anyway radical.

With this perceptual shift, thought by many at the time and later as a direct attack on free and widespread dissent of U.S. and other countries' policies ( i.e. environmental issues such as pollution, strip-mining, accelerating disregard for resource depletion, etc., the war in Vietnam, sexual freedom, drug policies, race issues, etc.), "liberals" became demonized. They were characterized broadly as being naive ( some, perhaps many, were, I'll grant!). While through the Clean Air Act and other legislation several steps forward were made, even under LBJ and Nixon (!), the trend toward rejecting liberal ideology solidified into a general distrust by many on the right toward *anything* promulgated by 'those freaks' who had the temerity to question authority.[ Heck, I grew up in Texas at the time and remember in '70 or '71 riding on a school bus in Huntsville and remarking to another kid "why are the black kids in the rear of the carriage?"( I'd just arrived from six years in London, where such a practice was unknown). He looked at me like I was from another planet, and said "that's where n------ belong". Thankfully we soon moved to Houston, where racism was still apparent though much less so.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that while your view of "progressives" (blanket term) may be valid, may be correct in your eyes, I do not think it is how they themselves think. I cannot easily dismiss the 'left' (radical or otherwise) as being naive or misguided, as not being intelligent people who yearn for a better world. Perhaps that is the crux - similar to how astronauts, cosmonauts, taikonauts and anyone who has seen the Earth in her glory from space - these folk see our planet as a very precious, extraordinary place. We should do all we can to listen to those who think of the long term, and weigh their opinions of what we should do about now and the future with utmost care and consideration.

If as you note the Dems/liberals have committed crimes and misdemeanors, fabrications and manipulations, assorted subvertions of the rule of law both in letter and spirit, the truth will out. It just may happen slower than desired.

As for perpetual liars, how do you believe *anyone* would react to such a characterization? No one would like it. Indeed, human behaviour being what it is, would one not expect a certain amount of vitriol to be thrown back, in kind? I think that's what is happening. The Republicans have acted in word and deed as if the Democrats are all crazy, pie-the-sky lunatics, and the Dems have responded in turn. Or some have - just as some Repubs have and have not. Again a crux - willingness to consider another's view as tacitly valid, to be considered rather than rejected out-of-hand.

Whether this both cultural and ideological impasse was initiated by one side or the other is moot at this point. I just wish we could all calm down enough to find compromise - the way Congress was able to do for (perhaps brief) times in the past. Also, I really wish we could look better, as a nation, in the eyes of the world. Forget nationalism, forget "the good old days" of pre-global trade. They are gone, for good or ill. I'd say for good, as thinking globally is the only way our kids, theirs,
and theirs, are going to have a future which resembles our own past and present. No matter what we do, it's going to be difficult, so dreaming for a past imagined glory will distract us from present realities.

Rick " leftist freak " Jones

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For the most part
May 5, 2019 3:34AM PDT

I agree with you. The 'perpetual liar' remark didn't come from me...it's actually the original topic of this entire thread and I tossed it back to prove a point to that poster.

The last time I can tell where we actually had a number of Blue Dog moderate Dems was during the beginning of BO's first term....and they all left after the Obamacare vote because they realized they had been lied to by BO himself in order to get their votes. I distinctly remember that gang of about twelve at the end who were pro-life people and being promised by BO that he would issue an EO to cover that part since it wasn't included in the bill.....and he never did. The same type of bold-faced lying occurred during the notorious 'omnibus' budget bill that Boehner and BO were in the middle of....a deal was struck, and at the last minute BO's finance guy (Lew) changed it to include an additional $400M in spending and Boehner walked away from it, causing the shutdown. When you can't trust the President's word (both Reps and Dems) because he lies to your face without regard to party lines and respect because of a personal agenda, things go badly for the country itself....and BO did it often and many times with the help of Harry Reid pocketing bills that were passed with bi-partisan support in the House so they never came up for a vote. And Reid is the one who changed Senate rules in order to get Obamacare passed when Scott got Kennedy's seat and would have been the vote needed to defeat it.

THIS is the type of actions by the Dems that have soured so many of us Conservatives when it comes to 'compromise' that we were all used to in Congress and why most of us don't trust them anymore. They've become so open and 'in your face' about 'promises' they make that they don't hesitate to pull away once they have gotten what they want in a so-called 'compromise'.

I'm not saying that Republicans are the perfect choice, either....but if they are now turning the tables on Dems with some of their actions, it's because they have learned from the best of the bull....ers and refuse to play their game anymore and have begun to fight back hard against it where we were stupid wimps before and always caved. What became habit for the Republicans in the name of 'compromise' with crossed fingers that Dems wouldn't be Lucy with the football again and expected behavior by the Dems has become total turmoil for them now and they don't know how to react to the push back now.

I hope you can 'see' the frustration Reps have going on and at least understand part of it.....especially with this last straw of deception by that party against a duly elected President of the USA....and it wouldn't matter to me which party that President came from. If GWB had done this to BO, I don't think we would have a Republican city left to live in because it would have been burnt to the ground. Give us credit for our restraint over the feigned and fake outrage right now.....especially since so many on the left continue to refuse to acknowledge that it actually happened just as we've been saying it did all along and the proof just keeps coming.

In my opinion only....if the entire Dem party has to be 'scorched earth' and rebooted as a decent entity again where it's actually OK to say 'Pence is a decent guy' or 'Cheney is a decent man' without being attacked for it by his own party (Biden) even though I don't agree with his policies, I believe it needs to happen.

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Yes, I can see the frustration
May 6, 2019 4:10PM PDT

I can also see the frustration Dems have for the same actions in reverse.

Maybe I'm too much of an idealist, but I still hope we can find common ground on the important issues. What I think Dems are most annoyed by regarding Trump is his attempt to distract the country from those important
issues by saturating the news with outrageous tweets and deflections. For example, I don't think we have a real crisis at our southern border - at least not the crisis
HE talks about. We _do_ have very serious problems with healthcare and climate change, among other topics, that he pays scant attention to.

So, that and other actions and in-actions by our president give them (Dems) constant, daily reminders of what he is for, what he intends to do or not do, and it really isn't good for the majority of the country. I hope to be proven wrong - this land has such great people and has had such a grand history. *That* is what many are fearful of - losing the noble ideals of our ancestors to a narrow, short-term ideology that cares nothing of the long term ramifications.

Rick

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The crisis at the border
May 7, 2019 3:44AM PDT

IS a very real critical issue, Rick....and it has huge ramifications regarding "We _do_ have very serious problems with healthcare and climate change, among other topics, that he pays scant attention to. "

Although I don't have the same concerns about 'climate change' that some have (much has been debunked over the last few years by scientists just as knowledgeable and credentialed as those crying 'the sky is falling'), the health care issue is vital.

Economically, when you consider that illegals are getting more and more benefits from Obamacare (which mandated States that opted in to massively increase their Medicaid participation), you wind up with healthcare COVERAGE, not necessarily health CARE, costing the LEGAL taxpayers billions of dollars that COULD go towards getting better services for those paying the bill. No matter how many ways liberals spin it, when Congressman Joe Wilson called BO a liar about this issue, he was right.

Illegals don't just drain the economy when it comes to healthcare coverage....housing, education, food stamps, dental, eyeglasses, interpreters in schools now in a wide variety of languages, attorney representation in the court systems, judges, increased border agents, increased ICE agents, etc not to mention all the additional money needed to temporarily house, feed, and medically treat them at the border itself.

Solve the illegal immigration issue first and massive amounts of money is saved for REAL issues that come to a screeching halt because of lack of funds or look at being further in debt to China.....

You state (concerning our history) "a narrow, short-term ideology that cares nothing of the long term ramifications." but that statement directly is in line with the crisis at the border and the liberal ideology. They are more concerned with people from other countries than the people who they actually represent.

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drain the economy
May 7, 2019 1:14PM PDT

I think that's a ruse. Both legal and illegal immigrants put in as much or more than they "take out". Though as the last linked article below, notes, it's complex.

See : https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-immigrants-and-public-benefits/

Also : https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/4-myths-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy

And : https://news.gallup.com/poll/213152/americans-say-immigrants-help-rather-hurt-economy.aspx

Finally : https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/trump-clinton-immigration-economy-unemployment-jobs-214216 < which shows perhaps the "truth" ( in quotes because no one seems to know what that word means, anymore !)

Rick

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Note the tone of
May 7, 2019 4:21PM PDT

sarcasm here....'you guys' all make the same argument; however, it goes with the assumption that the illegals ALL work when they arrive and that's a crock. The drain is much more than you want to admit, unfortunately.

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better to note the sources quoted
May 8, 2019 12:55PM PDT

.

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RE:You act as if pulling a trigger over and over
May 3, 2019 12:35PM PDT
You act as if pulling a trigger over and over is harder for a handgun

Pulling the trigger is the easy part

Jamming 60 rounds into a six shooter is the hard part....While the shooter is reloading they could be taken down.....

A round from an Assault Weapon is way more destructive than a round from a handgun...That's why the military use Assault Weapons.
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So....'jamming rounds into a six shooter'
May 4, 2019 4:18AM PDT

is your answer.....which means ALL handguns with a clip should ALSO be banned. And there you have it...……..the camel's nose just turned into the neck and shoulders under that tent.

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RE:neck and shoulders under that tent.
May 4, 2019 8:41AM PDT

Once the other end of the camel is "in the tent" we'll hopefully never hear from it again.

PS: What is YOUR "line in the sand"?

What weapons and how many SHOULD a private individual be permitted to have?

Post was last edited on May 4, 2019 9:31 AM PDT

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As many and what kind
May 5, 2019 3:40AM PDT

is allowed and legal by the Constitution, which does NOT have a designation for either. As for what has ALREADY been deemed to be illegal are things like missiles, bombs, hand grenades, etc. and I'm ok with that. Everything else that is legal per that document today is off limits. If I can legally own a TANK, I can legally own my guns.

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RE: If I can legally own a TANK, I can legally own my guns.
May 5, 2019 4:27AM PDT

So, how many tanks do you own?

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actually
May 8, 2019 12:57PM PDT

It is a harder to use a revolver when pulling the stiffer trigger, and actually hit the target, a lot easier with semi and magazine loaded handgun.

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And yet, two kids
May 8, 2019 1:28PM PDT

killed one and injured 7 using handguns just yesterday.

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RE: you begin with the camel's nose
May 3, 2019 12:53PM PDT

And the "camel's nose" could also be

let everyone be as well armed as the authorities are...so the authorities have to upgrade....then everyone else is entitled to the same "upgrades"

Next everyone has a nuclear weapon in their arsenal, for SELF defense.

There's a camels nose for ya'.

PS. WHY would a person need an Assault weapon that can fire 60 rounds for SELF defense....are they defending themselves from "the authorities"?

Post was last edited on May 3, 2019 1:44 PM PDT

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Gun lover's are terrified
May 2, 2019 5:32PM PDT

About anything that might repeat might be used to control their guns.

There is nothing in the att about banning your arsenal.

So you go into Trump mode and make up stuff about maybe/maybe/maybe.

The Don is sucking around for votes so he pre-emps a pull out based on a maybe.

If the UN did as you say could we not pull out then?

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I have NO doubt that
May 3, 2019 3:42AM PDT

once you allow your liberties to be taken away, they are nearly impossible to get back.....just like Dems giving away freebies....once given, people are reluctant to allow you to change your mind and stop them. THAT is what we are MORE terrified of.....MORE DEMS controlling our lives because they ALWAYS believe they are smarter than WE are about taking care of ourselves so they MUST do it FOR us. And NONE of that is made up stuff, Bob....liberals have been doing it to us for far too long already. IF there is a 'maybe' loophole ANYWHERE, Dems will exploit it every time.

Stay the hell out of our lives...……..

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You did not answer the question
May 3, 2019 4:48AM PDT

So trying again.
If the UN did as you say could we not pull out then?

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Nope...I did answer
May 3, 2019 5:54AM PDT

It would be too late...once something liberals implement is in place, it's nearly impossible to undo.

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ATT
May 3, 2019 6:25AM PDT

I don't think there is something in the ATT that says we must implement what the UN says.

So your blowing smoke with your liberal stuff.

The Don is blowing smoke with his sovereignty stuff.

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You "don't think"....
May 3, 2019 9:57AM PDT

Did you bother to read it? (Yes, I have)…..once it would be ratified by Congress, it would be international LAW so it would HAVE to be implemented by all those who signed on.