subwoofer for onkyo805 with ascend speakers

wow, that first picture looks great!
so did they build an end table to fit over the sub?
or did they build the sub up from scratch?

john

You buy a driver. You buy an amp, whether a pro amp, or a plate amp, etc.

When you buy a driver, you need to find out its thiel/small parameters. This will tell you what volume of cabinet you need.

So, if you are looking for a volume, I would choose the driver accordingly. Generally speaking, ported subs need more volume than sealed subs. Ported gets you more output, sealed gets you a more gradual roll-off (ported rolls-off very fast below the port tuning).

Now, by having it as an end table, you really aren't going to be experimenting with the best placement of sub. As I've already outlined to you before, this is one of main ingredients to a good HT. Oh well. There are also in-wall solutions. Not ideal, and some are mega expensive.

Examples, these two range from $4,500 to $7,500 but are super-thin, if tall. Pretty amazing engineering if you ask me.
http://home.jlaudio.com/jlaudio_pages.php?page_id=42

You can consider hiring someone to do a custom job for you. If you pick the right person, they can veneer it in your finish of choice, and basically can make it look like nearly anything. If this was something I myself would be interested in, I'd start at the AVS DIY forum, and go from there. Here's one gallery
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=646455

from this sub-forum area
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=155

john;

i think the diy route is a little beyond me at this point.

just got my ascends today! big gash in one of the boxes scared me,
but it was the stands box, and nothing was hurt. interesting that they say that speaker placement near flat panel tv doesn't present any
magnetic damage issues. i put a nice streak on one of my crt tv's a long time ago by placing speakers too close.

still waiting on receiver, wire, surge protector. i need to formalize my plan for placing surrounds on walls. we also need to pick out some crown molding.

still researching subs. maybe the ascend sub will be available (with specs) about the time i've finalized a decision. probably won't get much out of the system without one.

also ordered some sacd's to play once i get everything hooked up!

john

May I ask what TV you have, and what universal player you have?

Yeah, your plans on the surrounds has to be very, very, very, very well thought out. Actually that's misleading. Your seating position must be very, very, very, very well thought out. Then the surround placements are easy to choose. Use the viewing distance calculator to help you find proper video immersion. If audio first, 38% of room length for where your ears are.

You will have a fine HT even w/o the sub for now. Yeah, you're right, its not complete yet, that's for sure, but watching should still be very enjoyable.

Normally, you can tell the receiver that sub is not connected. The LFE becomes routed to your mains, but with a very, very attenuated signal. This is done in order to protect your speakers. But, since you use all bookshelves, I don't think Id risk it.

Just an FYI, all speaker channels are actually full-range on the disc, whether Dolby DTS etc. We x-over because of speaker and room constraints.

actual acoustic treatment in ones' own house is ordinarily intimidating.

john;

sorry, didn't see your post before posting my latest.

i have a panasonic th50pz800u 50" plasma.
cnet reported weakness w/ film-based 1080i de-interlacing.

i have a new version playstation3, which will play sacd, and i *think*
will also feed bits directly (instead of decoded pcm).

i should set up a picture viewing site w/ pix of our room.
13'x31' w/ tv/fronts on one 13' end.
couch is about 16' from tv wall.
surrounds either side of couch, about 5' above ears, pointing down(?).
rear surrounds on back wall.

john

john;

here's a snapfish album of 4 shots of "the media room".
this should make my situation a little clearer -- i probably haven't
described it well.

john

http://www1.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=242282624/a=7839328_7839328/t_=7839328

watch for xtra characters in wrapped text

and answers too. before I forget, don't worry about down firing. Sure, some isolation may help a bit . . . or not, but the placement and calibration will be much more essential than downfiring, etc. In fact many people say it does not matter one iota.

Nice TV. I can't see the previous in replying to this one, but de-interlacing 1080i . . . I mean better VP there for HDTV might help, but in all honesty, most TV programs look like crap, at least compared to a decent BD. And BDs are almost all progressive. Out of my rapidly growing collection, I think I have just one as 1080i, that I just got, unseen, and its "Ganges".

Pic is worth a 1000 words. Cool. If you can, some more Qs. Im out of time, cuz I have guests gettin here in less than an hour, and Ive got to cook some dishes pronto, prep, pork chops, soup, side dishes. .. but in the meanwhile:

Where exactly do you want to place each surround and rear? using the pics for reference.

And the sub? on the left of couch? in the corner, prolly left/front?

Can you tell me what as accurately as you can, the distance b/w display and you?

Can you tell me, once more, the room length?

Thanks.

I love the room. Looks elegant yet very comfy. I like the floors, the granite countertops, and Ive been playing with the idea of getting a rack like that or whatever you call it for the pots/pans. Dont really need it, but it'd be convenient. My only complaint is I need a much bigger dining table... I even like the art, drapes, etc.

I guess you can put that planter on top of a sub. On one hand, I'd rather the audio come from the front, even with a sub. It depends on how loud it ever gets. The louder it gets, I think it will be more localizable. Thats what I dont like about left of couch. but a LOT OF PEOPLE do that, and are happy.

The corner ... ugh... for me... usually there are too many modes excited from being right next to three boundaries.

I honestly think you should try BOTH. Really. Im thinking, max, two hours, and you will really know which sounds better. However, make sure to play it not just moderate, but LOUD just to know.

Ok, I'll either get back much later tonight. Or tomorrow. Thanks for the pics!

j

thanks john.

the room is 13'x31'.
the couch is 16' from the tv.
side surrounds on wall either side of couch (pix show each of the
two side walls). i'm going to have to put them up higher than i would
otherwise, since people are going to be walking by the kitchen side of the couch, and i don't want them bumping it. the rears are going to
be on either side of the back wall. it's a good distance from the couch, but that's one of the limitations of the room.

assembled stands, and one of the threads in the stand that receives the spiked feet is faulty -- i'll talk to ascend tomorrow. receiver is supposed to show up tomorrow too. i'm taking friday off so i can get the studs located and eye-ball where i'm going to put the wall speakers. and we have to shop for crown molding.

hope your dinner/movie/music went well.

john

Yeah, I understand the layout much better now with the pics. Your wife is either very understanding or loves surround sound as much as you do. Many people in this situation would have gone for 5.1, the rears being in-ceiling, or in-wall.

I really wonder about the need for the rears. Will they add a bit to the effect? Yes, but its pretty minor, especially with this setup in mind. I just don't want you to ugly up your living space more than is necessary. IOW, I think I would forgo the rears in this situation. Its far away enough, and its right where you eat and cook, etc. I'd think about returning them, or using the extra pair for the office, etc.

As is, they are 15 ft away, and if you follow up on the advice Im about to give, they will be even further. I say forget the rears in this room. Up to you. If you do forget the rears, you'd want the surround not at 90 deg, but a bit further behind you to straddle the side + rear areas. Perhaps 110 degrees as is recommeded by either Dolby, or DTS, or was it both.

I'd personally move your couch up further. Sure, anyone likes to use the space available to them. But, I would bet you have significant leeway in pushing up the couch. Damn, I took another look at the photos... that means you have to lose the chair next to couch, since there's a fireplace, and then you can't have matching orange chairs, because the white one matches.... argh.

Oh well. Nevermind. I was going to suggest roughly 11 ft +/- 0.5 ft from front wall. 11.78 ft is 38%. Say we subtract 1 ft distance to tv... say... 10.5 ft to display, then you have 19.6 degree viewing angle which is helluva lot better than 12.4 degree viewing angle if you were 16' to TV. Put it this way, I sit closer than you do at 15 ft, and I think I've found perfection with 159" display. 42 degree viewing angle.

Anyways, in a nutshell:

1) I'd think about losing the rears.

2) I think its not going to work out for you, but Id do my best to get closer to display. Audio will benefit very possibly, but dont make it only 0.5 ft closer, for then you will be at 50% room length which is the least desired possible.

Where, again, were you planning on for the sub?

ps thanks for the well wishing. dinner was a success. I was in a full sweat by the end of it, hehe...

thanks john.

i'm sure the wife would like to lose the rears.
i'll think about my options for returning them or using them
somewhere else.

not sure we can move up the couch -- but the plan now is to move the
white chair up a little to perhaps make room for sub. i won't be placing the l/r fronts until i get the issue w/ one of the stands resolved.

john

just consulted w/ wife:
she agrees w/ you about rears, and is *much* more in favor of
putting the surrounds on stands vs. wall. we might be able to put
the side surrounds on stands as well.

john

where exactly will you be putting the stands??

your "right surround" on a stand will be in the pathway. At least if you are thinking of better placement.

Also, if doing stands, get very tall ones. High enough to fire over the couch back and/or viewers head. Well, thats my opinion.

Eyeballing it, without true real-life perspective, I think your left surround would be ideal at around the light switch, or a tiny tad closer. Then the right surround having the bottom roughly flush with granite countertop mounted on the wall.

But without better perspective, I feel like the right surrounds is a less obtuse angle than the placement I recommend for left surround. you want them to be even, in distance, angle, height, etc. Within reason.

just some thoughts for now.

good observations, john.

we looked at the ascend stands for the htm200 speakers (30"),
and found that the speaker on stand would just fit under the first
part of the countertop. this would put it slightly behind listener,
and at roughly ear-height. we think the speaker here would be out of the way of foot traffic. our other option would be to put the speaker in the same place, but wall-mount it. they recommend that the mount be screwed into a stud, which may not be exactly where we want it, though.

we are considering returning the rear speakers -- i definitely don't want to uglify the room. wife is less concerned about stands. with stands, we'd need enough slack in wire to be able to move them for cleaning, etc.

on a different note, i notice that monoprice has open and closed style banana clips. do you have an opinion?

john

wondering if you are one to rave about Ascends as does jostenmeat. Until he brought them up,I had not heard of them before. Of course jostenmeat has been very energetic pursuing these interests. He didn't stop when getting his initial sound setup for which he was willing to go more expensive than most folks, but then again Martin Logan electrostat speakers are dreamy, but don't come cheap.

Then he had a space to do a large screen front projector theater with hard to fathom high quality as he uses it exclusively for Blu Ray disk, not TV.

no problem.

short answer: i haven't hooked them up yet. still need to decide on speaker placement, and get banana plugs for wire (and solder them).

after john mentioned ascend, i looked around for other reviews, and they all seemed to be very positive, especially for the 340s. i am buying blind here, but they seem to have a good reputation.

i can report back my findings, but i'm replacing a 20 year old hk3500 receiver & ariston q speakers. the new stuff should be a great improvement.

john

john;

yes, i think we should return the rears, but i get an additional $100 off the order by buying them (package price). guess it would save some more if i consider not having to buy stands.

their advice for l/r surrounds is 2-3 feet above ears on either side, facing each other. yep, we'd have to wall-mount to get that. funny, the stands they sell are only 30", which would not accomplish this optimal setting if used.

i used bare wire for my previous system, and it seemed to work well.
if i'm not plugging & unplugging often, then i think i'll take your advice and just use plain wire. i'll make sure there's enough extra space to cover trimming over the years.

i noticed dedicated sub-woofer cables. is my standard monoprice 14-gauge wire okay for this, or is something different required (when i get a sub)?

john

john;

i'll look into my options relative to side surround placement.
i can look into what i paid for the rears, minus a percentage of
group disocunt, plus shipping. i'll need a little more time to
discuss whether we're going to return them w/ wife. i live in
washington state.

guess i'll worry about sub wire after i get a sub!

thanks again, john

john;

still debating speaker situation w/ wife. if we sell the rears, i'll work up a decent price for you.

as it stands now:
- receiver hooked up w/ three front speakers, ps3 and cable box.
works great so far. getting u-remote up to speed.
- discussing w/ wife on surround speakers. general consensus is that
having them on stands would look better than mounting to wall.
we might get htm200se stands to check this out.
- if we terminate wire w/ banana plugs for rears, we could move them
out of the way easily if need be.
- i'm inquiring about price of unfinished surrounds vs. black.
painting them might be a pain, but might reduce uglification.
- looking into firmware upgrades for 805. i've got 1.08 main fw.
understanding is that latest firmware addresses an issue w/
switching between inputs, and a loud noise with a certain type
of sound track.

i'll post results of surround placement tests (subjective), and let
you know what conclusions we draw.

john

Ah, somehow I missed this post. I dont really know how. Musta glossed over too quickly. I think the way the text/paragraph was formatted or something.

What kind of u-remote?

bananas would be convenient for sure in this case.

FW... who knows man. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Mine is definitely older, Im guessing 1.06, and I never got the DTS MA bomb, which I figure is what you might be talking about. Or, I don't know what you are talking about. What are you talking about?

If MA, I don't get it, and I bitstream everything. Your PS3 can only send as m-ch pcm for hi def HT tracks, so I don't even think you could get the bomb even if you wanted to.

How's it all sound? hope its fun.

you told your receiver that both surrounds and rears are not connected, right?

that way they will get downmixed to the front 3. you can tell your receiver that sub is off as well, running as full range, but just be careful about cranking it. use common sense, if you hear distortion, chuffing, compression, etc, turn it down, or change settings...

thanks john;

- talked to wife, and we're going to try 4 stands for surrounds.
we'll return wall mounts, add some $ and see how it works.
- i'm having fun with the different listening modes. thought it was a
toy going into it, but it really makes a difference. even with
stereo pushed to all speakers (i've got side surrounds hooked up).
- i got the newest ps3 (80G), and it allows me to set audio to
bitstream. i did that, and things sound great.
- the 805 doesn't get as hot as some have reported -- maybe they
fixed this in the later models.
- checked firmware for dsp's -- it's up to date with latest. i'm
going to leave things as they are unless a problem crops up.

question for you: is the center channel only really useful if your
front speaker spread is pretty wide? with all three packed fairly close, i'm not seeing the need for a center channel. for surround sound movies, do they dedicate center for dialogue, and front sides
for music?

john

john;

i'll review how i have speakers configured logically within the receiver. i did the audessy thing, but i really haven't dug into it enough yet to tell the difference.

my center right now is not optimally set up. it's slightly lower than
l/r on the shelf of the media center. i may try tipping it up slightly. once the tv is on the wall, i'd like to put center on top of stand -- wife doesn't like that idea. more talking to do.

hopefully i'll have more time to position speakers this weekend.
right now i just wanted to shake down the system & make sure it all works. speaker wires and receiver all over floor.

john