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General discussion

Sony's new dvd+rw cameras

Apr 6, 2005 6:15PM PDT

I'm thinking about purchasing one of Sony's latest mini dvd recordable cams. One thing I like is their ability to record to dvd+r(w) format, which I should be able to pop into my computer and edit or watch in a dvd player, even before finalizing the disc in the camera. (I think)

My concerns are that most of these new cameras don't have a firewire port, the base model doesn't even have a USB port. I shouldn't need these options if I can simply use the dvd+rw disc for editing, correct?

Also, I haven't been able to find and mini dvd+r(w) discs anywhere. Are these even available yet? You would think Sony would have them available, but they're not.

Has anyone tested these new cameras or have any opinions about Sony's dvd-recordable products?

I appreciate any help you can offer, I'm a total newbie.

Discussion is locked

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DVD (i.e. MPEG2) is not meant for editing
Apr 8, 2005 12:42PM PDT

Usually we record a lots more footages and then edit them in a PC to retain only the useful parts and add texts, transitions, and other effects. DVD (i.e. MPEG2) is not meant for editing but DV (the format used in MiniDV) is. Therefore, better to record footages in DV format and then do the necessary editing before exporting the final movie to DVD or VCD or any other format. Many people have a very wrong impression that DVD video cameras are the next generation of (mini)DV cameras which is not. DVD video cameras will not be very popular because of the very poor edititability of the footage captured.

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Mainly looking for ease of use
Apr 8, 2005 5:07PM PDT

I'm not all that concerned about being able to make lots of edits. This purchase is just for home video use.

I just like the idea of the dvd+rw recording format. No finalizing required, just eject the disc and pop it into my computer or dvd player. Plus I won't be spending a fortune on media if I can re-use the dvd+rw discs.

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Be careful
Apr 8, 2005 11:34PM PDT
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Tread carefully
Apr 9, 2005 3:31AM PDT

If you're planning on any editing whatsoever, you need a firewire connection which, as found out the expensive way, is not on the DVD cams. I just bought the Sony DVD301 and then sold it at a serious loss just to get a new DV format camera. The MPEG format used by Sony WILL result in a significant loss of picture quality with any level of serious editing using NLE software(even Sony tech support confirmed this during a conversation). It's a spectacular DVD cam for very light consumer stuff. Do you homework on this one if you plan on doing any video editing!!!

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firewire...why?
Apr 9, 2005 6:42AM PDT

As I understand it, these cams record in mpeg format, so even using firewire you would be importing mpeg-quality video, right? You'd get the exact same thing through firewire as you get from simply putting the mini-dvd into your computer, right? From what I can understand, that's why many of these sonys don't have firewire and even usb in some cases.

Plus, if my end product will be a dvd for viewing, it will end up in the same mpeg quality regardless if I have a dvd or dv cam.

Am I totally off on this? I want to make sure that I get all the positives and negatives before I buy. I understand that dv is easier to edit, but takes up much more disk space on a pc.

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Yes, you are (unfortunately)...
Apr 9, 2005 10:21AM PDT

I was in the exactly same place you were 3 months ago when I purchased the Sony DVD301 and Adobe Elements (editing software) to assist my daughter with a simple 15 min. school video project. Countless (and I'm being generous) hours later, I discovered that the video signal captured by most NLE video editing software requires the stability of a firewire connection. If you have the wherewithal to contact CNET for information, you're likely already interested in video at a level beyond that of Joe/Jane Consumer (and, yes, editing too--you will be bitten by the bug--guaranteed). USB is simply not stable enough for capturing video without quality loss. This all comes from hours with both Sony and Adobe tech support. You can take the advice of someone who learned the expensive way or find it out for yourself. I wish I had known to seek more information than that dispensed by the kid working at the electronics department of -----.

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firewire cont.
Apr 9, 2005 12:12PM PDT

Two of Sony's new generation of dvd cams have a firewire port, the dvd203 and 403. The 203 has almost the exact specs of the 301, same image res, better zoom etc. Plus the new ability to record in +rw format. It seems like a pretty good option, and cheaper than the 301.

Did you ever try editing directly from the dvd that you recorded? I know that USB is not sufficient for anything other than downloading stills. I just don't understand what the difference in quality would be using firewire vs. direct from the recorded dvd. Both would be in compressed mpeg quality already right?

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In all fairness
Apr 9, 2005 3:26PM PDT

despite what I have read on CNET about LAST YEARS DVD camcorders I need to include this link. (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t114655.html)
Read it all the way through. He bought a DVD 403 and is very happy with it. It looks like it comes down to personal prefference.

Robert

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Firewire is just to tranfer the video data (file) as it is
Apr 12, 2005 12:14PM PDT

What Firewire does is just help to tranfer/move the video data (file) from one storage media (I mean from your camera storage) to another storage media (your computer hard disc). Your USB connection does the same thing. But the capacity/transfer rate in a Firewire is much more than that in USB. Therefore, you can tranfer the same file much quicker using a Firewire than a USB connection- there is no other quality difference. However, both of these connections cannot do without the help of a software which has the potential to change your video data. Sometimes, due to some intermediate processing resulting from the direct/unconscious use of default settings in the transfering software(e.g.,resizing, format conversion, deinterlacing, reversing of fields order, compressing & re-compressing, frame blending, etc.) available in a software can alter the tranferred video data in many ways. And of course, inability of your computer system (including software) and its disc to tranfer and record the enormous video data quickly can result in what we call "dropping frames" that can badly affect the quality of the transferred video. Sometimes, the image data stored inside a camera can be different from its standard output. This "RAW" images may contain more information for professional manipulation than the "stripped" standard output.

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Appending prior post
Apr 9, 2005 12:11PM PDT

I'm going to append my previous post by letting you know from personal experience that the Sony DVD301 is a terrific piece of consumer equipment. If all you want to do is shoot video and burn it to mini DVD, be able to very conveniently search thumbnails of individual shots, and then capture it to your computer using Sony's ultra basic video software that comes with the camera--look no further. If there's a snowball's chance in heck you're going to want to do even hobby level editing, I'm suggesting you go with miniDV format.
Over and out on the issue... :o)