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General discussion

Terror wins: Socialists win Spanish national election

Mar 14, 2004 6:24AM PST
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040314/ap_on_re_eu/spain_elections_3

The ruling Popular Party looked headed for defeat in Sunday's general elections overshadowed by the Madrid terror bombings, with the opposition Socialists poised to score spectacular gains, according to partial results.

Many voters said they were furious with the government for backing the U.S.-led war in Iraq and making Spain a target for al-Qaida, which claimed responsibility for the bombings. Turnout was high at 76 percent.

With 56 percent of the votes counted, the conservative Popular Party ? which had been projected to win comfortably ? fell from 183 seats in the last 350-seat legislature to 146. The Socialists soared from 125 to 163.


In a related item: Madrid bombing, 9/11 suspect linked:

One of the three Moroccans arrested in the Madrid train bombings is linked to a man jailed in Spain for allegedly helping plan the Sept. 11 attack in the United States, according to court documents reviewed by The Associated Press. It was the latest suggestion that Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s al-Qaida terrorist group may have been involved in the bombings.

A Sept. 17, 2003 indictment named Jamal Zougam, 30, as a "follower" of Imad Yarkas, who was jailed for allegedly helping plan the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington. Zougam has been arrested in the Madrid bombings. Yarkas, who has used the alias Abu Dahdah, remains in Spanish custody.


Gee, sounds like the idea of making the fight against terror an "intelligence and law enforcement" affair didn't work too well in Spain...

My guess is that while the terror leaders have to be thrilled to separate Spain from the larger anti-terror effort (prediction: Spain's 1,300 troops to leave Iraq within 60 days and Spain's coordination with the U.S. to dry up sooner), the larger audience this was directed at - the rest of the EU-nuchs - will also listen.

We already know that Spain complained that ETA terrorists were finding sanctuary in the mountains on the French side of the Franco-Spanish border. We also know that Islamists in France have thrown a snit after that nation's decision to ban Islamic head scarves (among other things). The unspoken message here is clear: Stop fighting us or pay the same price as Spain. And at a time where most European leaders have long forgotten the lessons learned between 1939 and 1945 about the cost of appeasement, it seems likely that Islamists will be coddled - until they show their true colors and turn on their appeasers. Then and only then will Europe remember that radical Islam seeks the destruction of all Western civilization - not just that part of it now actively opposed to its goals.

That said, I'll hit my knees and pray that I'm wrong; but I doubt it...

Discussion is locked

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Re: Terror wins: Socialists win Spanish national election
Mar 14, 2004 7:29AM PST

Hi, Paul.

Of course, if we'd really focused on terrorists instead of wasting our forces in settling the Bush family's old score with Iraq, none of this would probably be happening, as we'd have made much more progress against the real terrorist, would have a more robust economy because the deficit would be much lower, and would still have a viable military force as a deterrent. As it is, we'd be VERY hard pressed if forced to deploy even a couple of divisions beyond our current commitments.

BTW, to keep long URLs from bleeding into the margin and making your message hard to read, please use the following template:
{url=site.com}text{/url}, except use square brackets in place of the curly ones. I use the PCMag utility Robotype to spit the template out when I type "hrf"

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Dave, that bleed over happens in all browsers except the newest Opera 7.
Mar 14, 2004 9:30AM PST

.
Pauls posts appears perfect in Opera 7 but the bleed over does appear in Opera 6, Netscape 7, IE 6 and SlimBrowser.

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Correction, no bleed over in IE 6. -NT
Mar 14, 2004 9:40AM PST

.

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Re:Re: Terror wins: Socialists win Spanish national election
Mar 15, 2004 12:44AM PST
Of course, if we'd really focused on terrorists instead of wasting our forces in settling the Bush family's old score with Iraq,....

While I've not been convinced everything has been handled perfectly, your insistance this is all just a personal vendetta and that Bush had no reason to believe Iraq was a threat is becoming a bit tiresome.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had a predisposition to believe evidence against Iraq, but that doesn't mean he discarded all reason and careful thought in making his decision.

Mistakes may or may not have been made, but it's no grand conspiracy.

The WMD evidence was believed by many on both sides of our political spectrum and by others around the world. Now that searches are not finding them, everyone is proclaiming how there never was a reason for the belief.

And one dismissed employee words, twisted by a reporter, aren't proof.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
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Well, maybe this statement is more acceptable ...
Mar 15, 2004 1:02AM PST

.
"Of course, if we'd really focused on terrorists instead of ........."

Fill in the blank.

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Uhmmmmm, we did focus on terrorists.
Mar 15, 2004 1:15AM PST

Perhaps, you didn't notice, but there's been a great deal of focus on terrorism. Dave and the DNC don't want to admit this because they have nothing to counter it with. It makes President Bush look good as a leader.

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"...there's been a great deal of focus on terrorism."
Mar 15, 2004 1:23AM PST

.
They just haven't been able to stop or get any terrorist. Other than the ones that kill themselves.

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I'm wondering
Mar 15, 2004 12:50AM PST

Hi Paul,

I'm wondering if maybe there won't be some terrorist attacks in the US as the election draws near.

They may think it'd cause America to vote Kerry in, who'd probably stop the war, withdraw our troops and apologize to those who'd killed all our citizens!

I'll be on my knees with ya.

Cindi

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Re:I'm wondering
Mar 15, 2004 12:52AM PST

I'm on my knees right now, laughing.

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Why Josh? Do you think the terrorists wouldn't want to influence an election? Or,
Mar 15, 2004 1:18AM PST

maybe you think they would prefer Kerry over Bush? Or, maybe you don't believe in prayer. I'm curious which one is so funny.

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Re:Why Josh? Do you think the terrorists wouldn't want to influence an election? Or,
Mar 15, 2004 1:48AM PST

The notion of Kerry apologizing to bin Laden had me in stitches. Guess it didn't have the same effect on you.

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Re:Re:I'm wondering
Mar 15, 2004 1:44AM PST

Hi Josh,

Why? I don't recall it being funny to you when the planes hit the towers.

Cindi

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(NT) See my reply to KP above
Mar 15, 2004 1:48AM PST

.

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It's too bad that the Spanish people seem willing to let
Mar 15, 2004 1:21AM PST

the terrorists control their country. I hope the Democrats don't bring us to that point, although they are surely intent on undermining and dividing the country.

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Terrorism was a factor, but so was the government's trying to...
Mar 15, 2004 1:39AM PST

use it as a political issue. Many people in Spain believe the government was spinning the issue in it's own political favor. Insisting that it was Basque terrorists and not retaliation for Spain's involvement in Iraq.

Stuff like that cheezes people off.

Dan

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NT - You think Spaniards are more concerned over politicos than perpetrators?
Mar 15, 2004 2:22AM PST

.

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Nope, not at all.
Mar 15, 2004 3:00AM PST

The Spanish people were opposed to the war to the tune of about 90%. Add to that the resentment over the possibility that the government was misleading them regarding the source of the recent attack. Together they add up to a bad political situation for the incumbent government.

Dan