Taking the plunge

and I hit my limit of what I can spend. 1850 v. 2500 (upgrading to the 6T's) is a pretty big difference. (The 5C, the 6B's and the 4B's were all open box)

I am doing 6B's by the way (Not 4B's) for main speakers. I considered the 4T's for mains but I'd really prefer bookshelf models for placement flexibility. I've got a tiny living room (11x14x9 feet with a dining nook.... total = <2000 cubic feet). If the sound is not up to snuff I can always swap out the front channels.

But what about the amp?

ok, cool. You know there is a big benefit of bookshelves vs towers, at least when we're talking affordable, and that is the much reduced cabinet resonances that mask all other audio, no matter the volume it is played back.

Depending on where you sit in that room... you probably don't have to worry about the amp so much. Main things are distance from speaker, volumes desired, and then the speaker characteristics. The 82 db/w is indeed a very low sens, and for instance you would need 400% the power I would to get the same volume, all other things being equal. However, I also probably sit considerably further than you do.

If Aperion thinks the 806 will be totally sufficient, I have no reason to doubt them. You at least have preouts just in case. Just use common sense; if there's any straining, just turn it down. (though imo straining is sometimes hard to distinguish from room issues).

i think you could do better on the sub for the money, but most likely it will be a larger unit I think. also, if you live in an apartment, I guess you might not want a fantastic sub.

4b's are basically of the cube variety imo, and so I would personally prefer larger even just as surrounds. having used three different models as surrounds in the last two years, it's immediately noticable with the varying extension, even when they're all xover'd at the same point. however, id put the sub as the first priority, if you don't live in an apartment.

but, i'm speaking from somewhat of an ideal pov. depending on with what speakers you're coming from, you might just love it to death. congrats anyways, and sorry about that again.

Luckily I am only sitting about 9 feet from my 46" LCD flat panel TV which sits on a 6-foot long console table. I have sufficient space on either side to put the 6B's. But if I need more separation I'd have to get stands. Any recommendations for simple, solid 24" stands that don;t cost a fortune? If I have to spend $200 for the Aperion stands I might consider returning the 6B's for a set of 5T's (which just showed up under open box specials) as the increase in price would only be about 30 dollars.

I own my own place and its a single family and detached so I can crank the volume up if I desire. The floors are wood and tend to couple with any sub so I'll have to play around with placement to avoid boominess. I went ahead and ordered the Onkyo as I found a good deal on Amazon and it seems that Onkyo, while kind of dull on the styling side, seems to be very solid and reliable. I'll be putting the system together this weekend and I'm pretty excited!

the ideal LP being as low as 33% of length can happen due to the inclusion of NON-axial modes. The axial modes by themselves gives the number of 38%. Sorry*.

Its such a shallow room (about 11 feet) with windows on three walls that the TV has to go on one side and the sofa has to go on the other putting my head about a foot away from the rear wall. But I have some options for the placement of the sub so I'll do a little trial and error and keep my eyes open for any good deals on bigger bookshelves or slightly smaller towers. I am hoping that even this system will blow my socks off compared with what I'm coming from (mid 90's Cambridge Soundworks sats with 3.5 inch drivers, 3/4" tweeters and dual 8" subs... not powered)

Even though I listen to equal amounts of movies and music the only time I'm actually sitting in front of the speakers is during a movie. So in a way that is the more critical listening situation for this system. Music is something I like to have going while I'm in the kitchen or doing other things around the house. And while I love a full, balanced sound I'm not really ever just sitting and listening. Its such a small house and such an open plan that two zones can fill it with music (going to use my old amp and speakers for a second zone).

Thanks for the links for speaker stands.

min.

to fit in my cabinet. Its got a big inflexible power cable that juts out at 90 degrees for another 2.5 inches or so.

Which means the sliding doors can;t close and the other side of my nice walnut cabinet can't be accessed. The competition from Denon is no better as it too is a ridiculously deep hoss. I guess I will have to consider an Onkyo 706 which is 2 inches shallower. Is it basically the same as the 806 with just a little less power?

Yeah, the quality receivers these days are pretty hefty in size. Even if you could manage to get the 806 to fit, I wouldn't recommend closing the front glass doors when you are using it because the 806 tends to run hot. Perhaps you can buy a small component shelf for the 806 to sit on? The 706 will probably be good for your setup, but the 806 is the better receiver.

holes in the rear of the cabinet. Not being able to close the doors though is a real dealbreaker though. Luckily Amazon agreed to refund my money on the 806 and pay for shipping and I've already ordered the 706 as a replacement (thank goodness for Amazon Prime).

Its amazing that this doesn't come up more often. The industry standard depth I see on most modern entertainment consoles I find at furniture stores are 18"-19" deep (not including door hardware or rear panel depth). Add in wiring needs and a 15" deep component is already a tight fit. You'd think receiver manufacturers would design for this and just go taller rather than deeper.

Oh well, I know to be really careful from now on.

both having and eating cake. Such as more power, spend less, please don't run too hot.

Onkyo recently has provided the most amp for the buck in recent years. However, like other popular mftr's, they are starting to skimp on amps here and there. I wonder how much of this comes from complaints of heat, as opposed to reducing costs.

Yamaha has been maybe the biggest skimper this year. Some lines are progressively downhill. For instance, the 661 is more powerful than the 663, which itself is more powerful than the 665!

Pioneer has been going lightweight as well in the entry lines.


My main point is that your placement is just very unideal. Either you are giving up power (which seems to be the case), or you could instead spend more for something that delivers similar power, but runs cooler (but that means more money).... or figure out a different placement.

Ok, I'm still concerned about the 706 in there. Can you take the entire back of the stand? Even if you could, I'm still not sure if that's adequate for Onkyo. Not only will your unit run hotter in there, the overall temp in the cabinet is going to affect your other components too. More drastic measures can be made with intake and outake fans, however, I believe it should be a sealed system, so that you know it's working properly.

front open when in use. The ventilation issue is solvable, but the nonstandard dimensions are not.

I'm not about to mutilate a 1500 dollar piece of furniture because of an amp that is too deep. That's like suggesting someone tear up their kitchen because Whirlpool decided to make a dishwasher that was too big to fit in a standard slot.

The guys at Aperion felt the 706 would be fine given the small size of my room so I'm giving it a try.

I believe with your setup you will be fine with the 706, and it generates less heat than the 806. The only real things you give up between the 706 and 806 are some power and and # of inputs. I think you will be happy with it, without tearing up your cabinet.

I didn't need 5 hdmi inputs anyway. (3 will do plus one in case I ever decide to get cable tv again). The power issue is a bummer but there are always compromises.

I think with your speakers the 100 watt/channel will be fine. I have a Onkyo 803 that runs at 105 watts/channel and I never feel that I am missing out on power to my speakers.

And since your receiver has pre-outs, down the road if you want more power you can buy a separate amp but still use your 706 as the processor. I have my eye on the Emotiva XPA-5 amp once I have some more money to blow on man-toys.

and you can rely on this fact when you purchase one.

Given that every other piece of audio gear I have ever owned in my life seemed to be 17x15 inches I guess I just assumed that 15 inches (maximum depth) was some sort of standard. I found out the hard way that it is not but that still doesn't change the fact that consumers are stuck in the world of standard cabinet depths and audio manufacturers would be wise to acknowledge this. Go take a look at most of the media cabinets listed on common furniture makers site (Crate and Barrel, Pottery Barn, even Target and Wal Mart). Most of them are about 18 inches deep.

but... I'll just say with the advent of lossless, extremely dynamic systems that consumers are now putting in their homes, bigger amps are inexorably becoming more and more needed.

By far, the greatest portion (maybe even all) of the HT soundtracks on your discs are using the exact same mix designed for the movie theater!!

Anyhoo, I have two units that have mch amp sections. They are both 18" in depth, let alone 17". One weighs 52 lbs, and the other weighs 68 lbs. They are both class AB.

I do have a two-channel integrated at only 15" depth. But, when you're talking about SEVEN beefy amp sections, with the necessary power supply and heat sinking, it's hard to make em small, at least at an affordable price. We will see how long it takes for good class D implementation in receivers to come along, and for something that is remotely considered "affordable".

Is there a viable market for that, people willing to spend on better amps, yet NEED to have it in an older/smaller cabinet? I don't know.

I recently posted a couple of VERY specific complaints/issues I have with Onkyo receiver implementation, and I thought you might want to read them. If I didn't share with you, I'm not sure when, or if ever, you would discover these things, so here ya go!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16917071&postcount=5

the thread's title is about 606, 805, 806, but i'd bet money that that the issues I've shared will apply to yours as well.

and issue without about every audiophile out there and given that audio gear takes a bit of money my guess is that the majority of audiophiles are not young and single. My significant other is laid back but I am a architect so I'm pretty picky about how my space looks.

I really think there is a market for well made, elegantly designed audio consoles that are beautiful and functional. It would be great if there were ones that had movable doors on both sides to make wiring easier and which had better options for cable management and ventilation. What I see out there now is either beautiful and not very functional or functional and kind of homely.

studio tech makes some modular stuff, but they definitely look more functional than stylish.

if you talk with pro av installers, and I've talked to a bunch, they'll often recommend you to hide the electronics elsewhere. closet.

also, since you are an architect, you must know people who could build custom furniture.

having the electronics up front is an outdated concept. before it was a NECESSITY with older technology, but no longer.

URC RF remote system is $85 shipped. A 35 ft mono HDMI cable about $50.

glad it sounds good. cya.

but Salamander is right up your alley. i often forget them, because i don't want to spend that much. i like nice furniture, and cherry pick stuff from consignment. I was a friend of an ebenist, and visited a couple of workshops where he was across europe. ive also stayed for a week with an architect and his family, who had designed the chinese museum of art in paris. i've visted many luthiers. i like craftsmanship of wood in general, so i understand your pov. normal/typical.

http://www.salamanderdesigns.com/

without spending much more, w/o throwing away the 1.5k stand, you can still have electronics elsewhere, like this guy did for instance.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50367

but I am almost afraid to ask how much it costs :-P I can just tell by the construction and the inner steel cages that this is not unlike the contract grade furniture we spec on interiors projects, where 8-10K is average for a couch.

Beautiful stuff though.

Perhaps not as perfect as a more expensive system but the jump in quality from what I had before is pretty dramatic.

The only drawback is now I am finding myself wanting to actually sit and listen to music... something I haven't actually done in about 9 or so years. Streaming 256kbps VBR mp3's around the house is great for background music while cooking etc, but not so good for attentive listening. I may just have to pull out my boxes of CDs and rediscover a lot of my music all over again.