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Specter: Bush violated the law.

by Dan McC / February 5, 2006 5:19 AM PST
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Yippe skip,
by duckman / February 5, 2006 5:26 AM PST

another liberal out to get Bush.

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(NT) (NT) Specter is in no way a liberal.
by Dan McC / February 5, 2006 5:35 AM PST
In reply to: Yippe skip,
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Yeah,
by duckman / February 5, 2006 5:36 AM PST

he's as Conservative as I am Liberal.

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Regardless, why would he
by Dan McC / February 5, 2006 5:40 AM PST
In reply to: Yeah,

be out to "get" bush?

Dan

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(NT) (NT) He's pandering to his Liberal base
by duckman / February 5, 2006 5:43 AM PST
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He's not.
by EdH / February 5, 2006 6:04 AM PST

If you ever have listened to Arlen Specter you know that he is very carfeful at picking out his words and can say things without actually saying anything. So someone might THINK he said a certain thing that in fact he never did.

If he had actually said what you claim the headlines would be screaming it.

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Only to an extreme conservative is Spector liberal, DM
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / February 5, 2006 7:47 AM PST
In reply to: Yeah,

For example, he voted for both Thomas and Alito... His lifetime ADA rating is 50, which ranks him as a moderate. His ACU rankings also show him as a moderate lifetime (44), but moving rapidly rightwards (65 and 75 for 2003 and 2004, respectively).

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Response
by duckman / February 5, 2006 8:17 AM PST

And of course only an extreme liberal would think specter a Conservative. He voted for Alito??? Of course he did HE IS EMMINETLY QUALIFIED. Only some kind of partisan hack would have not voted for him.

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You didn't comment on the two rankings, DM.
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / February 5, 2006 12:04 PM PST
In reply to: Response

As for Alito, yes he was qualified. But he is as far outside the mainstream as Bork -- he just hid it better. His decisions on the lower court show a consistent patern of voting with big business and government and against consumers and the "little guy," even in cases where he was in the minority. That pattern shows him to be a "tool of the establishment," to use a phrase I haven't used in many, many years.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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(NT) (NT) lifetime = 44 = NOT CONSERVATIVE
by duckman / February 5, 2006 12:08 PM PST
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The original, nutty suggestion was that
by Dan McC / February 5, 2006 10:30 PM PST

he was a liberal. That is certainly not the case.

Dan

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But of course,
by duckman / February 5, 2006 11:25 PM PST

you must think Kennedy and Kerry are "mainstream"

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Regardless of anyone else's position, Specter is not
by Dan McC / February 5, 2006 11:27 PM PST
In reply to: But of course,

a liberal, as some mistakenly believe.

Dan

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Regardless of the nit-pickery going on here, Specter's
by Ziks511 / February 10, 2006 8:18 PM PST
In reply to: But of course,

voting record makes him a centerist Republican which in no way makes him liberal. To be a liberal he would have to score below 35, to be a conservative he would have to score above 65 which he has in two consecutive years, '03 and '04.

But don't let that get in the way of your ever changing opinions of people based purely on your personal bias on this or other issues. Next week he'll say something that will have you dancing in the street.

Rob

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No, the original nutty suggestion was...
by EdH / February 5, 2006 11:26 PM PST

that Bush broke the law.

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(NT) (NT) Take that up with non-liberal Specter
by Dan McC / February 11, 2006 12:39 PM PST
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Outside the mainstream?
by Evie / February 5, 2006 11:13 PM PST

I guess the polls don't count when they don't support your warped view. Even the 58-42 vote shows just WHO is outside the mainstream.

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Only someone fully...
by Edward ODaniel / February 5, 2006 10:40 PM PST

and immovably reclined on his left side rather than simply listing heavily to port could possibly think Specter the RINO is not liberal.

You tend to think all liberals must be on the ultra far left with you or they are "moderates". That muddy thinking tries to make HRC anf WJC moderates and it makes Waxman a "moderate" and anyone else just slightly to the right of yourself or Kennedy or Lenin a "moderate" and it just ain't so. Specter is even left of a couple of moderate Democrats such as Tim Johnson, Kent Conrad, and Ben Nelson.

Specter is left of middle and middle is moderate--that makes Specter liberal.

DK-----------specter-L<----M---->R-----------------ME--

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Speaking of lying on your far-right side.
by Ziks511 / February 11, 2006 8:17 PM PST
In reply to: Only someone fully...

Duckman says Specter's lifetime score is 44 which is in the moderate zone allowing 10 points either side. 50 is not some divide like the Grand Canyon after all. And Specter's been there a long time, but most of it during Republican administrations which have pushed the middle I remember and recognize far to the right. Tell me the guy who mugged Anita Hill on the floor the Senate and spearheaded Clarence Thomas campaign for the Supreme Court is a Liberal and I'l tell you you're as wrong as you are self identifiedly Far Right.

Specter's voting record makes him a centerist Republican in a field which has had its markers moved rightward for 35 years. It in no way makes him liberal. To be a true liberal he would have to score below 35 (or at least below 40), to be a conservative he would have to score above 65 (or at least above 60) which he has in two consecutive years, '03 and '04. Anything between 40 and 60 makes him a centerist.

Rob

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Response
by duckman / February 11, 2006 8:34 PM PST

And of course your delusional fog doesn?t allow you to see that the media is biased, so that skews you some.

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Hold on there, Dan...
by EdH / February 5, 2006 5:53 AM PST

Are you sure? Why don't you point it out to me in the transcript of the show?

TRANSCRIPT

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(NT) (NT) Page 7.
by Dan McC / February 5, 2006 6:18 AM PST
In reply to: Hold on there, Dan...
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(NT) (NT) That's a stretch.
by EdH / February 5, 2006 6:29 AM PST
In reply to: (NT) Page 7.
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Note how he cites no authority for his 'belief'...
by Edward ODaniel / February 5, 2006 6:34 AM PST

and that he is either unaware (doubtful since he was recently reminded yesterday) that two years AFTER the date he mentions for the 1978 FISA two federal courts found that FISA had authority over DOMESTIC instances but not over those affecting the President's prerogative for national security.

Haven't done much actual reading on the subject and court precedents have you Dan despite several direct links being made available.

The only thing "strained and unrealistic" is denial in the face of so very many presidential precedents as well as every court decision that has touched on the subject.

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(NT) (NT) DirtyRich: Specter and his ilk lack honesty and integri
by dirtyrich / February 5, 2006 6:34 AM PST
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(NT) (NT) Is this a farkle??
by duckman / February 5, 2006 7:21 AM PST
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Other Republicans are uneasy about the legality and
by Ziks511 / February 10, 2006 8:23 PM PST
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Elaine Kamarck: How the Dems can win wiretap debate
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / February 11, 2006 1:51 AM PST
Dems can win wiretap debate by Foucsing on rule of law.

>> If Democrats get sucked into a debate over tactics in the war on terror, they will lose. But it's hard to see how they lose if they wage the debate over the rule of law and if they show their willingness to amend the law to strengthen the war on terror.

Most important of all, however, is that they take strong positions, grounded in strong values. So how about this for a start, provided to me by my colleague Bill Galston of the Brookings Institution: "We believe that the conduct of war is consistent with the rule of law." It could even fit on a bumper sticker. <<

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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In other words..
by EdH / February 11, 2006 5:23 AM PST

hey don't care about stopping terrorists, they care only about winning elections.

Thought so.

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Really think so? Dems are ignoring the rule of law...
by Edward ODaniel / February 11, 2006 9:53 AM PST
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/fisa111802opn.pdf

Although Truong suggested the line it drew was a constitutional minimum that would apply to a FISA surveillance, see id. at 914 n.4, it had no occasion to consider the application of the statute carefully. The Truong court, as did all the other courts to have decided the issue, held that the President did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information.26 It was incumbent upon the court, therefore, to determine the boundaries of that constitutional authority in the case before it. We take for granted that the President does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President?s constitutional power. The question before us is the reverse, does FISA amplify the President?s power by providing a mechanism that at least approaches a classic warrant and which therefore supports the government?s contention that FISA searches are constitutionally reasonable.
...
Although the Court in City of Indianapolis cautioned that the threat to society is not dispositive in determining whether a search or seizure is reasonable, it certainly remains a crucial factor. Our case may well involve the most serious threat our country faces. Even without taking into account the President?s inherent constitutional authority to conduct warrantless foreign intelligence surveillance, we think the procedures and government showings required under FISA, if they do not meet the minimum Fourth Amendment warrant standards, certainly come close. We, therefore, believe firmly, applying the balancing test drawn from Keith, that FISA as amended is constitutional because the surveillances it authorizes are reasonable.

U.S. v. Truong Dinh Hung
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:Ba6LCpUCEQMJ:www.jurisearch.com/newroot/caselink.asp%3Fseries%3DF.2d%26citationno%3D629%2BF.2d%2B908++%22Truong+Dinh%22+%22need+not+always+obtain+a+warrant%22&hl=en

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