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General discussion

The best way to extend wireless signal?

Sep 26, 2006 9:30AM PDT

I moved into a new house and the internet is based on the bottom floor of the house. The signal that the router is sending is not reaching the two rooms on the top floor (it is the router the internet service gave me so it's probably weak and I can't move it from the spot it's at). How can I get the signal to these rooms? Is the best thing to get a new router or a range extender (repeater)? If so which one(s)? I have been checking things out on here but have had no luck finding a router than everyone seems to generally like. Please let me know, thanks!

Discussion is locked

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also..
Sep 26, 2006 9:33AM PDT

I have a mac powerbook g4 by the way, I don't know if there is a certain router that would better comply with this, thanks!

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Unusual
Sep 26, 2006 11:42AM PDT

For a ISP to supply you with a wireless router, but not impossible.
Usually they supply you with a modem, for a single computer connection, and the rest is up to you.

Personally I would look at ways to move any wireless device up a floor or two so that it hits the whole house.

Alternatively, you could try a couple of Airport Express devices to extend the signal up from the basement to the top floor.

What sort of wireless router did your ISP supply?

Most Wireless routers work well with the Mac

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Verizon
Sep 26, 2006 12:21PM PDT

I was surprised also that this ISP, unlike the past ISP that I had, gave me a modem that is also a router. I get a signal if I go closer to it, it just does not extend all the way up to these rooms. They gave me an Actiontec router (I've never heard of it). Unfortunately moving it up a floor isn't an option as it is based on a PC desktop downstairs. I called the ISP and they told me that it was not the best router in the world (and also going through some walls and up a floor definitely made the signal worse) and suggested a Linksys wireless-N router, but I read some reviews and some of the people weren't pleased with it. Any suggestions on what Airport Express devices to use? Or if the Linksys router is a decent one? Let me know, thanks again!

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If it is DSL, do you know
Sep 26, 2006 1:01PM PDT

how to get additional filters and move the router - you don't have to keep the router where the wire enters the house... and I agree that putting it in the middle floor would be easiest...

Another method could be to install a couple of the AC power ethernet adapters tha turns your house AC wiring into ethernet and then add a repeater...

Another method would be to put a wifi bridge on the second floor... and another wireless router on the third floor talking to the bridge.

and another EASY thing to try is a couple of different channels - it *could* be that someone nearby is on the same channel and the wireless routers on the same channel are fighting each other...

Don't waste your money on pre-N standard Lynksys yet. Your wireless computer is 802.1lg - so while it will work, it is not optimal.

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fios
Sep 26, 2006 2:29PM PDT

It's the new fios internet. How would I go about using the AC wiring? Would it work if I just put a repeater on the second floor (where the computers that aren't catching a signal are) and keep the router on the first?

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Now there's your problem, right there
Sep 26, 2006 9:53PM PDT

you said that moving the router was not an option because it was based on the PC desktop downstairs.

Not hardly! That modem is a completely separate device and is NOT dependent on the PC. If the incoming signal, from the ISP, is DSL, just pick up the whole thing and move to a phone line upstairs.

Do you have Cable or DSL as your service?

The PC downstairs has nothing, or should have nothing, to do with the wireless signal nor with any other hard wired connection. The PC should NOT be sharing it's internet connection.

Is it possible to run ethernet cable up a couple of floors?

There is only one Airport Express, no choices, it is what it is, Airport Express. A small wireless router that can be used to extend your wireless coverage.

Let us know

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It isn't a modem
Sep 27, 2006 12:33PM PDT

I have the same Fios set up and don't really seem to be able to figure out how the wireless works. Sometimes the signal is very weak other times it is quite strong.

It doesn't seem to be any better or worse than the Lynksys(sp) router I was previously using either.

Anyway, I also wanted to clear up that it is NOT a modem that Verizon gave you, it is a router. The wall socket connects directly to the Internet.

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Thanks.
Sep 27, 2006 4:29PM PDT

The ISP was trying to tell me that it was a modem/router in one, when I knew that since it came straight from the connection that it was just a router, thanks for clearing it up. I'm going to purchase a new router tomorrow and see if the signal is any better, if not, I will have to just try and get a way to move it up a floor. Thanks again everyone.

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Ahhh, my mistake
Sep 27, 2006 9:56PM PDT

I did a little reading on the FIOS thing, not available in my area, and see that the device they gave you is a Wireless Router.
I do have a question though. What device turns the signal from the Fiber Optic cable, (Light) into Ethernet TCP/IP packets that your computers can understand.

If it is the device they gave you, then changing it out for one from your local store will not work. It does not have the necessary internal hardware to turn an optical signal into something else.

Just a thought.

I still say, Airport Express.

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I could be very wrong but
Sep 28, 2006 6:55AM PDT

When they installed Fios in my home, they took out the old phone box and put in a new one. A coupple actually(one is a battery saftey in case of a black out). I THINK that when the signal comes into my home, it goes through that and the internet gets filtered to the ethernet port and the regular phone goes to the copper lines throughout the house. I am no where near an expert on the subject though.

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Ok, Sounds about right
Sep 28, 2006 10:10AM PDT

So what goes into the Router is ethernet/TCP/IP.
Now it is feasible to either:
1. Replace the wireless router with a better one
2. Extend the ethernet cable up a floor or two and then add the router
3. Leave it all as it is and install Airport Express to extend wireless coverage

Which will it be? We wait with bated breath

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(NT) (NT) awww I always wanted to bait my breath(nt)
Sep 28, 2006 2:50PM PDT
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Sometimes my breath smells like bait, it
Sep 28, 2006 9:48PM PDT

depends on what I have been eating.

Happy

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My guess is that all you need is a repeater.
Sep 29, 2006 2:06AM PDT

That will relay a stronger signal to your upper floors.

It's been kind of amusing to read the advice in this thread. I have this kind of device. It's called a gateway, and mine came from SBC/Yahoo. Mine uses a DSL connection, and I've never been able to find one in a store. I'm not sure why, but I suspect part of the answer is in the DSL modem. Mine includes a firewall which SBC says is very effective. My computers to run Zone Alarm to provide further a barrier to entry.

At any rate, mine is connected to my PC via an ethernet cable. That's important because the PC doesn't need a radio connection to access the device. It can change channels, encryption, etc. without losing its own connection. It can also connect to the net at maximum speed rather than being limited by the radio connection.

I was amused by the comment that the PC should not be sharing this connection. That kind of defeats the purpose of the device. My PC shares printer and a limited number of file directories with other computers on the network. That means my daughter can print homework from the portable she uses while I am doing other things on the main computer. In fact, I have a complete network of multiple computers and a PDA built on wireless connections. That would be severely hampered if the PC was not sharing.

That said, be sure wireless encryption is turned on, and that it is not left at a default value. Also, after all machines have found the wireless connection, turn off the SSID broadcast.

I currently have a computer in the basement that can reach the first floor successfully. I did have to play with the antenna location to get an acceptable signal. If I could not reach the second floor, I would install a repeater, and position it so that it could pick up and pass on the signal.

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Wireless repeaters and misquotes
Sep 29, 2006 11:10AM PDT

This setup apparently does not use a modem, as we would normally know one, but uses a device to decode the Fiber Optical digital light signal into an electrical signal capable of being carried along ethernet cable. From there it passes into a regular wireless router which was supplied by his ISP. No DSL here, this dude has gone high tech while the rest of us are still using copper wire coming into the house!

The statement about sharing a connection actually said '' The PC should not be sharing its internet connection'' which, given that the poster has a router, should unnecessary. With a Wireless router (any router), with four ports, why would you want, or need, one of the computers to share its Internet connection?
Note that the quote is ''sharing its connection'' not sharing a connection. There is a difference.

The poster mentions that ''Unfortunately moving it up a floor isn't an option as it is based on a PC desktop downstairs.'' which would indicate that the PC is doing something that is not necessary, if the Router is actually a Router( or Gateway). Why is this setup reliant on the PC?

Configuring a computer to share its internet connection is not file sharing, as you probably know. It is where the host PC has the incoming TCP/IP signal coming into it from the modem, bridges and shares that internet signal with the other machines connected to it.
My machines also share files and printers but the internet connection is controlled by a router and not by one of the computers and each computer is not reliant on another computer for internet access.

All the computers connected to the router, beit via wireless or hard wired, are connected to the other computers by virtue of the routers switch capability. This is the method that I believe you describe as your home setup. My setup is the same. Modem/Router/Computers & Printers.

Creating the shares and setting the correct permissions allows machines on a network to share files and printers. Note though, that all that would continue to happen even if the internet connection was severed.

I think, perhaps, that you misread the post.

I agree with your suggestion regarding the use of a wireless repeater, I have made it at least three times in this thread.

Oh yes, glad to see you were amused with the thread and the statement that you misquoted, we must be fair. You had the Computer Science faculty in hysterics with your posts on the Mac forum.

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That's why I went out of my way to say that I have a DSL
Sep 29, 2006 4:01PM PDT

connection. You have an unfortunate tendency to make assumptions about what I say. I wanted my perspective to be clear rather than to suggest that I have an identical connection.

I'm glad you clarified your remark about sharing. What you must have meant to say then was that no computer, including a Mac, should share its internet connection with this type of gateway set up. Since you singled out the PC for this statement, it was hard to determine what you were trying to say.

The set up may be reliant on the PC (mine certainly is) because, as I explained, it is the PC that is connected to the gateway via an ethernet cable. This allows the PC to perform maintenance on the gateway that machines using a wireless connection cannot do.

I am happy to have amused the 'Computer Science faculty' wherever and whatever that is although I am at a loss as to the source of their amusement. Perhaps you should enlighten me, and tell what institution this is. Perhaps they aren't aware of the function of DLLs or the concept of modular programming? Something else? I wait to be enlightened.

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Number Game
Sep 29, 2006 10:41PM PDT

Contrary to popular belief, yours and Kevin's, it really does not bother me at all when people start talking about market share. It is what it is.
It probably comes down, in the long run, to cost but it certainly has nothing to do with the quality of Windows.

Quotes are really just a waste of time. You can find quotes to support almost any point of view. They are like Standards, there are so many to choose from. Here are just a couple to illustrate that point:

Apple was awarded the contact to continue supplying laptops to Middle school students and teachers (grades 6-Cool in Henrico County (some 12,675 units), beating Dell and other PC makers. Apple lost the bid to furnish High School laptops to Dell last year, but a little less than a year after that move, Henrico chose Apple instead of Dell to continue in Middle Schools.The Maine Department of Education is making plans to continue the laptop computer program in middle schools beyond the original four-year contract," The Associated Press reports. "Education Commissioner Susan Gendron told the Sun Journal newspaper that it would cost the state about eight million dollars to continue the Apple contract as is. She says it would cost ten million dollars a year to sign a similar agreement for a year but replace all 34-thousand laptops with new machines."?Cobb County [Georgia] wants to spend nearly $70 million for 63,000 students and teachers to get state-of-the-art Apple laptop computers, complete with Microsoft Word and iTunes. After months of negotiations, Superintendent Joseph Redden announced the cost and scope of a deal with Apple Computer. If the school board approves the first phase of the four-year, $69.9 million proposal, the first iBook G4 laptops would be distributed this spring," Kristina Torres reports for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

You will not find me among those claiming that Apple have blanketed education. The lost that market, having held it for quite a while, when they had some very unfortunate choices of CEO. Probably a cost thing then, too.

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Clarification
Sep 29, 2006 10:28PM PDT

No assumption made, just mentioning that the guy used fiber optic to get into the house, unlike us copper age people.
.
I ''singled out the PC'' because the guy specifically said that everything was dependent on the PC. No bias there, it's just what he said.

''The set up may be reliant on the PC (mine certainly is) because, as I explained, it is the PC that is connected to the gateway via an ethernet cable. This allows the PC to perform maintenance on the gateway that machines using a wireless connection cannot do.''

I ask this question without trying to annoy you: In the above setup, if your PC goes down, is the rest of the network without internet access, or is the term reliant used to indicate something else?

I use a router, four ports, to which is connected 3 computers & 1 switch. The switch connects the remainder of the equipment, computers/printers. Maintenance on the router can be done with any of the hardwired machines.
Each machine on the network has an independent connection, via the router, to the internet and intranet. Access to the internet, or other machines, is not reliant on one particular machine being active.

No, I did not mean what you suggested regarding sharing. XP and OS X (probably more) each have a setting where one computer can share its internet connection with another, without the aid of a Router. Signal goes from cable/DSL to modem to Computer1 to Computer2. In the original post, the poster stated that his connection was dependent on the PC in the basement. This, coupled with his statement that he had a wireless router, seemed strange.

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My setup is far simpler. One small box with three lights
Sep 30, 2006 6:43AM PDT

sits next to the main computer. The modem, router, firewall, radio, etc. are all contained in that one box. It's called a gateway. When I wanted to upgrade my wireless from b to g, I went looking for a 'g' gateway. I could find no one who sells these boxes except the ISP. It sounds like the original poster has the same kind of box except he/she has optical rather than DSL. That's one of the reasons I responded in this thread.

The statement on sharing the internet connection seemed to have come out of nowhere:

The PC downstairs has nothing, or should have nothing, to do with the wireless signal nor with any other hard wired connection. The PC should NOT be sharing it's internet connection.

It's a bit mystifying since the network is a wireless one. No other computer can 'share' the PC's connection in the sense that they must go through the PC to connect to the internet. The only interpretation I could see was that you thought the PC should be isolated from the other machines with no communication between it and the other machines on the network.

In my setup, there is no effect on the other machines if the main desktop is turned off. They can still access the internet. What they cannot do, of course, is access the printers and HD files that are attached to the main desktop. However, there is only one hardwired connection to the gateway. That is the ethernet cable that attaches the main desktop to the gateway. It is, therefore, the only machine that can perform maintenance on the gateway. I assumed that the poster has a similar connection, and thus the need to have the gateway located near that machine. Moving the gateway would mean attaching it to another computer located somewhere else in the house to supply the hardwired connection. In addition, it would mean moving or extending the optical cable to another floor, and purchasing a wireless unit for the PC. Most posts in the thread did not seem to recognize this.

A repeater should, of course, provide a far cheaper and simpler soltion.

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OK,
Sep 30, 2006 8:03AM PDT

The gateway system sounds fairly simple and efficient. From the website it appears to be a modem/router all in one. I note that one has four ethernet ports, as is fairly normal in a router.

Only part of the network is, or will be, wireless. He still has the PC hardwired into the gateway.
The poster said that moving the gateway to another floor was not an option because it was based on the PC in the basement.
This made me think that the poster was using the PC to share its connection.
We also seem to have a different idea about what the word reliant means.

You said that your setup was reliant on your PC. This prompted my question about turning it off. Surely your network is not dependent on the PC if the internet/network works when it is off. (bar the file and printer serving) Your gateway is dependent, for maintenance, on a hardwired PC but otherwise it just functions by itself.

The poster has a laptop. Plugging it into the gateway when maintenance was necessary would not be too much of a problem. If moving the gateway were possible, he would only need to extend the ethernet cable that is connected to it on the WAN side. The Optic Fiber device is elsewhere in the building. Of course, he may not be able to run cable without a lot of work and mess.

So, a repeater it is!

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Thanks...
Oct 3, 2006 2:26PM PDT

I think a repeater would do just the job with what I need to do. Now, I like the idea of getting an airport express, but they are quite expensive. I am going to try and find a decent repeater that doesn't cost me $100, hopefully that's possible, haha. Thanks for all the help and I'm going to try and get it figured out.

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Good Luck
Oct 3, 2006 9:46PM PDT

I was reading somewhere yesterday that the AE may not be capable of extending a signal from a third party WAP.

So go for the cheaper one


Let us know how you get on

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