Spy versus Spy??

Calling that swap rather fast is an understatement. In my opinion, something smells here. Russia is the country that started the swap negotiations, and they wanted it done with all possible speed.
Why the hurry? Look at the main person offered in their part of the swap, he had been imprisoned for 11 years. What is his intelligence value for the U.S. after all this time? What could have been the future intelligence value for the U.S. of the people we gave up? We'll never know.
The swap looks one-sided to me, which makes me wonder why the administration gave in to Russia's demand for speed. I'd like to see the MSM investigate this deal fully and relate their findings to the people of the U.S. If nothing else, why didn't the administration hold out for a better deal, instead of so quickly giving Russia exactly what they wanted?

Such as? (Do you know what else is in the deal?...How do you know?)

Why the hurry?

Why drag their feet? (spend money on a trial and lock them up for a few years...THEN trade, or keep them forever?)

Both the Kremlin and the administration of President Barack Obama sought to prevent the arrests from affecting relations that had been improving after hitting lows with Russia's 2008 war against Georgia.

Obama, who hosted Russian President Dmitry Medvedev at the White House last month, needs Moscow's help for efforts to rein in Iran's nuclear program and keep supply lines open for the war in Afghanistan. Russia wants U.S. support to gain entry to the World Trade Organization.

Remember when Obama scrapped the missile defense shield program in Eastern Europe? Poland seemed to be quite upset about that. It seems to me that Obama gives up a lot to Russia.
I still want to know why the latest spy deal was so quick. Heck, I've spent more time negotiating a new car buy. But then, my major concern was not the dealer's well being, but mine.

If this were a car purchase, President Barry would be more concerned with the dealer's well being.

This man means to destroy America's influence in the world, IMO - regardless of the catastrophic possibilities arising from that.

A basic thing that gets me about the situation is that the U.S. was the offended party, the spies caught were from Russia. Yet I have seen the argument made that the U.S. should have accepted the short end of a deal to improve relations with Russia. It seems to me that as the country that committed the offense, Russia should be the country that should have been making concessions to the offended country, the U.S. Well, at least that's the fastest I have ever seen the Department of State move (grin).

Dating from cold war times. Missiles in Western Europe matched by missiles in Eastern Europe, and vice versa. A stand-off.

Now there is no west/east Europe there's no need for the stand-off. But Russia is still nervous about seeing missiles deployed just outside it's front door, whether pointed at Iran or elsewhere. And they have every right to be considering the history of the invasions of Russia in recent times.

Put it this way, would America like to see missiles in Cuba?

I'm somewhat surprised that the missile defense shield program in Poland has been re-introduced recently, although I understand the concerns over Iran. I just hope Russia does too.

Mark

Mark, are you talking about what is called the Cuban Missile Crisis in Kennedy's time? Consider that the worry was about offensive weapons. The more current missile situation that I mentioned was about interceptors, which are defensive missiles, a quite different situation.

But according to Russia and Cuba at the time, they were 'defensive weapons' to help protect Cuba from the Imperialistic designs of the corrupt and decadent West.

See how different nations view things?

Mark

and then the Bay of Pigs, maybe Cuba had a bit of reason to view US suspiciously.

There were 3 or 4 times the US sent troops into Cuba I believe before Castro.

And the Cuban missiles were after the western allies positioned missiles in Britain, Italy and Turkey that could reach Moscow.

I agree we couldn't ignore or allow missiles in Cuba, but it was just another escalation of the Cold War, not an isolated incident.

deliberately straight reply to a not so straight post here is it James?

And the dealers main concern was not your well being.....

Did you swap YOUR money for HIS car?

you took YOUR time negotiating...and so did the dealer (take YOUR time)

That's called a negotiations...both sides get something they each want

It appears that none of the fourteen were actually Americans but all were in custody somewhere. Now, between Russia and the US, we have 14 people out there who may soon be on the loose. They need to be employed and, maybe, have only one real skill.

Actually, no. The last time I bought a car I was giving the impression that I wasn't in a hurry. But I knew that the dealer was. He has already reported the car I was after as sold, and had collected monies from the manufacturer. I also knew that in 48 hours he was going to be "floor planned" my the manufacturer and would be caught red-handed. He had to get that vehicle off of the lot.
See the parallel to the current spy deal that is the subject under discussion? Where it was, the car could have given damaging information about the dealer, so to get it out of a location where it could give that information, he made a big sacrifice in price. And with the spy situation, where Russia wanted to get the spies and potential damaging information elsewhere. Looking at it that way, I think Obama shouldn't have made such a quick lopsided deal favoring Russia, but have pressed Russia for a much better deal.

AND he only had 48 hours...AND you had ....72 hours?

You were both in the same time frame.

I don't suppose he was bringing the car to YOUR door, You went to the car lot.

President Obama's national security team spent weeks before the arrest of 10 Russian spies preparing for their takedown and assembling a list of prisoners Moscow might be willing to trade for the agents, senior administration officials said Friday.
The briefers laid out "the broad contours" of what had been a decade-long investigation of a network of Russian "sleeper" agents placed in this country under false identities, and provided specifics about the individual agents.

You spent hours...Obamas team spent weeks....I know that won't satisfy you but that's the way the cookie crumbles..

I hope you're happy with your car...you're not going to be happy with the spy swap.

No, He didn't bring the car to my door. BUT, a condition of the sale was that I drive that vehicle off the lot immediately, and not bring it back to the lot for any reason until the floor plan was over. He even let me drive it off the lot with just a telephone assurance from the credit union that they and I would make a finance agreement. Of course, we were dealing with the State Department Federal Credit Union, and in that area, that organization had quite bit of trust with local merchants.

not bring it back to the lot for any reason until the floor plan was over.

and here I thought he only had 48 hours to get it off the lot....

You should have negotiated to be able to bring it back if something broke, before the floor plan was over...you rushed into the deal.

Think it through. What could have happened if I had taken it back for maintenance when the factory doing the floor plan and he had seen the dealer temporary tag on a new vehicle that the dealer had reported as sold months ago? Considering the great deal I got, I was quite willing to get it off the lot and keep it off for the time it took to make sure the floor plan was over, including a safety time in case the floor plan period ran a little longer than expected.
I knew what he was doing, and that knowledge allowed me to make that deal. My part of my agreement was to get it off the lot and keep it off for a period. If that wasn't part of the deal, it wouldn't have been made. But you say that I should have been given the power to bring it back while the floor plan was in progress if it needed maintenance. That makes no sense, agree to not do something, and still reserving the right to do it.
The wheels on the bus go round and round....

That makes no sense, agree to not do something, and still reserving the right to do it.

That's why I didn't suggest it.....You did, by adding my suggestion to what you did, I didn't combine them.

I knew what he was doing, Accessory to Fraud?

The wheels on the bus go round and round.... What are you doing on the/a bus?...Car broke down and "Floor Plan Deals" still on?

Germany 1 Uruguay 1 after 45 minutes

Do you know if this was just a bookkeeping error or something this dealer or other dealers do deliberately? If not an honest mistake, I would wonder why anyone would do business at all with such a place. I always consider that, if someone would lie for me, they'd lie to me just as quickly.

though I might reposition a few. I don't know why "new home builders" were listed as these aren't folks we come in contact with regularly to even know how to rate them.

It's unusual how I found about it. I was looking for a specific vehicle with unusual options, due to a handicap. Another dealer, with whom I formed a friendship agreed to find one for me in the area. He found one at another dealer and called me up. When we were talking, he mentioned upset with that particular dealer, and if I wanted to know something about that car that might help me strike a hard bargain. I said yes, and he gave me that information. How he knew, I don't know, but he dealt in the same brand of cars.
Oh, for other posters in this thread, in the "legal eagle" vein, I had unverified, second-hand information. I felt it was worth considering in making a deal, so I considered it. The result was a great price.

espionage was involved. Too bad car shopping is such a game of wits. Someone recorded a song about having friends in low places. Guess it's good to have such at time.

... knowing how much a product actually costs. Lots of hidden costs make a vehicle more expensive, but there are hidden offsets too. Take for example that every official dealer gets an advertising stipend for every car delivered from the manufacturer. This is often a $400 to $800 dollar sum that the dealer is supposed to spend on advertising for each individual vehicle. Don't advertise the car and that makes for a profit to the dealer that is never considered during negotiations. A little research can tell you what this stipend is for the model you are looking at, and a buyer can ask for part of this profit to be taken off the car price.

A dealer special prep for stain proofing a car can cost the buyer $300, but it cost the dealer $40 bucks for a can of Scotch Guard and the high school dropout that applied it. High end floor mats cost hundreds more from the dealer, or much less if purchased separately from the same manufacturer.

A $700 in dash navigation system is often out performed by a $250 after market GPS. Easier to update the maps in the aftermarket one, too.

Used cars have other costs, but knowing what they are can save you money.

BTW... if a dealer says they will give you $2000 trade in up front for any vehicle you can drag onto the lot... then they had that money to give to you, even before the trade in actually happens.

which is typically 2 or 3 percent of dealer invoice. This money is rebated to the dealer when the car is sold. Another charge that's grown dramatically around here is the "documentation fee" which is what the dealer adds for having a secretary type up all the necessary paperwork. The last time I bought a car it was about 250 bucks added after the deal and would not be negotiated. Just how long could it take this secretary to fill in the forms to apply for your license and title? Now the worst scam I think comes when buying a used car from a dealer. They have what's called their "certified" vehicles which is supposed to mean they've been thoroughly inspected in a manner that qualifies them for purchase of their extended warranty. The certification and warranty are actually two separate charges that can add considerably to the sticker price. As well, the warranty extension isn't as long as is stated. A 7 year extended warranty doesn't give you 7 years from purchase but from the day the car was sold to the original owner. They won't tell you what date that was either. You may be able to use Carfax to find out, however. The price of the warranty is also fixed so if you buy a year old car or a 3 year old car with a 7 year extended warranty you pay the same price for it. I don't buy the certification thing or the warranty but I do trust that dealers tend to have the better used cars on their lots. With a little luck, you get to a newly delivered car before it get "certified".