The Man-Made Global Warming Hoax Database

I've got it, he's a lobbyist for "Big Poison Ivy" (grin).

Thank you for your welcome back!

Your caveat is a little perplexing if not outright unsettling. I know in your clarification to me you will allay my concerns.

It appears you are trying pre-frame me, to insinuate, falsely of course, that I am a problematic forum member, that I engage in ad-hominem attacks and do not maintain a tight focus on arguments made by forum members but rather that I have, in the past, insulted the individual making the argument.

While I have been many times insulted here by forum members and, in fact, by two Speakeasy forum moderators, I have yet to initiate a mud slinging contest. On rare occasion, my patience at an end, I have felt compelled to respond in kind to forum members who insult me. That is true. I was likely wrong to do so.

I assure you it was not really my intention to respond to replies to this thread. I merely wanted to leave a solid source of info for concerned individuals. They are free to do with it as they choose.

My posts here frequently go against the right wing, Christian grain of this forum and consequently engender much hostility, hostility that is sometimes expressed in ad-hominem attacks on me. That is not my fault. It is not my fault that forum members can not exercise continence as it relates to their anger at my posts.

My posts are controversial but they are fact based and not intended to insult individuals, but rather provoke new discussion.

I would suggest that in the future, in the interest of fair moderation, that you carefully review these pre-emptive admonitions since you are supposed to be unbiased and work to promote harmony in the CNET community, not the reverse.

The caveat has no hidden meanings. It is intended only to point out that controversial topics can result in personal attacks. ( You noted that you have been subjected to the same attacks by others, and that they become self-perpetuating.) Global warming is more controversial now than in the past.

That led to SE being declared a no politics zone when it became apparent that those topics cold not be civil.

Whether global warming is true or not is a hot and popular topic. So far the issue has produced some fine discussions, and the relatively few comments that were not were deleted, regardless of which view they represented. Such will continue to be the case as humanly possible.

When I started this reply (had to leave for a while) the responses were fine.

Hope you enjoy your time in SE,

Angeline
Speakeasy Moderator

is that most computer models say it's already nearly too late to take effective action (if not even later than that )

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET or the other SE Mods.

(posting from Lake Louise, Alberta -- where the glaciers ARE receding!)

Did you ride your bicycles to get there?

is that the "something" may not be effective or appropriate and may cause more harm than good. If my car's engine is making a funny noise I could "do something" buy hitting it with a sledge hammer, or pouring maple syrup into the cylinder heads. But those things do not fix the problem, only make it worse.

So far I have very little faith in your computer models and less in the so-called solutions offered by the "greens". Opposing nuclear power bitterly is an example, pushing corn ethanol as an alternative fuel is another.

Since you raise the issue of misleading propaganda... You do realize the myth about lemmings was created for a Disney nature "documentary", don't you? They don't really jump off cliffs.

As for the other stuff. While I have read the goings on over at Prison Planet dot com along with Alex Jones' and friends other projects for a few years, I do so with a healthy amount of cynicism. My credo when it comes to any group who has all the "real story" (including any government) is to question everything. View it as a counterpoint to "I want to believe", if you will.

I have had my doubts about the most popular "eco-threats" just as I have had reservations about the idea of "what's good for the free market is good for the individual". History has categorically proved that the free market, does indeed bite the hand that feeds it, if given the chance. As such, the all or nothing argument about global warming presented by both sides of this debate serves to delay dealing with the issue at hand. That there is real pollution that industry can do something about but does not for the sake of their profit margin.

Bottom line, whether you believe global warming is a myth for economic concerns, or worried about the hidden powers manipulating humanity to create a modern serf (serf = slave) population via destruction of the middle class... objections about real pollution issues are being buried by the ridicule. The reality is that the planet will continue to spin if we pollute or not. It will be a nicer place to live though, if we do everything we technologically can to stop polluting our environment.

Of course you may be spot on with your concerns, 13th_level. If so, then I'll be seeing you in the FEMA camps in just a few short years.

grim

Hi!! grimgraphix:
---
Since you raise the issue of misleading propaganda... You do realize the myth about lemmings was created for a Disney nature "documentary", don't you? They don't really jump off cliffs.
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Well! We are so sorrounded by lies ... ... one should need several lifes to get ride off all them :-|. Really I did not know that about lemmings. What a shame :-|
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As for the other stuff. While I have read the goings on over at Prison Planet dot com along with Alex Jones' and friends other projects for a few years, I do so with a healthy amount of cynicism. My credo when it comes to any group who has all the "real story" (including any government) is to question everything. View it as a counterpoint to "I want to believe", if you will.
---
What an unexpected and pleasant answer.
---
I have had my doubts about the most popular "eco-threats" just as I have had reservations about the idea of "what's good for the free market is good for the individual". History has categorically proved that the free market, does indeed bite the hand that feeds it, if given the chance. As such, the all or nothing argument about global warming presented by both sides of this debate serves to delay dealing with the issue at hand. That there is real pollution that industry can do something about but does not for the sake of their profit margin.
---
So, you deserve to know (in spite of that you not mind; may be it will have some value for other posters) the reason of my original post. I'm posting from Sp. (that's why my poor English Grammar) and sometimes when browsing throughout Spanish language alternative (or even conspiracy) forums I feel quite sorrow due to lamentable ... ... Hummmm! May I say ignorance and/or misperception shown by posters. I'm not a wise at all (as demonstrated a few lines above), though my church and god is not the 'saint media'. But for many, many people, unfortunatetly it seems it is. I'm also discovering in most Sp. forums you have no longer to struggle like nuts trying to discover trolls; web masters and moderators are So, in one of these forums I had already blasted webmaster arguments in order other posters could see all behind global warming was a fake --as a result of human activity-- And here it is another guy who comes to reinforce webmstr suggesting readers to watch this definitive Dr. Bartlett's docu "Arithmetic, Population and Energy"!!! About how catastrophic situation is. Well there's a website in which you can "notice" cia's hand: http://www.vhemt.org/ translated into lots of languages so that everybody can have the oppotunity to suicide in their own way; people must have same oppotunities disregarding language limitations. I just wanted some feedback about this Dr. and his docu, or who's behind him so I could come back to the forum I'm talking about and "paint it" with colour of fake. Now while writing this I wonder whether it worths ...
---
Bottom line, whether you believe global warming is a myth for economic concerns, or worried about the hidden powers manipulating humanity to create a modern serf (serf = slave) population via destruction of the middle class... objections about real pollution issues are being buried by the ridicule. The reality is that the planet will continue to spin if we pollute or not. It will be a nicer place to live though, if we do everything we technologically can to stop polluting our environment.
---
Clean NRG!!! This would be the issue. I have a couple of dossiers about magnetic and alectromagnetic automovils --physically and operative-- developed in the States some time between 1905 and 1920. Some of them were so silent you could hardly hear the engine running while staying near to them. I've also Vols. II and III of Encyclopedia of free energy. More than 1000 pages of patented invents (and forbidden) to generate clean, cheap and abundant energy.

Yuo can download them if you wish:

http://www.mediafire.com/?1rzn1otc2yo (Vol. II)
http://www.mediafire.com/?aythn5jyxdm (Vol. III)


I know also about a FAO report explaining how planet earth could largely feed 12.000,000.000 souls. You need to become cyber-Speleologist to find this report ( I have tried with no success) buried under tons of mass media indifference.
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Of course you may be spot on with your concerns, 13th_level. If so, then I'll be seeing you in the FEMA camps in just a few short years.
---
Hummm! In which part of the barber wire you expect to be????? My, possible, side or "the other side"?

---

grim

talking to yourself?

You must be desperate for attention today.

but since you decided to be an obnoxious jerk, forget it.

Hi! Grim:
There was no need to be ironic and distrustful. I was not talking to myself. I was just sharing some points of wiev in order to "crop" other's points of view. Otherwise, Which would be the purpose for this forum but sharing???
And I was not being ironic when I have asked you in which side of barbed wire you expect o be.

13th_Level

Calling someone an "obnoxious jerk" is not violating the TOS?

Welcome to the forum.

The other exchange really was not directed at you so please, do not be insulted. You have some interesting views and links. Thank you for your input.

grim

is most perplexing -- it looks like the signature of the person to whose post you're replying, according to the software -- please clarify!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET or the other SE Mods.

Hi! Moderator:
It has been my fault. I was trying to answer by paragraphs and at the end I forgot to put my nick :-/
13th_Level

because the belief in mass suicide of lemmings (as well as some other similar critters) goes back at least to the 14th century (do kindly note that old Walt hadn't yet been born).

Although quite true that, just like with the Gnu migrations, MANY in the migrating mass die by drowning or landing at the bottom of long drops because the pressure of others in the group give them no options.

All the Disney documentary did was reinforce an already popular misconception (not really a myth because it is based on observable fact).

"Bottom line" here is actually that "global warming" and "manmade global warming" or "man caused global warming" are NOT synonymous although your response attempts to make it so.

Slightly increased temperatures are a fact.
Temperature fluxuations over recordable and recorded time periods (cycles) are fact.
Temperature fluxuations with relation to solar activity are fact.
That man is the cause of this latest warming trend is NOT fact, it is only conjecture and mostly based upon well refuted junk science (and junk science reviewed by a peer would remain junk science).

Edward, have you ever seen the site that raises the question of the operating conditions of some temperature sensors used to collect temperature data?
Link: http://www.surfacestations.org/odd_sites.htm

Learned something about the lemmings myth that I didn't know.

The Global warming terminology? Its become a hot button topic. I don't like using the term any which way it is used because it disguises real environmental issues. Our planet's weather and climate will continue to change every year, decade, century, millennia, ad infinitum. It's a fact of life.

Scouting, hunting, and later real wilderness back packing, taught me that you try to make no impact on the environment if at all possible. To my way of thinking there is a serious problem when a manufacturer says that it is possible to be less environmentally harmful but it would cost too much. Would it really cost too much or does it just cut into their profit margin more than they would like it to? How do you deal with a kid when they stare you in the eye and say "gee dad, I'd like to clean up my room but it would cut too much into my TV watching time"? Excuses are excuses no matter what issue they deal with.

Does man cause global warming? Why bother asking that question since no one will ever actually agree over the real reasons why they support or object to the very idea. Instead let's ask, "do we pollute more than we have to for economic expediency"?

It's much like smoking cigarettes. When I smoked, I knew it slowed me down in outdoor sports, I got more head colds and sinus infections, I got irritable without a cigarette, and the people around me thought me, my home, and my car smelled. More seriously, I knew it could kill me, Yet I found reasons to continue smoking until I quit making excuses. Pollution is like smoking. We know it's bad but we still find reasons to do it.

Pollution is a choice. We choose between environment or lifestyle... do we want clean air, and water, or maximized profits? The sad thing is that both sides make it out to be an all or nothing argument. When both sides quit lying to themselves about the real reasons they are calling for action or inaction then some real dialogue and compromize may actually occur.

Thats just the way I see it though.

- Isn't rising CO2-percentage a fact?
- Do you propose any other major cause for that than burning fossil fuels and deforestation?
- Don't you think the relation between rising CO2-percentage and rising average global temparature is probable, given the mechanisms proposed? Or do you think that the CO2 content of the atmosphere doesn't have ANY influence or a NEGATIVE influence on the temperature?

Kees

were before industrialized mankind? Were they higher or lower?

I found that somewhat hard to follow. The drift I got was that before 430,000 (650,000 years ago) years ago it was 30 percent less than in the last 4 glacial periods. Then it said that it appears that the sensitivity between deuterium (AKA heavy water) and CO2 remained stable for 6 glacial periods suggesting that the relation between CO2 and Antarctic climate stayed constant.
O.K. the relationship remained constant, but outside of the time period of 650,000 and 430,000 years ago when it was 30 percent less than the last glacial period, what factors were responsible for the change?

have changed over the course of the planet's history. Shocking !!!