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Statement from Vizio on UHD Alliance, with UHDA reply

This post serves as a place to read the bulk of the statement Vizio gave CNET, which is referred to in this article:

http://www.cnet.com/news/vizio-says-new-tv-certification-program-has-serious-problems/

It is followed by Vizio's answers to a few specific questions we asked, and afterward the reply by the UHDA.

"VIZIO sees value in the industry specifying a premium experience for consumers but the "Premium 4K" certification program proposed by the UHDA falls short and has serious problems. The UHDA program does not sufficiently detail how to measure for or specify items like peak brightness or black level and as a result, certifies some products that we don't believe should qualify for a UHD Premium certification and would ignore other products that should be certified.

Specifically, the certification's 1000 Nit peak brightness spec does not address any limitations of blooming of haloing artifacts, which can dramatically affect dynamic range (contrast) and overall picture quality. The testing requirement only measures the center brightness point of a test pattern and does not measure how the surrounding black level is affected. To maximize contrast, the peak brightness should be measured at the same time, with the same pattern as black level, as is done with ANSI contrast measurements.

Similarly, the certification only states two specifications for Dynamic Range, or peak brightness vs black level with the LCD version specified at 1000 nit brightness with 0.05 nits black level. When looking at dynamic range of the specification, 1000 nits-to-0.05 gives you 20,000:1 contrast ratio. VIZIO's Reference Series gives you 800,000:1 contrast ratio, but in theory does not meet the UHDA "Premium 4K' spec. VIZIO's focus is performance and true dynamic range, which is a balance between brightness and black level.

As a result, VIZIO remains focused on the Dolby Vision format at this time, as we feel it is technologically superior and has substantially better picture quality resulting from a proper implementation of high dynamic range and extended color gamut. The combination of VIZIO's Full-Array LED backlight with 384 Active LED Zones®, custom quantum dot backlight system, and re-mastered feature film content from Warner Bros available on VUDU creates an entirely new level of picture quality for consumers that already surpasses what is possible with HDR10."

Question from CNET: Why isn't Vizio a member of the UHD Alliance?

Answer from Vizio: VIZIO felt the UHD Alliance was created by certain manufacturers with an agenda to promote specific hardware technologies at the expense of others, and to prevent other manufacturers' products from being certified, regardless of their picture quality merits. As a result, VIZIO has a number of concerns with the authenticity of the agenda of the organization and whether its certification program will realize the promise of HDR performance and benefit consumers. These concerns are evidenced by certification specifications that are lower quality than what VIZIO believes should be set for a true premium consumer experience.

Q: Will Vizio eventually join?

A: VIZIO is following the UHD Alliance closely and agrees with the idea of an HDR performance certification. We have some concerns that the group's specifications are too open-ended, as a result of individual manufacturer requirements, and can allow members to receive certification for products that do not truly realize the benefits of HDR.

Q: Does the Reference Series meet the specifications for UHD Alliance certification? If not, where does it fall short?

A: VIZIO has a number of concerns with how the UHDA specifications are achieved and how that could be misleading to consumers. Unlike, say, ANSI test patterns that measure both black and peak white levels with the same pattern, UHDA specifications allow for separate patterns for black and peak white measurements that do not exemplify real world results. We feel that the VIZIO Reference Series exceeds the real world performance characteristics of its competitors that may be certified as "UHD Alliance Premium" in areas that matter to HDR, such as black level, contrast, peak brightness and extended color gamut, and thanks to a combination of VIZIO's full-array LED backlight, 384 Active LED Zones and quantum dot Extended Color Spectrum, has one of the best performance capabilities in the market.

The UHD Alliance's reply

Here's the bulk of the reply given to CNET by the UHD Alliance:

"While the UHD Alliance respectfully rejects the premise of its Vizio colleagues, it is important to note that the Ultra HD Premium specification is format agnostic making a television's support of HDR10 or DolbyVision irrelevant to Ultra HD Premium certification, a premium experience that can be delivered using either technology. The UHD Alliance certification was developed collaboratively by the world's leading television manufacturers, technology companies and content creators, as well as with input and feedback from consumers. Had Vizio participated in the Alliance's efforts, their contributions would have been welcome."

Post was last edited on March 15, 2016 9:32 AM PDT

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A "Me Too" Situation

The manufacturers that support the UHD Alliance with the Ultra HD Premium specification, those products manufactured thus labeled are going with a "Me too" sort of stance. While all well and good, the loopholes in the certification Visio is explaining that do exist can give pause to them aligning their products with such a certification. However, if Visio had worked with the Alliance, instead of what appears to be against the UHD Alliance, so as to address those issues it feels were necessary, Visio, too, would have products so certified. Visio is trying to stand out from the other manufacturers, not playing "Me too" for advertising their products, but in the end, the consumer is once again confused, if they even understand (or care) what the "Ultra HD Premium" label on the UHD TV set means and Visio, for example, not having any. Honestly, some of these specially-designated sets are sure to vary in their abilities within the specs for such a designation and a consumer might like an LG over a Samsung or Sony, but it will depend more on the pricing, appearance and design of the UHD TV set has and what that consumer uses the set for over its labeled attributes. At very least, the "Ultra HD Premium" label is place to start regardless of the issues Vision has with its designation.

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REAL HDR 1000 LCD TV at Vizio ?

I get it that some folks like Vizio TV 's ,that's fine but I am not a Vizio or tier 2 brand TV customer
LOL ..when is Vizio HDR TV going to play in the big HDR TV sandbox we been hearing it for eons now

IMO opinion all this is a load of PR deflection since Vizio cant broad market an HDR Alliance or HDR 1000 compliant 4K HDR TV and whatever Sonys premium 4K HDR spec. is and so is an LCD TV maker dissing LCD TV's known & variable issues and proposed premium HDR marketing standards compliance measurements .


Vizio they probably can't or won't biuld a broad market 2017 TV KHDR to comply 1000 or + NITS now or maybe later and high color volume @ ~ or at DCI P3 % out of thier phosphor luminescent LED lamp /LCD panels like Samsung QDOT /QLED ,Sony Triluminos or LG LCD Nano cell WCG and high SDR sustained brightness above maybe 500 NITS and probably won't given the Vizio product so far and it may not be be 1500 -1800 -2000 NITS if they do . like Sony and Samsung .

Again .IMO thats all rich and maybe patently ridiculous as I see it given the Vizio TV product out now and IMO so are no TV tuners and no decent embedded smart TV platform , Roku or HDR outside of D.V. at Visio now and no HDR-10 .x LCD TV product but that works both ways with HDR formats today even at Samsung and no DV.

Why pretend or obfuscate a contrivance like this here , just make a real HDR 1000 LCD TV or don't say anything, IMO Vizio has no bona fide HDR broad market retail TV standing here ..


I see most Samsung , Sony and *maybe some LG LCD are the better long term TV as I have actually seen it at least with Sony and Samsung IMO and understand the LCD panels and electronics with my electronics education to form that opinion .

I roll my own LCD electronic panel calibrations and LCD TV repairs here and understand panels and TV well enough anyway .
ppffttt LMAO ,here at all this

Skirting around TV tuners and good smart TV with cumbersome **** pads ,skirting , the HDR alliance & HDR outside of DV. cant fix DV tone & luma mapping down to maybe a cheaply made OD TV product and a cheap phosphor luminescent HDR WCG panel 4K HDR processing TV like maybe a Vizio , H10 Hiscence or TCL ( P ) TV .


Trus`me my 2016 genuine 4K HDR 1000+ QDOT Samsung SUHD 4K HDR flagship ultra black Samsung~ direct FA01 panel binned TV can do ~1500 NIT HDR & 1350 NIT luma power peaks on SDR all and sustained retina searing whites and wide QDOT detailed colors ,whites ,shadows and blacks , & if you want , and otherwise up to ~ 7000:1 nude contrast & that makes it rock like no retail LCD TV you ever saw outside of a Sony 9ZD ,a 2017 Sony X930E or 2017 Samsung Q9 LCD as LCD goes but 4K HDR OLED TV is very good and blacker , I won't knock it because it is very good and an emissive panel.

Trus`me me if you don't have a good ultra black 1400- 1500 NIT LCD panel for a good while you don't know as far as LCD like this ,you won't see all those high luma and shadow nuances on a store demo loop and an uncalibrated panel.

OTOH the Samsung / Hisence Micro LED ( QD- LED alliance panel plant ) and Samsung visual products QD-LED plants are the thing when it all comes to those TV's first and probably beyond to others and maybe Foxconn/ Sharp display ,Innolux, BOE and AUO amd LGD will get with that later also.

Foxconn /Sharp display is talking 8K LCD right now.and who knows how far LG OLED can go it wont be bad in any case ,
If you use the remarkable current Samsung Smart hub platform and smart remote TV you will throw rocks at anything less for smart TV including the newest Android Sony Smart TV
I predict TCL , Hisense and Foxonn will vanquish Vizio given thier global scales ,supply and production capacities not present at Vizio OD without a manufacturing base or legacy and Samsung and LG are the baddest monsters for global TV unit scale and panel units . .
Sony corp .(all of Sony and Sony pictures and Sony Bravia TV combined ) is in chronic poor long term shape now but still better capitalized than Vizio which is nothing much by comparison.

I buy and own those 3 2013-2016 Sony ,Samsung,and LG tier one OEM brands (5 TV's ) and trus`me I wont give one up for a Vizio but the 2016 55" flagship retina searing Samsung 4K HDR 1000 + LCD is in here anyway but we have a long way to go to 20,000 NIT peak TV panels average folks preferred at Dolby labs !

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Why should you care what Vizio does or not?

If they choose not to follow others, and stil sell product, what's wrong with that? Why the bash?

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Reply re: contrivance

OK then as I see it the Vizio PRC spin above is just a fallacious contrivance in my educated opinion because thay cant or wont market a real conforming HDR 1000 +NIT ~DCI P3 colorspace HDR processing TV TV regardless of the retail marketing alliance or proprietary marketing standards they use for marketing (like Sony premium 4K HDR) or not and are running cheap phosphor luminescent LED phosphor panels and HDR processing TV product like Hisense HDR H10 and XXX and TCL HDR models below today's tier one brand LCD HDR luma power and color volume and high peak and sustained luma SDR so they come out with thin contrivance above to basically cop out of making better bread market HDR TV's they have promised but never brought to the broad market and thier best TV HDR TV was virtually stillborn and overpriced


Vizio can't charge Sony.Samsung or LG money for a statement product they don't need like a Vizio R or premium HDR 1000 conforming model tier and the Vizio R was not competitive in the market anyway .

Their contrived excuse here is " we don't follow the herd mentality business" and not only that they don't provide an adequate smart TV platform compared to the tier one brand but ,even best Buy Insignia and TCL has Roku that beats the Visio TV platforms now with or without the Vizio PDP controller .and any Tier one brand TV can do all that with a phone or PDP anyway.


It cost money to UL or CEC certify, electronically ,electrically and thermally design and produce 1000+ NIT luma power ~P3 DCI 4K (real ) HDR TV's and panels and Vizio won't even spring for the basics like a good smart TV platform ,embedded Roku or a TV tuner and something above a cheap photoluminescent LED phosphor WCG TV panel so they are what they are and QDOTS and like that and 1000 NIT + panels at Sony ,Samsung ain't cheap and usually only in the better TV s' most Hisense and TCL broad market HDR TV 's still use those cheap photoluminescence LED phosphor TV panels and lower NIT power LED panels too

Sony makes fully compliant HDR 1000 + nit ~ P3 DCI TV's without advertising HDR alliance specs or Samsung HDR 1000 standards ,Like Samsung they made thier own conforming standard for Sony premium 4K HDR that closely follows the others and may exceeds the others in the finished product like Samsung does in certain models like mine but they have better brighter panels and LED ,PSU and thermal designs for those TV's for that market and lesser HDR processing TV's and panels also .

If you like the second tier OD outsourced production rubbish that's fine a Vizio or something like that may be OK for an inexpensive second TV but for me not a primary display in this room or my family cinema room .

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I did buy a Vizio last year

I deliberately paid $50 less for the "dumb" version rather than the smart TV version. Other than the included software for internet access, the actual view screen was the same. Why would I do that? Well, because knowing that Netflix, Hulu, and other programs on these smart TV's become obsolete when one of those content providers chances the way their sites work, it seemed a smart TV would be a "dumb" move, since I could instead attach my computer to a dumb TV and have it always be "smart" for it instead. The best approach today is a dumb TV plus a computer media center attached to it.

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$50.00 eh?

ppfffttt if you are worried about $50.00 you can't afford more than a dumb 32" -40" new TV anyway and a 40" may be a stretch ☺☻

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LOL, reminds me of my dear departed uncle

He was born 1920 and died a few years ago at age 93. He would tell a story of when he was young and working at a shoe store (Florsheim as I recall) during the WW2. Leather had become cheaper due to extra meat being shipped over for the war efforts, and consequently shoe prices had dropped some. A man came in and finally found the pair of shoe's he liked, but the price wasn't right for him. He asked "Do you have something just like this, but in a higher price model?" So, my uncle went into the back, switched into a box with a higher price, came out and fitted him with the same shoes, and the many paid it happily.

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shoe box switch

pfffftttt sounds like your departed uncle was pretty savvy and the man was like a Vizio LCD TV buyer thinking he has a Sony or Samsung level TV buah ha ha !

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Actually a good move.

I too ignore or disable the smart part of the TV for this and another reason. My Amazon Fire 4K is almost twice as fast as the Smart TV. Not to mention how my 2009 year laptop which does media duties is better than a 2017 Smart TV.

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Amazon Fire Android box eh?

pffftttt If you have a Vizio or older smart TV I can see all that some of it can be intolerably slow and unstable .


OTOH my 4K HDR 1000 2016 Samsung flagship TV smart hub platform and the rest of the 2016 -2017 Smart hub Samsung are instant fast and will make you throw rocks at anthing even a spendy harmony remote and it's (RF) or (INF) smart remote controls the compatible sources ,your network and DirecTV Genie platforms better then the OEM remotes or a Harmony remote like mine and it's an RF remote with just a few intuitive buttons .

,Not only that the embedded chrome web browser is stable & works like Chrome on slow x86 PC and that ain't bad for a TV web browser .


I like Amazon prime video sometimes and it's active here and in my 2015 55"4K HDR Andoid Sony in the family cinema room and my 55" 4K HDR Samsung SUHD QDOT TV in here too , everything is up to 4K HDR if they have it ,even Youtube 4K HDR but my latest 1080p Roku 2 model hockey puck will beat the Vizio rubbish Vizio anyway but no 4K on it !

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Hockey sticks?

For the real deal, I fire up the laptop. I'm happy with the setup.

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You must have a cheap 2017 TV,a Vizio or dont know whats up

ppffttt Your laptop or my 2016 HP Pavilion Core i5 windows 10 desktop with clean windows 10 x 64 , x64 VLC , x86 Kodi 17 or MPC HC x64 can't touch my 55" 2016 4K HDR 1000 SUHD Samsung smart hub TV platform and Samsung one connect with media hdds connected directly to the Samsung One connect .or even wifi streaming from server.


ppfftttt ,you don't know what you are talking about here and who still has an old 2009 laptop PC anymore?.

My 55" 2015 Sony 4K HDR TV with Andoid Kodi 17 is better than a PC also just not as fast as the new Samsung

You don't need a x86 PC for media browsing or media players it's waste of time and clunky in windows and so is the windows PC overhead ,

only thing like that a PC is good for is transcoding media ,loading media drives ,ripping disk media an extended desktop pr PC gaming ,

You can make a decent swift HTPC with a lint money beadboard ARM PC ,some storage and linux now or get a Roku or just a newer TV and USB HDD's and an AVR for external 5.1 like I have on my 2 4K HDR TV's

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You're very combative.
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No reason to start a battle.

I really enjoy what I have and might move to more 4K UHD content over time.

Why should I pay to be leading edge?

For example, I don't own a Tesla. I bought a Leaf and very pleased with it.

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if you like what you have thats all good but you can study

Again, if you like what you have thats all good its not terrible and a 2009 PC and WMC on windows 7sp1 or MPC HC x64 Kodi 17 ,or VLC on windows 10 are not the worst thing on the planet

a PC makes a good netlix and Amazon browser as long as you know no 1080p Netflix in Chrome or Windows 7 sp1 also and for 5.1 media file AC-3 passthrough you need MPC HC x64 on windows 10 or the UWP Netflix app or edge for Netflix 5.1 and WMC wont work on windows 10 .


OTOH as for the rest of it frankly speaking may not know what you are talking about all the time and can't or wont support an argument to convince me otherwise.

TBH IMO you are way off base on HTPC vs a good smart TV platform or media player today in 2017 or 2016 for content consumption and by that I mean Samsung Smart hub or LG Webos or a swift 4K HDR android box and Sony Andoid below that on current smart TV platforms and Roku ,Amazon fire Andoid somewhere and a Chromecast cast ultra may be real decent I haven't tried it but nu Sony has built in regular chromecast and it ain't all that on Sony android

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As to study.

I'm not limited to Edge so I can play Netflix just fine on my setup. There are folk that want to place artificial limitations to advance their cause and you can poke holes in that rather quickly.

That said, as I use a PC as my HTPC base and own the Amazon Fire 4K player I can see I'm not way off base since I am here. It's fine and I like the solution. You seem to have a torch to carry but I can't follow you.

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What would Jesus say?

Luke 7:31-32

“To what, then, can I compare the men of this generation? What are they like? They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling out to one another: ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not weep."

What makes you think Vizio must dance to someone else's tune? Maybe they don't feel like following the lemmings.

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re number 2 IMO this is a contrivance

IMO Given that Vizio has been promising to deliver real conforming let's say HDR 1000 LCD for eons and fails IMO .............all this is a simple minded contrivance for the simple minds ,Vizio fanboys and marketing see above for technicals and the business cases .

I have an education in both fields and lots of multi national corp. business case experience and I can put a business case together because of the multinational corp. business management positions I retired from .

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edit

I forgot to add Vizio tried what we call "pull marketing " with the uncompetitive and over priced Visio R model HDR TV statement product ,IOW they thought folks would seek it out like the flagship Sony and Samsung LCD and LG OLED TV's and the product just below that that warrants "pull marketing " of it's own accord and with the necessary legacy for "pull marketing "

Vizio is a discount value play brand for "push marketing " IOW they make ad buys to sell the product at all the levels and don't have a flagship product and bridge product close to that that can use the tier one brand and model tier reputational "push market" ...................,like Pirelli P Zero ,Michelin , Goodyear Eagle ,Goodyear Wrangler Tires and Sony 9ZD ,X930E , LG OLED, Samsung SUHD TV's and instead they must put product in the discount stores and Best Buy and use "push marketing " like procter and gamble or Crest toothpaste.



The Vizio R was a foolish failure to deliver and "push market" a statement product which you should NOT do at any scale without building to a reputation for that statement product or niche`market from below or at small scale niche` marketing and absolutely deliver the goods out of the gate competitively for the product position without a high volume bridge product below that and so on. They failed business 101 .

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Is this for school grade?

Are you taking a marketing course in college and getting graded on this?

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Again,

Not entirely plausible today, , I'm comfortably retired with multiple incomes ,no financial need to work now and a nice monthly surplus and so on and maybe they can't afford me,I'm used to being a boss anyway !

I come from global multinationals (mostly at one a that is a ~ 105 year old household name all over globe. )

Again ,We did everything from raw materials production and supply to finished product for Aviation,Transportation, OEM ,B2B Aerospace and defense ,medical ,petrochemicals ,retail products ,industrial plastics,plastic films and so on and we even had our own corporate travel agency and some of our stuff is in a lot of aircraft,automobiles and so on and and in defense and aerospace systems and some of it has has been in and is in deep space probes ,space stations and on the moon since the Apollo missions anyway ☺☺

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(NT) NT - sort of like Tang?
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What I've seen and not seen in forums here.

One thing I have yet to see is a single post in these forums complaining of a cracked screen on a Vizio TV. Yet, I continually see people complaining about cracked screens on their Samsung TV's, especially the 50+ curved types. Furthermore, when people try to get Samsung to fix the problem, they start getting ignored instead. Just a few years ago Samsung was trying to keep it secret they had bad capacitor problem that if anyone knew of the not widely published recall, they could get a replacement for the defective TV's. I've not see that with Vizio either.

There's more to selling product than cramming as much as you can into it. Quality of product, pricing, customer support, among other considerations. Some prefer the Chevy, the Dodge, the Ford, while others insist on the Cadillac or the Lincoln. Cadillac, have experience there, great car, until things start going wrong with it and you have to pay for parts and labor. Costs 2-3 times as much as any other car to get fixed. Never again for me.

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another edit see bold type ,this page won't let me edit

Vizio is a discount value play brand for "push marketing " IOW they make ad buys to sell the product at all the levels and don't have a flagship product and bridge product close to that that can use the tier one brand and model tier reputational "pull market" ...................,like Pirelli P Zero ,Michelin , Goodyear Eagle ,Goodyear Wrangler Tires and Sony 9ZD ,X930E , LG OLED, Samsung SUHD TV's

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Ahhh, so that's it.

You offered yourself to them and they failed to hire you? What will you think or feel if they actually continue to succeed in their current "game plan"?

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Really ?

pfffttt not entirely plausible , I'm comfortably retired with multiple incomes ,no financial need to work now and a nice monthly surplus and so on and maybe they can't afford me,I'm used to being a boss anyway !

I come from global multinationals (mostly at one a that is a ~ 105 year old household name all over globe. )

We did everything from raw materials production and supply to finished product for Aviation,Transportation, OEM ,B2B Aerospace and defense ,medical ,petrochemicals ,retail products ,industrial plastics,plastic films and so on and we even had our own corporate travel agency and some of our stuff is in a lot of aircraft,automobiles and so on and and in defense and aerospace systems and some of it has has been in and is in deep space probes ,space stations and on the moon since the Apollo missions anyway ☺☺

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You made my day!!

Thanks a lot... It worked for me.

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All but *maybe one Vizio can not make HDR 100 spec

Nothing below the stillborn overpriced Vizio R can meet HDR 1000 spec that's the real thing here noting any number of Sony ,Samsung or LG TV's have no difficulty doing that .

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I'm curious, do you own a Vizio?

Or maybe owned that particular model? Right now in Maryland I'm in front of a 26" Westinghouse TV as monitor and the side controls on it are awkward to use, not very intuitive, but it's 1080P and makes a great picture. I actually prefer using the 32" Vizio I leave at my winter place in Florida and the controls on it ARE intuitive, easy to use. People obviously are buying Vizio and I don't think it's just because they are less expensive. There's a TV out there called Element, and I've a friend using one of those and he HATES it, LOL. If you want to talk about both cheap and lack of quality, there's one you can bash.

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No but I can diag and repair TV's and put LED in the panels.

Westinghouse digital is Chinese Tong Fang made junk same as Emerson ,Amazon Fire Emerson ,Seiki and the USA assembled Tong Fang made Emerson and maybe Seiki knock down kits ,those are cheap junk tier 3 or worse brands but they don't cost a lot .

Vizio is a better more expensive product and a legitimate tier 2 brand like TCL and Hisense , Toshiba Compal and the Best Buy exclusive brands from Hisense and the Hisense Sharp TV's .


None of those are Sony, Samsung or LG tier one TV product and neither are Vizio but they are not bad for the money .

Vizio doesn't make TVs and thwe quality control and parts used of the different company's plants they are made in can vary.

Vizio are made by OEM's/ODM's like Amtran,Winton and maybe Compal and something else but are VIzio OD designs to a point but maybe grade B panels and or LCD cells is what some supply chain folks have said more than once .
Vizo can be fine for a lot of folks but not me so much today ,some of the pictures on them aren't bad below HDR .

Aside from a nice 2015 4K HDR 55" Sony Triluminos in the family cinema room my retina searing flagship tier 2016 Samsung 55" 4K HDR 1000 QDOT TV is binned for a Samsung direct ultra black /ultra clear moth eye flat screen panel @ 1500 NITS and 7000:1 contrast .


I rolled in a conforming electronic calibration to an elevated back light seting and it's the bomb there are only maybe 4 2017 4K HDR model TVs below you can get away with that very well on


Only the 2017 Samsung Q9 and Q9C QLED LCD TV's and Sony Triluminos X930E /X940E and Sony 9ZD LCD are in that 2017 flagship LCD level just like a 2016 Samsung KS 8000/9000 if you set aside 4K HDR OLED and the decent 2017 Sony X900E that can't get as bright as the other 6 LCD here but it's a real decent upper mid range TV and better than any Vizio .

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