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General discussion

Sony's In Trouble (Again)...PS3 Pushed Back 6-12 Months....

Feb 20, 2006 12:05AM PST

...Cost to produce each unit approaching $900!!!

No one is going to pay ~$1,500 for a stupid gaming platform.

They can't agree on certain required specs for standardization.

These guys are a mess.

What's happened to Sony?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11458047/

Discussion is locked

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Been there.
Feb 20, 2006 12:27AM PST

Just one comment and then a story.

It's proper to push back the launch to next Christmas. No reason to launch off that date when you have work to do on your product.

A story. I was on a committee where we were hammering out some details on a product. Such costs do run away when the specs are not well done. In an item I red lined was a statement that "all TCP/IP protocols be supported." Since we only needed ping and one data transfer port, this requirement would add untold millions to the development and testing costs. Plus the product costs since we'd need more memory all around, bigger CPU, etc.

Sometimes it's a spec... or speck.

Bob

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Agreed, Christmas Would Have Been The Intelligent Release...
Feb 20, 2006 1:31AM PST

...Date anyway ( or a month or so before, just to build up the buzz leading up to Christmas).

You are right about a "spec" here turning into a "speck" there.

LOL

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That assumes...
Feb 20, 2006 7:39AM PST

...that the actual U.S. launch is indeed JIT for Christmas. I don't know how good Merrill Lynch is at analysing tech developments, but they did hold out the possibility of a more pessimistic caveat of an early '07 U.S. launch in their report. Sony has denied that naturally, but they also initially denied ANY slip in their launch schedules at all, both for the U.S. and Japan markets, only to have some company reps come back and quietly confirm that the rumours of sliding launch dates are indeed ok if they happen, as if they're preparing the world for the inevitable.

From what I've been reading, it sounds like there's problems with the BluRay consortium in finalizing some of the standards involved, which of course is one of the key selling points of the PS3. The Merrill report cites possible production problems with the nVidia graphics set as well, and issues with the new type of RAM that the PS3 uses. Given the technology it packs, I've tended to believe that the PS3 would sell for around $600 around launch given its capabilities and intent on being the all-in-one media center of a household that goes well beyond just being a gaming console; it just seems like a nice number to me, without being too scary.

But IF Merrill is correct in their analysis, can Sony really afford to lose $300 a unit at the time of launch, even if everyone KNOWS that they're depending upon making it up on the software? Both Sony and MSFT have lost money on their prior respective PS2 and Xbox/Xbox 360 consoles, but $300 worth of hurt?

If nothing else, it makes a lot of Sony investors VERY unhappy.

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Believe Me, It'll Be A Lot More Than $300/Unit....
Feb 20, 2006 11:42AM PST

...The stores that sell this thing still expect to make a profit so the presumed $600 selling price has to have a nice cut for them before Sony gets whatever's left over. And Sony has to pay to ship these from Japan and ship them to the big box stores so I'd suggest that from a $600 sale price per unit, Sony would be lucky to see $400 net. that would mean a unit sales loss of ~$500.

Ouch!!!!

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Point taken.
Feb 20, 2006 5:03PM PST

I'd make a lousy retailer. Or wholesaler, for that matter.

Even if Sony has a 75% margin for a $600 list price, they'll be set to lose $450 per machine. Ouch...that's a LOT of different games they'd have to sell before ever breaking even.

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The PS3 is Fine
Feb 20, 2006 5:28AM PST

First off sony is fine the 360 is stagnating due to no releases in the entire month of January. Also XBOX loses about $125 on each unit they sell. Sony will lose money for the first 2 fiscal years until; A)The price of the "cell" goes down B)The amount of software with each system surpasses 4 games.
If you know anything about the Playstation history(or any game platform) the lose money. The money is in the software.

Let it be noted that the highest estimated price is 700, which it will not be...where did psych doc get 1500???

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Generally About A 100% Markup Between Cost And Retail...
Feb 20, 2006 5:52AM PST

...Unless you want to lose money.

The manufacturer has to make a profit (Sony), it costs to ship the stuff and the end seller has to make a profit.

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Top Price $700...Wrong....
Feb 20, 2006 5:55AM PST

..The linked article gives an estimated top number of $900.

>>>Sony?s shares fell as much as 4.4 percent on Monday after Merrill Lynch said in a research note last week that the PS3?s launch might be delayed by six to 12 months and the cost of production could initially approach $900 per unit.<<<

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11458047/

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Top Price $700...Wrong....
Feb 20, 2006 5:55AM PST

..The linked article gives an estimated top number of $900.

>>>Sony?s shares fell as much as 4.4 percent on Monday after Merrill Lynch said in a research note last week that the PS3?s launch might be delayed by six to 12 months and the cost of production could initially approach $900 per unit.<<<

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11458047/

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correct but they do not shoot for a profit margin
Feb 20, 2006 6:58AM PST

It very well could be 900 dollars a system, we are not going to pay that though. Much the same way the 360 costs 525 a system. There is a counteract measure to keep the hardware affordable

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RE PS3
Feb 20, 2006 9:11AM PST

First off I did read the report. At the very top of the report all the figures are ESTIMATES. Second the people that wrote that report can't add. The total of all the components is $800. Third In order to get Blu-Ray out the door Sony is willing to take a hit on the hardware. Xbox, Xbox 360, and even PS2 all cost more to make than they sell for. These same analysts predicted that the PSP was going to be $400-500. It sold for $250. I'll wait for the official announcement instead of speculation.

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The missing $100
Feb 23, 2006 9:01AM PST

I didn't read the report, but the extra $100 might be labor, assembly, testing, chassis, power cords, etc. There's a lot of overhead to stuff like this.

Speleo.

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RE PS3
Feb 20, 2006 9:11AM PST

First off I did read the report. At the very top of the report all the figures are ESTIMATES. Second the people that wrote that report can't add. The total of all the components is $800. Third In order to get Blu-Ray out the door Sony is willing to take a hit on the hardware. Xbox, Xbox 360, and even PS2 all cost more to make than they sell for. These same analysts predicted that the PSP was going to be $400-500. It sold for $250. I'll wait for the official announcement instead of speculation.

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Can't agree on specs???
Feb 23, 2006 9:07AM PST

If that in any way translates into "can't agree on hardware components" then I'm betting Sony will have to choose between delays or shortages. Mass quantities of hardware (disks, chips, whatever) isn't generally just available off the shelf. The stuff needs to be ordered, built, delivered, assembled and tested before any PS3's will go out the door.

Speleo.