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General discussion

Straight vs Gay

Nov 30, 2003 8:27AM PST

Roy Disney Exits Board, Asks Eisner to Go

Sunday November 30, 6:29 PM EST

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Walt Disney Co. Vice Chairman Roy Disney has left the company's board and is calling for Chairman and Chief Executive Michael Eisner to resign his posts, according to a report in the online edition of The Wall Street Journal.

In a three-page letter to Eisner, Roy Disney said, "It is my sincere belief that it is you who should be leaving and not me," the newspaper reported.

Disney cited a litany of complaints about Eisner's leadership, including the performance of ABC television and radio networks and Disney theme parks.

http://finance.myway.com/ht/nw/bus/20031130/hlm_bus-n30164763.html

Discussion is locked

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Re:(part 2) Double damm this software limited response lenght
Dec 1, 2003 2:35PM PST

Roger,

"Tim, while recognizing your passion in what you believe, I'm can't help but fear you as much as I fear others of the extreme opposite opinion. Extremism is probably the USA greatest enemy. Even as much and probably more than extreme Islam fanatics are our own fanatics (unwilling to talk, reason, and think) citizens and politicians."

You have no reason to fear me. I'm sorry you felt that you had to say such an absurd thing. I'm a peaceable man. But I'm finding the more time goes by, the more polarized my Country has become.

It is getting downright NASTY out there.

You make it sound like I'm not willing to conduct a dialog. What do you call this if not discussing the issues we face now and into the future?

I'm sorry you are all but closing the door to open communications.

Darn shame.

Tim

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Not refusing to discuss, just seems less and less a point to it
Dec 2, 2003 4:49AM PST

Fearing you is an absurb thing to say? I'm not afraid you're going to look me up and physically attack me, so you being a peaceable man isn't the point. I'm saying to me you seem as inflexible and as far from the center as the many on the opposite view from you. And such inflexibility and extremes is what I fear will be the USA downfall. The divide continues to widen, and both sides are willing to let those in the middle just fall out of sight in the crack.


You're finding the country is more polarized? We can certainly agree on that much. Unfortunately, right or wrong, my impression is that you're rather strongly on one side and want nothing to do with anything on the other.

Nasty out there? just about the same in here.

Hmmm, as far as you conducting a dialog, you're willing to express your side certainly, and not always offensive to the other. But most on both sides are not only not willing to consider changing their mind, they're the only right view and damn every other opinion.

My problem was and is that your post about me attempting to call you hand felt like ridicule. And using my question about your post to launch a diatribe against something not mentioned in the first post felt like I was being used as a pasty in a con job.

Shrug, guess we just disagree too much in general.

roger

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Re:Not refusing to discuss, just seems less and less a point to it
Dec 2, 2003 5:47AM PST

Roger,

I could c/p and answer point by point, but I don't know what the use would be in that since you seem to have me pigeon-holed to the proverbial T that you decry, it would seem to me that it is you who is close-minded, not I.

I'm not as rigid as you may think, Roger.

I have a HUGE problem with both extremes. I also don't give a diddly about "fence-sitters". My take is either **** or leave the pot for those who KNOW what the hell is going on and WILL do something about it if push comes to shove.

Times are changing much faster than I would like them to. That said, I believe that the era of "I don't know and I don't care and if you don't like it that I have a right to sit on the fence, to hell with you" is fast coming to and end.

Tim

BTW, Roger, I APPRECIATE the fact that you have engaged me thus far and have avoided the seeming need of some here to attack me personally. For that, I give you huge kudos. Happy

Also, as to the point(s) you made about how you thought I abused you and/or set you up, I'm sorry as I did not mean to attack you personally, rather, a mind-set that may be represented by some who irk me to no end.

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Re:Sigh, I had hope in view of some of your posts
Dec 1, 2003 2:26PM PST

Roger,

"Spare you the 9-11 bit?

IT WAS AN ATTACK ON THE USA. NO IF'S, BUT'S, AND'S, OR'S."

How much conspiracy theory are we allowed to go into here?

Some believe that not all that is foisted off on us is ACTUALLY the real story.

If you listened to right wing radio talking heads like Roger Fredinburg and Michael Savage, you might know more of what I speak about the REAL divisions in our Country.

Tim

BTW, I get a lot of GOOD INFO too from "Coast to Coast AM" with George Noory (mostly from his guests). His show is HARDLY only about space creatures etc.

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(NT)So the Twin Towers destruction wasn't an attack on America? just a conspiracy?
Dec 2, 2003 4:35AM PST

puzzling

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NT Of COURSE it was an attack. Just WHO was REALLY responsible is what is STILL in question.
Dec 2, 2003 5:50AM PST
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I feel like I'm setting myself up for target practice, but ok I'll ask........
Dec 2, 2003 10:52AM PST

Say what?

"Just WHO was REALLY responsible is what is STILL in question."

Really, now that is surprising to me. While the connection to Iraq etc is certainly debateable, I didn't think there was any that disputed that al-Qaida was responsible?

Or is this another lauch platform for how the American attitude toward the rest of the world bought this on ourselves? sorry, I can't accept that one. It was an hateful attack against the USA by an extremeist, fanatical sect.

Or are we back to such nonsense as the claim Israel stage it to reduce support in the US for the Palestines and all other Arabs?

It could be loosely compared to name calling and slugging someone in the face. No matter what I call you, a court would not recognize any justification for you to punch me in the nose for example.

Or are we off to discussing how the radical right is ruining America and causing all the problems in the world while trying to collect all the wealth in their pockets?

The people REALLY RESPONSIBLE are the men who hijacked the planes. The next line is those that encouraged them and supported them. That includes fanatical religious leaders that preach that America is the enemy of Islam.

I'd be willing to accept someone seeing attacks in Iraq were "freedom fighters" etc, even though I disagree.

Calling terroists that sneaked into our country to kill thousands of civilians is deceitful and insulting to the dead and their families.

And I'll state up front, call me closed minded if you will, I strongly dislike people that want to in one way or another say we deserved it for the "ungy American" syndrome.

roger

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Re:I feel like I'm setting myself up for target practice, but ok I'll ask........
Dec 2, 2003 2:36PM PST

Roger,

"Calling terroists that sneaked into our country to kill thousands of civilians is deceitful and insulting to the dead and their families."

Forgive me, but I don't make sense out of this.

If you don't believe that there is a secret "government" above our "elected" government, then we truly don't have anything more to discuss at this time.

Tim

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Correction to statment
Dec 3, 2003 4:29AM PST

Calling terroists that sneaked into our country to kill thousands of civilians is deceitful and insulting to the dead and their families.

Should be

Calling terrorists that sneaked into our country to kill thousands of civilians anything but terrorists and murderers is deceitful and insulting to the dead and their families.


And while correcting mistakes

And I'll state up front, call me closed minded if you will, I strongly dislike people that want to in one way or another say we deserved it for the "ungy American" syndrome.


And I'll state up front, call me closed minded if you will, I strongly dislike people that want to in one way or another say we deserved it for the "ugly American" syndrome.


roger

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Re:Correction to statment
Dec 3, 2003 8:21AM PST

Roger,

"Calling terrorists that sneaked into our country to kill thousands of civilians anything but terrorists and murderers is deceitful and insulting to the dead and their families."

I'm NOT one of those people, nor have I implied as much to my knowledge.

Tim

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OK
Dec 3, 2003 8:43AM PST

That statement about the terrorist being call anything else was just part of the rambling regarding the idea that who was responsible for 9-11 is still in question.

There have been various rumors, assehole claims, statements, that we bought it on ourself, that we deserved it, etc ad nausem. Some of the tales seem to forgive the active participants to blame some unknown shadow figures, mostly blaming the USA for the act, instead of the terrorists, no matter who physically committed it.

That specific statement was in general response to the ideas that we were responsible for being attacked ourselves, not a claim you said they weren't terrorists.

Sort of like the poor 'victims of society's wrongs' who rob, assult, rape, murder productive, responsible citizens. It's not their fault, its society's for the way they grew up, etc. There may be rare instances where individuals can be regarded as twisted beyond responsibility by severely tramatic episodes growing up. But the vast majority of criminals, just like terrorists, choose knowingly to hurt others.

You do seem to have doubts about the fanatics being responsible for attacking us though. But believing different views is your right.

As it is mine to believe differently.

roger

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Re:OK
Dec 3, 2003 9:42AM PST

Roger,

"You do seem to have doubts about the fanatics being responsible for attacking us though. But believing different views is your right."

I thought we have already tilled this soil and you reject my belief about power ABOVE our ELECTED government.

Think of it this way. The mafia head did not pull the trigger, but he sure is responsible for the murders carried out by his henchmen. IF it can be so proven. Trouble is, your great great GREAT grandchildren MAY finally get the REAL truth as to who was ULTIMATELY responsible for 911, and I don't mean the "trigger men".

So, since you have said you don't buy into this theory, we probably should close this chapter. No?

Tim

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AH HA, now we're getting to the conspiracy, the secret government
Dec 3, 2003 4:36AM PST

Of course there are power brokers and influence peddlers and even people generally not named in the media with huge behind the scenes political power.

But your use of a secret "government" above our "elected" government invokes the star chamber image. A group of 4 or 5 men, sitting with their faces in shadow, discussing who they'll pick as the next president, senator, congressman, mayor, etc to be their puppet.

While the practical effect of the most rich and powerful may be distressingly similar to that theoritical B grade thriller plot, most of us recognize it, and hope that our county's citizens and elected government can at least mitigate what the few want to do.

Sorry Tim, secret conspiracies don't thrill me. When they do exist and are uncovered, I'm not surprised. But I don't get off imaging who could belong to the star chamber panel.

roger

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Re:AH HA, now we're getting to the conspiracy, the secret government
Dec 3, 2003 8:28AM PST

Roger,

Well, we had a pretty good discussion going till it all fell apart with what could very well be the most intriguing and most-likely (think the devil for starters and go on down) scenarios which would explain a lot of things that are NOT being answered like just why this administration is stone-walling the 911 investigation.

Tim

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Well Noory and Bell ...
Dec 2, 2003 4:45AM PST

... do explain a lot. Even they "come to you from parts unknown" LOL

Perhaps you can clue us into a little of what is said on talk radio to which you refer. I think I may have heard a segment or two regarding Gay Day at Disney world. Hardly some obsession by right wing talk radio. If this is going to be the Dems big issue, they might want to inform their fearless leader in the Senate -- Daschle -- cuz I could swear that just the other day I heard him come out definitively for marriage being reserved for between a man and a woman.

Seems to me that the Dems biggest issue these days, aside from Bush hating, is free and unfettered rights for women to kill their unborn children. What an upbeat and inspiring platform!

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Re:Well Noory and Bell ...
Dec 2, 2003 6:11AM PST

Evie,

The fact that you actually are still responding to me is heartening indeed. You may think I jest, but, believe it or not, I can agree with at least some of what you post (not particularly in this post, but elsewhere). Does not mean I fully agree with your over-all philosophy, but I do believe in honest dialog, as evidenced by my discussion with Roger in this thread.

Make fun all you want of "Coast to Coast AM", but I honestly believe that some of the guests have valuable information much of the world would do well to have.

Bash "Dems" all you wish. I've NEVER been registered as a Democratic supporter. And I'll be six feet under before I EVER come within a baZILLION miles of supporting any so-called Republicrat.

Tim

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Re:Straight vs Gay
Nov 30, 2003 9:14AM PST

Which news agency are you with?

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Re:Straight vs Gay
Nov 30, 2003 10:10AM PST

read both the post and the link provided.

where is the reference to Straight v. Gay?

david williams

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NT Read MY response above to Roger.
Nov 30, 2003 10:14AM PST
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Re:NT Read MY response above to Roger.
Nov 30, 2003 10:16AM PST

makes absolute [no] sense.
david williams

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NT too bad for you
Nov 30, 2003 10:22AM PST
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BTW, I READ the article, it was ONLY a "stepping stone". Take a break.
Nov 30, 2003 10:16AM PST
Sad
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Re:BTW, I READ the article, it was ONLY a
Nov 30, 2003 10:44AM PST

I would like to think you read it, considering you took the trouble to post it.

However like most articles it should be taken at face value, and not be subject to your editorializing, and in particular when the editorializing is a complete fabrication.

if there are any sexual preference connotations they are in your mind.

while the article is in of itself interesting, your added twist does not belong.

david williams

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Re:Re:BTW, I READ the article, it was ONLY a
Nov 30, 2003 10:52AM PST

So you say.

I see NOTHING wrong from taking one news story and talking about THE BIGGER PICTURE.

Leave it be, david.

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:BTW, I READ the article, it was ONLY a
Nov 30, 2003 11:12AM PST

the big picture in your mind?

for one I saw no mention in the link you posted.

david williams

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Re::BTW, I READ the article, it was ONLY a
Dec 1, 2003 10:41AM PST

SOMEBODY needs to keep the bigger picture in mind. Just because my idea is not in some article does not mean there is no truth in it.

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BTW, I READ the article, it was ONLY a
Dec 1, 2003 12:32PM PST
'Just because my idea is not in some article does not mean there is no truth in it.

If you have an idea or want to start some discussion, please feel free to do so.

Please do not post a link to some article that talks about an entirely different matter and then seek to introduce YOUR idea into it and try and back it up by all sorts of references to right wing radio, 2004 elections etc.

it has the effect of taking a perfectly valid article and turning it into utter nonsense and drivel.

david williams
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NT) Thanks for saying please, but I shall post as I see fit.
Dec 1, 2003 2:38PM PST
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Neither do we...
Dec 1, 2003 12:27AM PST
"I see NOTHING wrong from taking one news story and talking about THE BIGGER PICTURE."

So why didn't you? Why concentrate on some aspect that is so insignificant even the authors of the pieces on the site linked to couldn't be bothered to mention it?

Sorry Charlie...
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NT I submit to you that it is PI to be bringing my theory to light.
Dec 1, 2003 10:44AM PST