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Speaking of bumps and such

by JP Bill / March 31, 2012 5:58 AM PDT
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Saw that earlier but can't think it as valuable
by Steven Haninger / March 31, 2012 6:09 AM PDT

as what would come from a coroner's report. Do you have that one? Granted, he had the opportunity to see Martin's body close up but why should we accept his observations of Zimmerman in the poor quality video? I don't think they could be relevant. One thing the funeral director's comments could support is that Zimmerman didn't lay a blow on Martin. If anyone was bruised bodily, it would have been Zimmerman. The funeral director commented on Martin's hands. Well, let's hear what the coroner would say but I'd think there could be no evidence of bruising or edema with Martin's life being ended before those bodily responses to blows could take place. Just my own amateur thoughts but I'll wait to see what the coroner has to offer.

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If anyone was bruised bodily, it would have been Zimmerman.
by JP Bill / March 31, 2012 6:37 AM PDT

If anyone was bruised bodily, it would have been Zimmerman.

A couple points..IF there was a scuffle,

the person doing the punching should have abrasions on their hands.

Zimmerman was 80 lbs heavier, why assume the heavier person would be the one that gets bruised?

coroner's report. Do you have that one?

I'm preparing it as we speak.

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Why would Zimmerman be bruised and Martin not?

That could be simple. Bruises don't appear until healing begins. For healing to begin, the person needs to be alive...or so I'd think. There could well have been damage to both person's bodies but it would take testing to prove it if physical evidence wasn't present. Muscle damage is easy to detect by certain enzymes that are released during the healing process. Alas, these take time to present and cannot be determined on one who dies during the fight. I can't know about what sort of damage should occur to a person's hands by striking another in the face. I've not that kind of personal experience so will leave that to others who do a lot of fisticuffs...or the coroner, if details are ever released. All we have heard so far is that police reports either corroborate or don't reject Zimmerman's story. We are left to trust the police or the mobs who don't believe them.

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RE: Bruises don't appear until healing begins.
by JP Bill / March 31, 2012 12:05 PM PDT

They also don't appear if you're not hit, or you don't hit something.

If there is nothing to heal....why start healing?

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(NT) ur arguing about what you don't even know.
by James Denison / March 31, 2012 5:02 PM PDT
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by Josh K / March 31, 2012 11:53 PM PDT

This from the guy who has Trayvon Martin stoned and shoplifting from the 7-11 before he was murdered.

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And if the funeral director is correct
by Steven Haninger / March 31, 2012 7:19 PM PDT

Martin wasn't hit either. Maybe no one was hit. All we can do is come up with "maybes". That why I would wait and see if the coroner has anything to say. Street fights are stupid. Verbal confrontation yields to physical confrontation and who makes the first aggressive move cannot be determined by outcome anyway. Who's generally to blame?...maybe both?...more maybes is all you get.

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The funeral director is not correct and has no ...
by Tony Holmes / March 31, 2012 8:18 PM PDT

idea what he's talking about.He's thinks he's bolstering the contention that Zimmerman was uninjured in the video with his own "evidence".

I wonder if he and others will actually believe what's written in the actual police report?

I just happened to find a PDF of it:


Scroll to page 3 and notice the statement of one of the attending officers:"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman,I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass,as if he had been laying on his back on the ground.Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head."

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fiddle faddle
by James Denison / March 31, 2012 11:02 PM PDT

why mess with facts when making crap up is so much more fun.

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I see one...or maybe more...conflicts with other evidence
by Steven Haninger / April 1, 2012 12:49 AM PDT

I believe it was you who posted something about Zimmerman's and Martin's clothing being removed, bagged and tagged as evidence. The police report stated that Zimmerman was wearing a red jacket The video of his arrival at the station in handcuffs shows him wearing a two-toned jacket with red as the predominant color. The police officer in the video seems to be examining the jacket he is wearing and finds something on it that he wipes on his pants...or so it appears to me. I suppose this could mean his jacket wasn't taken at the scene of the shooting.

I also saw an interview of another man claiming to be a paramedic. Of course the media is now seeking their own "expert" witnesses. In any event, this man suggested that a trip to the hospital was SOP if there was any indication of possible head injuries at all. In your link, the statement by officer Timothy Smith is really telling. It does suggest that Zimmerman was coherent and cooperative. The aforementioned paramedic suggested that head injuries often result in just the opposite...that a person loses cognitive ability in varying degrees. My impression of his comments was that Zimmerman was too much in control of himself and should have either been in a stupor or a raving maniac. I would guess he thinks that not losing one's cool implies guilt.

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Yeah that was me,in my haste to post it......
by Tony Holmes / April 1, 2012 2:58 AM PDT

I screwed up what my SIL told me over the phone.His dept would have taken Zimmerman's clothes and given him one of those red? tyvek suits to wear.Who knows,they mave have done that once he was in the station.

One thing I'm certain of,it's SOP to 'ask' if you want to go to the hospital,they can't force you to and make you sign a release if you decline.(law suits).I don't think I'd call a lacerated scalp a head injury,evidently the attending paramedics only field dressed it and turned him over to the cops.I guess he thinks it's a requirement that you go crazy after being hit in the head a few times.I would have gone if it was me and gotten additional documentation of my injuries.

Zimmerman was calm and cooperative with cops and could have lawyered up at that point but didn't.I think Zimmerman was a well trained and diciplined gun owner that wasn't brandishing a gun like a crazy man prior to the shooting,he drew his weapon at the last possible moment when in fear for his life and that's to his credit.

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"he drew his weapon at the last possible moment"
by Josh K / April 1, 2012 4:11 AM PDT

And you know this how?

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Yeah, maybe he could have
by James Denison / April 1, 2012 11:41 AM PDT

...taken a few more blows to the head before passing out. What would have happened then?

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You're assuming two things
by Josh K / April 1, 2012 12:00 PM PDT

1. That Tony's assumption about when he drew his gun is accurate.
2. That Zimmerman took ANY blows to the head. I've seen no physical evidence of that yet.

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and you aren't going to see that
by James Denison / April 1, 2012 1:41 PM PDT


1) you have your eyes closed
2) you can't believe your eyes if open
3) someone else saw it and you refuse to believe them

I do see the bump in the video, I do see what appears to be a nose larger than in his pictures, I can accept the witness of those who saw both the blood and the injuries.

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Took any blows??
by Tony Holmes / April 1, 2012 7:34 PM PDT

did you read pg 3 of the police report?


Keep in mind we're talking about a 6'3" 170lb physically fit 17yr old against an out of shape,pudgy 5'9" guy.If Zimmerman had his weapon already drawn,Martin would have been shot sooner than he was.

There's also a 2nd scenario circulating in the law enforcement community which is why only that partial report has been released.At this point it's only a rumor,I'd like to stress that because it may be in Zimmerman's favor.I won't believe it until I see it in the report.

It states:Zimmerman's weapon was a Kel-Tec pf9 9mm that held 7 rounds and the police recovered the gun with a full magazine and empty chamber...how do you shoot a weapon and still have a full mag and empty chamber after it's been fired??

Simple,you load a round in the chamber and refill the mag so you have a full mag and one "in the pipe" and have 8 rounds. in the gun.A fresh round should have cycled into the chamber from the mag after it was fired but didn't....how??

One thing that can cause that is another man's hand wrapped around the pistol, retarding its slide mechanism. This would indicate, as could certain gunshot residue patterns or cuts in certain places if found on Trayvon Martin's hand(s), that a struggle for a gun was taking place when the fatal shot was fired. This would clearly change the shape of the case.But it's only rumor at this point and we have to wait for the special prosecutor to go through the facts.

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RE: cuts in certain places if found on Trayvon Martin's hand
by JP Bill / April 1, 2012 8:11 PM PDT

Course no one believes the Funeral Director when he said he saw no injuries to Martin

No round in the chamber?

Jammed mag?

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Of course,that's possible too....
by Tony Holmes / April 1, 2012 10:17 PM PDT

but we should wait until the full police and coroner reports are released to get all the facts.

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by James Denison / April 2, 2012 2:48 AM PDT

That has nothing to do with chambering. It has to do with why a second shot may not have been fired due to the trigger reset being so forward that on the first "feel" of a reset it's actually not ready to fire, only after the second "feel" is it actually reset to fire the next round. The next round would still have chambered.

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I'm taking up a collection for Zimmerman
by JP Bill / April 2, 2012 5:13 AM PDT

To buy him a new extractor and spring AND a new slide so he won't have the same problem next time..

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just another reason I prefer revolver
by James Denison / April 2, 2012 6:29 AM PDT

for personal safety concealed carry.

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RE: another reason I prefer revolver
by JP Bill / April 2, 2012 7:06 AM PDT

Is that a gun in your pocket?


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Yeah James,failures such as that can have deadly............
by Tony Holmes / April 2, 2012 7:17 AM PDT

conseqeunces if you should need to get off a second shot in an emergency.

I had a failure of an opposite sort several years ago when I took my MAB P-15 pistol to the local range to fire off a few.It holds 15 in the mag and 1 in the pipe,I fully loaded it,aimed at the target and squeezed the trigger.

That pistol has what I call a 'disconnect' lever on the sear that the slide runs over every time you fire the gun.It disconnects the trigger from the sear and insures that the weapon only fires one round with each trigger pull.

Unfortunately,the disconnect lever chose that particular moment to fail,when I touched the trigger,the entire 16 rounds unloaded with one trigger pull and it sounded like a machine gun!! Scared the crap out of me but I kept it under control......lol.

When the gun was finished I noticed an eerie silence at the range,everyone on either side of me was looking in my direction with a ***???? look.The range captain runs over and asks *** was that all about? "I don't know man,something with the sear f'd up and the gun emptied but it was fun"...lol. "Put it away and don't even think about reloading it..okay"?

I took it to the French gunsmith who originally customized it for me and he machined a new custom lever for me($100) because orig parts were unavailable.

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