Sony LCD or Pioneer Plasma?

in some ways the panasonic TH-42PZ800u is better then the pioneer, but pioneer is still king of black level.

I with you, I would have a very hard time picking between the two models, but I would have to go with the cheaper one this time.

good luck
gabe

Thanks Gabe for yours point, yes you right is hard to choose. Elite is better calibrated of the box has filter called PRO and two years of warranty, well I have till Sat to make decision still thinking?

First and foremost, to ascertain accurate colors, black levels must be deep. My first question would be wether you plan on having the set calibrated. If so, my choice would be with the Pioneer, as its color accuracy and contrast are unmatched when ISF calibrated.

This is not to say that the Panasonic and Samsung models are not good, rather it is to say that the Pioneer PDP-4280HD is better. The Samsungs have improved greatly in the department of brightness and overall contrast, but gray-scaling is still far off from what a plasma should be. The Panasonics have always been excellent plasmas, a "poor-man's Pioneer", as many call it. They are right in this statement. The Pioneers will always outdo the Panasonics with this in mind.

I have seen all sets in question up close, before and after calibration. I can faithfully say the Pioneers attributes are far more favorable than the others, and, what little downfalls it has are negligible compared to the others.

The ELITE has few differences that mark itself different. The front gold lettering, ISF modes (easier for the installer to calibrate), PRO mode (useless if calibrated), a black, backlit remote (handy) as opposed to the silver glow-in-the-dark remote, and Pioneer's two year warranty (as opposed to one for the 4280). At retail pricing, I hardly find this worth an extra $700 or so. But in this market and considering the set's age, you may be able to find it for a significantly lower price. You ask me, I would go for the 4280 unless the ELITE is within around $200 of the 4280's pricepoint.

I implore you to see the reason why I like Pioneers so much by investing in one.

corppsych:

Since the PDP-5080HD, PDP-5010FD and PDP-5020FD are not utilizing the same panels or GUI settings, there are different settings for the 5010 and 5020. As far as I remember, you have a 5010, right? I am working furiously on settings for the Pioneer PDP-5020FD and hope to have them soon. I will post them as soon as I have them.

The settings for the 5010 are prepped and go as follows:
Please note these are the break-in settings, to set the TV for after the first 500hrs, simply utilize those in perenthesis (e.g. contrast 30 (40)).

Menu - Picture
A/V Selection: Movie
Contrast: 30 (40)
Brightness: 0
Color: -10 (-2)
Sharpness: -13


Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Film mode: Advance, Text Optomization: on

Picture Detail: DRE Picture: Off (High), Black Level: Off (On), ACL: Off (On), Enhancer Mode: 1, Gamma: 1 (3)

Color Detail: Color Temp: Low, CTI: Off (On)

Noise Managment: 3DNR: High, Field NR: Off


Menu - Power Control
Power Saving: Mode 2 (Off)
No Signal Off: Enable
No Operation Off: Enable


Menu - Option
Auto-Size: Wide
Orbiter: Mode 2
Room Light Sensor: On

NS:
thanks; and yes, I have the 5010, and aside from the buzz (which has diminished significantly but not disappeared), I love it.

Have a good weekend.

C

PS: Is there a simple way to access the number of hours the set has been on via any of the menus?

Unfortunately, the only way to access the set's biological time clock is via the service menus. It is something that can be found out (how to get into the service menus), however I advise strongly against doing so without professional assistance. TV menus are not like they used to be, and pressing the wrong button at the wrong time can lead to certain death (of the television, of course).

Sorry I could not have been more help,
-N.

NS, I read a post by someone in another forum. He said he contacted Pioneer and the rep told him that the 5020 set was calibrated before leaving the factory. Not sure about this at all, but I do know you have mentioned the lack of finer adjustments on this model vs the 5080. Have you heard anything like this before? I anxiously await your settings for the 5020.

Thanks,

Because different rooms have different lighting envionments, there is no one way to calibrate a TV from the factory. The color theme of the room the set is in makes a difference. How could Pioneer forsee where their sets will ultimately go?

Pioneer des have an "Optimum" Mode, which utilizes the light sensor to adjust the brightness and contrast of the set, however it hs no effect on the white balance of the set, much more important for accurate colors and greyscaling.

Since one now has to go into the user menu for such adjustments as white balance and greyscale adjustments, I am creating user menu-settings tat will help make up for the fact that the exact fine-tune adjustments aren't available.

It shouldn't take me much longer to develop exact settings, mind you, te settings will be for a pitch black room with white walls.

Coming Soon

-N.

I recently got the 6020. I absoluty love the set but the loss of picture setings was a big bumer for me. But still, I would take the 6020 over all others. (with exception of pro-151fd).

After having the 6020 for about 2 months, I decided that he loss of settings was just too much of a bummer for me so I sold me 6020.

I decided that the only way I will be happy is to get the Pro-151FD.
So I did.
And MY GOD!!!
This thing is unlike any set I hae encountered.
Although some set excel in one area (color, black, contrast,etc), I have never encountered a set that is basically great at everything like the elite 9G is.
Blacks on this baby are astounding. Lowest Idle lum. I have ever heard of on a flat panel (0.001fl - 0.002fl).

what I need are some instructions on how to engage the ISF modes (ISF Day, ISF night, ISF-Auto). Although Pure mode rocks, many are having better results with the ISF modes.

got any instrucions?

An ISF calibartion will always acheive better results than PURE mode provided the set has been calibrated correctly.

Although I typically recommend a professional be hired to do the calibration, it is simple to DIY, so long as you can afford the $15K or so in equipment. If not, stick with a professional. A professional will be likely toturn off all processing functions (like Black level enhancers, etc.). The pro does this because generally, processing modes add noise to the picture. With the Pioneers, I might consider otherwise, just because they do such a great job (what you might want to do is fool around with the set in your environment for a few hours to see what kind of effects the different processing modes have on the picture.

When the pro arrives to calibrate, let him know if there are any modes that you would like him/her to utilize when performing the calibration. This will give the truest colors possible with the processing modes.

As the pro calibrates the set, he/she will "unlock" the ISF day/night/auto modes for use. These modes will have to be calibrated for each input you are using on the set and will have to be recalibrated should you switch component configuration or move the set to a different lighting environment.

Best Buy charges about $300 to get it done. Most installers should be around there price-wise.

Good luck.

-N.

NS, based on Chad's experience and what I have read should I just avoid the 5020 and try to get one of the signature or elite sets that allow for a full range of adjustments?

If you want to be able to really dial in a picture then elite is the way to go.

IMO most people will be just fine with the 6020. Its the enthusiasts that need the elite.

The elite has many more picture settings. And in y opinion is the best TV out there.
The 6020 is damn close.

For regular movie watching the 6020 can't be beat. Unless it is put up against a calibrated elite. And even then its a close comparison the the average viewer.

If you don't plan on calibrating then my advise is to stay with the 6020.

One thing is for sure, If you want an elite for better blacks, you won't get them.
The 6020's blacks cannot be beat. The elite is the same.

The thing you will get with the elite is more accurate color. But that is not to say that the 6020's color is not pretty accurate. The samsung has better color accuracy than the 6020 but the 6020 still looks better because the colors look more saturated and deep because of its great black levels. Sometimes more accurate does not mean it looks better to your eyes.
The elite on the other hand can produce super accurate colors that are also deep and saturated. Giving it the perfect combination.

It depends on what kind of person you are really to choose between the elite and 6020.

If you want the best color accuracy possible and like to have a number of settings at your disposal, then the elite is for you.

If you are the type of person who wants great color depth, black levels, contrast, not the best color accuracy (but very good),etc. and doesn't place alot of importance in being able to tweak the set to perfection, then the non-elite is for you.

If you think that you may be one of those who doesn't really want to dial in the picture and will use optimum mode most of the time, Then go with the non-elite.
IMO, If you are going to use optimum mode as your main setting then you do not need the elite because the non-elite also has it (just without the color sensor).

Here are the settings the elites (111/151) have:

1. Brighness
2. Sharpness
3. Color
4. Contrast
5. A/V selection
6. Pure cinema selection
7. Intelligent mode (OFF / MODE1 / MODE2)
8. DRE (Off / HIGH / MID / LOW)
9. BLK LVL (ON / OFF)
10. ACL (ON / OFF)
11. Enhanser mode (1 / 2 / 3)
12. GAMMA selection (1 / 2 / 3)
13. Color temp (Manual/LOW/Mid-LOW/Mid/Mid-High/High)
14. CTI (ON / OFF)
15. Color management (R / Y / G / C / B / M)
16. Color space (1 / 2)
17. 3DNR (OFF / HIGH / MID / LOW)
18. Field NR (OFF / HIGH / MID / LOW)
19. Block NR (ON / OFF)
20. Mosquito NR (OFF / ON)


Here are the settings the non-elites (5020/6020) have:

1. Brighness
2. Sharpness
3. Color
4. Contrast
5. A/V selection
6. Pure cinema selection


So the big question is does the 6020 have enough settings for you?

Either way you go you will have an awesome set.
The 6020 is beyond words, but the elite breaks all boudaries IMO.


So it is really up to you if the price difference is worth it. In my case it was.

-Hope this helps you. Let me knowif you want more info!

-Chadmak09

My main concern has always been with the possible reflection issues of the pioneer. I also like to tinker with the color temperatures, but I am afraid I have failed every color test I took, so I would not notice a difference. Thanks for the help. I see you mentioned the Samsung sets. Yes, I like the TOC, perhaps it is better than the Sony XBR sets, but, again, reflection is an issue. I realize that Sony uses a Matt screen and Samsung utilizes a different type of screen that gives benefit to the pictures in most conditions. Really what bothers me most about my current CRT is the problem with reflective light and I am not able to change those conditions enough to reduce the light source. I came down to a decision between the 5020 and the Samsung 52 inch TOC set. Difficult to say the least. I do understand that the Pioneer has quite a good coating against reflective light sources, probably better than the Samsung.

yes, the sammy is heavily reflective! way more than the pioneer.

you could go matte screen LCD but then it brings more issues like grey blacks, color funky (lol), etc.etc.etc.
A matte LCD acts like a difuser and absorbs the light like a sponge. NS goes into detail about this earlier in the thread.

Magick1:

Do you want pictorial perfection, or near perfetion?

I myself want perfection. It is your choice.

-N.

Actually, NS. I would most definitely prefer perfection with the Pioneer. The 5020 is more in my price range than the Signature and Elite models, but seems to lack the ability for adjustments that the Elites and Signatures have.

My main concern is simply the loss of that ability with the 5020s. I also was hoping that the Pioneer did well in very high external light areas, such as direct sunlight on the screen.

Thanks,

Chad, I've watched you switch from the Sony XBR to the Pioneer, go from the 6020, I believe to the 151FD and become a big fan of the Kuro. I've watched the conversations between you and NS and definitely more than appreciate the help you have both given, the advice and the details.

The 5020 is about all I can afford and if the buzzing problems are gone, if works well in a bright room environment, then it is the set I have decided on. I will probably miss the ability to control color temperature, but for my part, not sure that I would notice it that much, at least according to NS.

So, to both of you thanks for the help.

thats what i thought you would say.
I will probably have accucal (UMR from AVS hopefully) come calibrate. Or D-Nice from AVS said he might be able to come over and do it sometime in the future.
From what I have heard, in order to engage the ISF modes you have to use ControlCAL via RS232, but that may have changed.
I guess until then I'll just stick with calibrating by the DVE test patterns. That should do me for a while.