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The party of the little guy

by critic411 / October 19, 2008 1:40 AM PDT
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/michelle-obamas-feasting-and-gluttony


Indeed, in his first autobiography, Dreams From My Father, page 293, Mr. Obama specifically cites a passage from Wright?s sermon ?The Audacity To Hope? that helped inspire him to a life of public service and sacrifice:

It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where white folks? greed runs a world in need, apartheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere? That?s the world! On which hope sits!
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It seems that Rev. Wright doesn't see any desire on the part
by Kiddpeat / October 20, 2008 1:40 AM PDT

of whites to assist other races. I guess that is why whites have sent medical missionaries to people who needed them for hundreds of years. I'm sure blacks have never indulged in sins like cruise ships.

Sigh!

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Those same missionares
by MarkFlax Forum moderator / October 20, 2008 8:12 AM PDT

who forced indigenous peoples to convert to Christianity and 'civilized' them by turning them into servants and cotton pickers. I won't mention slaves.

Ohhh, don't get me wrong, I am fully aware that it was the British and other European nations who did the so called civilizing in the 18th and 19th centuries when we all had our own little empires.

But I find it strange that those of you who argue against mine and others involvement in this forum on matters of US politics and other things, on the grounds that we are still trying to impose our imperialistic past on you, don't see the contradictions in what you say. We've moved on. It seems you cannot.

And by the way, those missionaries for the first couple hundred years were not medical. They didn't treat the sick and the disabled. They preached eternal damnation if the local population didn't convert. And those that resisted? They were punished for their sins by the British and other colonial armies.

I see precious little of "whites" helping other races in history. Sadly, I see precious little of people such as yourselves helping other races now.

Mark

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And did they cannabalize those people? Hang shrunken heads?
by James Denison / October 20, 2008 8:49 AM PDT
In reply to: Those same missionares

Yeah, they didn't do a darn thing there for good, did they?

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Not all of them
by MarkFlax Forum moderator / October 20, 2008 8:52 AM PDT

Many of them were quite civilized in their own way. You should read about some of the things white people did to such peoples. That would make your toes curl.

Is this really your view of Africans James? You seem to have something against them, wherever they now live.

Mark

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what are you talking about?!
by James Denison / October 20, 2008 9:11 AM PDT
In reply to: Not all of them

I don't have anything against them, and what "them" are you speaking of? Missionaries or native Africans? As I recall YOU are the one who expressed concern about it.

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or sacrifice babies
by oldie and goody / October 20, 2008 11:18 AM PDT

to their God's. Yeah Missionaries have done no good at all! As I recall Ruth Grahams Father was a missionary doctor for years in Afica

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Look for gutenberg press online.
by James Denison / October 20, 2008 8:50 AM PDT
In reply to: Those same missionares

Read about Dr. Livingston, learn something, then get back to us with actual knowledge instead of silly sound bytes.

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Ohh, I know a little about Livingston
by MarkFlax Forum moderator / October 20, 2008 9:05 AM PDT

He was one of the first missionaries to even attempt to change the slave trade into something less nasty, but found it difficult to gather support until well past the middle of the century. Incidentally, Stanley who famously found Livingston, was very brutal to his expedition porters.

You miss my point, (f course). My first reply was about the mistaken observation that whites were pure and good in Africa and elsewhere. The fact is, they were anything but.

Mark

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Nobody said everything was wonderful
by James Denison / October 20, 2008 9:14 AM PDT

Some of them weren't, but when you look at what they faced in trying to deal with what equated to little more than cruel savages who were constantly killing others and eating their flesh, keeping various body parts of enemies as totems, it's more understandable.

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So, two cannibals are eating a clown...
by EdHannigan / October 20, 2008 9:17 AM PDT

and one says to the other, "Does this taste funny to you?"

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oh gosh
by James Denison / October 20, 2008 9:28 AM PDT

I've not heard any cannibal jokes in a while. I must yahoo and see if a site carries them.

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There you go again
by MarkFlax Forum moderator / October 20, 2008 9:30 AM PDT

Misrepresenting history.

Sure, some were cannibals. Most were not. And savage is a white term that we employed all too often when we came across people who didn't conform to our religion and religious ethics.

If you had read more about Livingston as you beseeched me to do, you would have known that Livingston had no trouble with the African peoples because he didn't try to ram religion down their throats, and didn't try to change them into people they were not. He worked with them using their own ways and rules, and gained their trust and respect that way.

Mark

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I have and he despised
by James Denison / October 20, 2008 9:37 AM PDT
In reply to: There you go again

..slavery and the Mohamedans who were the biggest traffickers in slaves and showed little regard for the lives of Africans. He also hated the way they treated the women and how they dealt with murderers depending on the perceived value of the one murdered. There were other things, but someone who's interested can just study on it.

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If we're talking history...
by J. Vega / October 20, 2008 11:49 AM PDT
In reply to: Those same missionares

If we're talking history, let's not forget the Dutch ship the White Lion. It was the first recorded instance of slavery in America. The White Lion landed in Virginia needing repairs and supplies, and traded 20 African slaves for food and help with repairs.

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Intereresting statement...
by J. Vega / October 20, 2008 12:06 PM PDT
In reply to: Those same missionares

You said, "But I find it strange that those of you who argue against mine and others involvement in this forum on matters of US politics and other things, on the grounds that we are still trying to impose our imperialistic past on you, don't see the contradictions in what you say. We've moved on. It seems you cannot."
Don't confuse arguing against some of your views with arguing against your being here. Your saying "We've moved on. It seems you cannot." is, in my opinion, throwing the race card. Disagreement with something you say does not mean that that person has not "moved on" with relation to the subject of race. Saying it to someone implies that that person was a racist in the first place.

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RE: Don't confuse arguing against some of your views
by JP Bill / October 21, 2008 8:08 PM PDT

Don't confuse arguing against some of your views with arguing against your being here.

I certainly don't get them confused.

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You have to admit,
by Kiddpeat / October 23, 2008 12:48 AM PDT

you seem to be confused about a lot of things.

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I haven't ever heard of a single missionary who forced
by Kiddpeat / October 21, 2008 3:57 PM PDT
In reply to: Those same missionares

anyone to become a Christian. I have heard of missionaries telling people about Jesus, and how he came to give us eternal life. Sharing such universal truths are a good thing. Such truth frees people from the fear and spiritual slavery that many people live in.

Other missionaries do such bad things as providing medical treatment, developing written languages, teaching people improved farming techniques, and a whole raft of other activities.

The missionaries could have stayed home and lived comfortable lives. Many could have obtained wealth. Instead, they sacrificed their lives to save the lives of other people. It sounds like you would have preferred that they stay home, and let many people die. That's sad.

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I see my mistake now. Gee, I thought Rev. Wright
by Kiddpeat / October 21, 2008 4:08 PM PDT
In reply to: Those same missionares

was probably talking about Americans. That's what I was talking about. Americans. I don't know, or particularly care, how the English tried to use the church to advance its empire. That's one reason the government in the United States is not allowed to involve itself in the church.

Oh, those whites helping other races? I think it was Gladstone in England who fought to end slavery there. I guess ending slavery is "precious little". In the United States, it took 100s of thousands, if not millions, of whites to oppose and finally end slavery. My own great-great-grandfather suffered a dibilitating illness for the rest of his life because he helped with that effort. I guess that is also "precious little".

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