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General discussion

State of affairs for baby Charlie

Jul 15, 2017 2:52AM PDT

The current state of affairs in the tragic case of baby Charlie (that was discussed in https://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions/repeal-and-replace/2/#post-d3676193-a176-4274-aa2c-b2c6a26f7eb3 ) is that Dr Michio Hirano, a professor of neurology at the Columbia University Medical Center in New York is coming over to London for a second opinion about the condition and possible future and treatment of Charlie after examining him.

It seems better indeed to fly a doctor across the ocean than a baby that needs continuous life support because he can't breathe on his own.

Discussion is locked

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There was a time when people died from "consumption".
Jul 15, 2017 3:13AM PDT

Once the fever set in, all that was left was the vigil. Today, we use the term "palliative care" but for other diseases. We argue, when it becomes politically expedient, whether to fund thousands of hours of medical research time to look for a cure for "orphaned" diseases. These sort of discussions won't end as long as there are people who actually value human life over practicality.

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Agreed. However ...
Jul 15, 2017 9:01AM PDT

Charlie is in the First World, with literate parents, with resources, with publicity. Meanwhile, in the Third World, many kids and adults with lesser problems just lay down and die. Myself, I wish all the best for the kid, but not to the point of getting into the controversy with IMO no winners.
Slightly related, at least on the quality of government, the Pope offered the use of a children's hospital the Church owns; very nice indeed; very practical. Just out is the announcement that a former director of that hospital is on trial for mishandling funds.
Not a religion comment, a people comment. With a little patience, this way will turn out best: Isa 33:24

Post was last edited on July 15, 2017 2:38 PM PDT

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No winners is probably right
Jul 15, 2017 11:58AM PDT

It's a shame that we toss too many such issues into the political arena looking for solutions. While each politician is a person with individual ethics, they may act differently as a collective body. Meanwhile, the rest of us get to wash our hands of all guilt and pile it on our politicians instead.
We humans were infected by other failings at birth. One of these is that, when any group is held within our disfavor, any member of that group who misbehaves becomes our excuse to dismiss it entirely. Happy

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It's a tough call
Jul 15, 2017 10:50AM PDT

No matter how many medical types tell you there is no hope It's still your call and you have to live with it.

Thankfully I have never had to make that call although it was close with my parents.

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In the hope of supplying light, not heat.
Jul 17, 2017 7:13PM PDT
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As a parent I understand their fight.
Jul 24, 2017 4:12PM PDT

And I respect their decision hard though it is.
Dafydd.

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It didn't take long, w/o machines.
Jul 28, 2017 5:35PM PDT
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Re: Charlie Gard
Jul 31, 2017 1:21PM PDT

In the announcement the parents made when accepting the opinion of professor Hirano that there was no hope for recovery any more, I saw the father say on TV "Charlie will be between the Angels soon."

Isn't that a better place for a boy that can't breathe, feel or hear due to some awful genetic error than being connected to a life support system in a hospital?

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Have to agree Kees.
Jul 31, 2017 1:38PM PDT

They say "hope springs eternal" but sometimes you have to accept the inevitable.
Dafydd.

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'Between the angels is new to me.'
Jul 31, 2017 2:43PM PDT

'Gone home to be with the Lord' is more common.
Here's one from many child funeral services: 'God wanted another angel in heaven.'
What's wrong with that picture? Read Gen 1:1.
My comment BTW was about the futility of the machines, in light of the professional opinions.
Small comfort maybe, but the medical people really hate to lose one. Professional detachment is learned, beginning with interning.

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angels and children
Jul 31, 2017 2:52PM PDT

Matthew chapter 18

1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.

6“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

10“See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

Matthew chapter 22

Jesus replied, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angels in heaven.

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Too prolix again.
Aug 1, 2017 12:39AM PDT

Creator of the universe should make his own angels. Gen 1:27
No work in heaven for children. Rev 5:9,10
Work on earth for everyone. Gen 1:28
Parents get them back when the memorial tombs are emptied. John 5:28,29; 1John 4;8
Disgusting to think he would take another parent's child; he knows what it's like to lose one. Ex 20:15; Mt 12:40
Bible simple, easy, beneficial. Isa 48:17,18. Philosophy useless, dangerous. Eph 5:6

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man made in the image of God
Aug 1, 2017 9:35AM PDT

Angels who left their first habitation and had children by human females. Lot of similarities there. King David said when his first son by Bathsheba died that he (David) couldn't bring him back to earth, but that one day he'd go to be with him, not meet him at some memorial tomb. "the spirit returns unto God who gave it". Should we discuss the children killed in the invasion of Canaan during Joshua's day, at God's command? It's all there in the Bible, so keep looking, I believe you can find the verses.

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Kees, the Bible's on our side.
Aug 1, 2017 8:02PM PDT

1Cor 15:26, "And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing."
Notice that death is an enemy, and it will be eliminated completely, at some future time.
Until then, the dead are at rest, "asleep" as the Bible puts it. Ps 13:3; Acts 7:60; 13:36; 1Cor 7:39; 15:6; 15:18,20, 51; 1Thess 4:14,15; 2Pet 3:4. Good place for an infant, right?
At these places your Bible may use "died" for, say, "fell asleep in death" because the Greek before those translators used some variant of two Gk. words for sleep. This contradicted their unscriptural ideas about heaven, hell, purgatory and such, so they omitted the sleep part.
And at John 11:11-13 in all Bibles I'm aware of, Jesus used sleep to mean the death of his friend Lazarus. [The Dutch is "slaapt".] The 'die and go to heaven' folks couldn't avoid it there.
Charlie is OK.

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BTW, for religious reasons we carry an "Advanced
Jul 31, 2017 2:57PM PDT

Health Care Directive". Has a space for end-of-life-matters. Mine says 'Pull the plug'. I happen to know my son's, which is 'Keep pumpin', Doc!' Conscience matter in either case. Charlie couldn't decide for himself, but his parents did. One problem solved.
Curing him was a very long and expensive shot, on another continent. Unsolvable.
A couple of RCC publications were calling the British Court's deliberations part of "the culture of death" [in our society]. Heat, not light.

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Here's an appropriate, and current, link.
Jul 31, 2017 3:10PM PDT