Sony LCD or Pioneer Plasma?

NS,
I went and got a pdp-5010fd about 3 months ago.
I would have to say that this Thing blows any and all LCDs out of the water (including the new samsung 650).
From having this plasma, I now notice motion blurr, smearing, ghosting, flashlighting, backlight bleedthru, and crappy blacks on LCD's more than I ever have.
Going from a XBR4 to a 5010 and back to a XBR4 made me see alot.
I took the 5010 back because I am going to be getting a PRO-151FD as soon as it is availible. I have already pre-ordered.

Anyway, I thought you would get a kick out of the fact that I have jumped off of the LCD bandwagon and am now a Plasma man.
You may begin the "I told you so" speech. LOL
Also,
i apologize for some of the heated arguements.

Consider yourself forgiven. I am not one to make "I told you so" speeches. But in the future, trust me as a credible source of knowledge when it comes to HT electronics, I know my stuff.

about plasmas (at least the 720p models). And that is the way each pixels has a visible black frame surrounding it and which makes them stand out like the scan lines on a tube TV. LCD's pixels merge together into a seamless whole which I find much more pleasing.

Yes the black levels are often better on a plasma but that discreet pixel thing drives me bonkers. It makes the screen look grainy (like you are looking at it through a screen door as you said).

I suppose, though it is a catch 22 between the screen door look and lack of clarity during motion blur. This often maked LCD's appear very soft during motion.

BTW, the Pioneers come with a Deatil enhancer mode that can be turned up or down to lessen the effect.

This instance is purely subjective, however just as the screen door look drives you bonkers, the motion blur thing drives me bonkers.

Wanna wait for 4K-resolution (8MP) plasmas and OLED's?

rear projection TV's? I only use the term because that is what it looks like to me on the plasmas I've had the opportunity to play around with. But I have never heard anybody talk about it as a downside to 720p Plasmas.

The 50 and 60 inch 1080p plasmas don't seem to suffer so much from this problem so if I ever get a 60 inch to replace my 46 inch Sony I'll definitely look at those. Right now they are still kind of high for my budget and the Sony LCD does a great job.

Motion blur is not really all that apparent to me as I don't watch sports or many action movies. What really kills me is macro-blocking on overly compressed "HD" content. Of course this has nothing to do with the TV and everything to do with the quality of the source.

If one gets close enough to either set, the pixel frames are visible. More so is this true when looking from a 720 set to a 1080 set, which is why 720's have proximity limitations (for PQ and clarity purposes). The reason this is not mentioned very often about plasmas or any modern technology is because it is miniscule at its worst, meaning most will not notice.

The 60" plasmas, even at 1080p, are more in the way of this effect than 50" plasmas at 1080p. As 50" is the largest size available without visible image compromise, I would recommend a 50" 1080p set, not 60", at least until they debut with 4K resolution (8MP). What I mean to say is that there is a visible difference in resolution clarity between a 50" and 60" 1080p set. This is simply because of the increase in size. at 60" 1080p, you must sit at least 10-ft from the set to see the clarity of a 50" at 6-ft. I suppose it depends on the size of your room, but to me, 50" remains the enthusiast's size.

My question to your third line would be do you watch or play anything that involves motion whatsoever? Yes? Then you will benefit big time with plasma in that regard. And if you don't like the digitalization, make sure your cable splitters are of adequate bandwidth (2Ghz or better). You can loose a lot right there. Make sure you are doing all you can to keep the quality of your source high.

Hey Ns,
You should come over to the AVS forum sometime. Its great over there. They have offical 9G threads that could use some of your comments and guidance. I rarely come to CNET anymore even though I like Cnet.

I own the PDP-5080. I followed your recommendations for initial settings for the break-in period. I realize that the best way to get the optimum picture is to have it professionally calibrated, but money is tight right now. Are you able to give some general recommendations for the settings I should use after break-in period? Thank you.

Frank

Frank -
I have recently revised my suggestions for proper setup of the Pioneer PDP-5080HD. The Settings now go as follows:

Please note that anything in perenthesis indicates changing the set to that function after 500hrs break-in time on the original settings (those without perenthesis).

Menu - Picture:
A/V Selection: Movie
Contrast: 30
Brightness: 0
Color: -10
Sharpness: -13

Pro Adjust

Pure Cinema: Film Mode: Advance, Text Optomization: On

Picture Detail: DRE Picture: Off (HIGH), Black Level: Off (ON), ACL: Off (ON), Enhancer Mode: 1, Gamma: 1(3)

Color Detail: Color Temp: Low, CTI: Off (ON)

Noise Reduction: 3DNR: High, Field NR: Off


Menu - Power Control
Power Saving: Mode 2 (OFF)
No Signal Off: Enable
No Operation Off: Enable


Menu - Option
Auto Size: Wide
Orbiter: On
Room Light Sensor: On

I hope this helps in creating a gorgeous picture for your set. You might find the color setting a bit low for SD cable, VHS, and other Analog programme material, so I would recommend pushing the color back to "0" in that scenario, however the above settings are optimal for 720p HD, and 1080p HD.

Best of Luck,

-N.

NS, what do you think of the 5020 set? Prices lowered for it today and it looks like an exceptional set.

Thanks, NS, for the information. I altered my TV's settings as you suggested. The picture looks very good. 10 feet away, HD is superb!

Frank

Frank, Anytime you need anything, just say so, I will be more than happy to help.

Magick1: The PDP-5020FD is a superb set. As far as I have seen, colour is superb and black levels are as claimed. I love the new user interface except for the fact that it gives you no flexibility with noise reduction, it is fixed to whatever A/V mode it is set to.

I find the 3DNR setting to work best on the Pioneers, the Field NR, not so much. This concerns me because I feel that I might not be seeing the best picture possible, especially for SD content, which, with incorrect NR settings, can lead to severe blotchiness and a soft appearence.

Overall, the 5020 is a great buy, even for the original $4,000 list price. The color behaviour is more like the 5010 than the 5080, though, so watch out for new settings as I scramble to post them.

some paragraph type spacing will improve ease of reading.

See, I created a line of separation by the white space. Please don't feel I'm really jumping on you. I like your info, just suggesting it be made more easily read. (I have old eyes.)

Thank

You

For

The

Advice. I will take this into account before making some of my longer points.

everyone says contrast ratio is the most important thing for picture quality, it gives you better black level, gray scale and color depth.

here is a photo that might help, it shows a sony XBR4 vs a Pioneer half way down the page.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/spec-wars/contrast-ratio-shoot+out-everyone-loses-259495.php

Just wanted to rectify...i said that Pionneer also have 10 bits pannels...witch is a mistake from my npart..i meant that Pionner also only have 8 bits pannels

Are you talking about those pictures on witch they deleberatly put a spot ligth on the bravia only to make it look worst then the others???

that's funny meandmybigideas.

I am willing to bet though that if they were to do that test in a totally dark room, the two LCDs would still look considerably brighter. They are LCDs. It's not really a fair comparison. Most LCDs wouldn't do favorably in that kind of test to average plasmas, let alone a Pioneer. I am not really sure why they bothered with that article. Is their anyone that truly thinks that an LCD can compare blacks with a plasma. That's not even news lol.

Totally agree with you Stunt...Contrast ratio is certainly not the only specification someone should look before buying a television.Unless you like low black level...then buy a plasma...you'll be more then happy...Salut a toutes la gang du march

(the most important aspect of picture quality is contrast ratio, the second most important is color saturation, and the third is color accuracy. Resolution comes in a distant fourth, despite being easily the most-talked-about HDTV spec today.)

contrast ratio is king although most companys dont tell the truth about there contrast ratio, without a good contrast ratio and/or black level there is lack of color saturation, and color accuracy with very little depth to the image.

I Play the heck out of my PS3 with the SONY-XBR4. In fact, Its the best gaming experience I have ever had. When I put the TV in Game mode I don't see any speed or responce issues. And most new PS3 games are 1080p so you will need a 1080p TV to see all the details needed especially with shooter games (Call of duty4 my new faviorite)when you have to shoot people who are very far away, that extra detail comes in handy. Looks blurry on the Pioneer.

IT COMES WITH A BEAUTY OF A PRICE!!! Currently selling for more than $5,000.00 to $6,500.00.

This is not an HDTV for the masses, or within the reach of everyman.

Riverledge.

Pioneer 60" is definitely not for everyone, but in a 50" comparision of the 81 series, XBR4, and 5080HD, the 5080 has the lowest price.

Hi NS--
Okay, now that I've decided on the Pioneer plasma, the big question is:
Given that I'll only buy from an authorized dealer, which is better, buying from an online retailer (lower cost) or a local dealer (taxes, typically higher cost). The concern I have buying from an online dealer is support after delivery. Let's assume it comes undamaged, but 2 weeks into the purchase, the tv malfunctions. Most online guys tell me it will then go to the mfg warranty and they'll call for a repair at my home. The local stores (e.g., BestBuy) say they'll replace a defective unit within such a short time-frame (I'd have to pick it up or pay for delivery).
You must have a broad swath of experience on this, so please help. BTW, thanks for your previous help-- and it will be a PDP model.

Thanks.

I have personally made purchases either directly through the manufacturer (distribution centre, the "middle" man) or at a local retailer (e.g. Best Buy, Magnolia HT, etc.). I have never had to deal with a defective unit from Pioneer, so I cannot comment on how the process works either way, but when I purchased from Best Buy (for the PDP-5080HD), I did get the service plan because it was in home and covered more than the manufacturer did. That being said, I do not necesserelly feel that the 4yr was necessary, but I didn't want to take any chances (I am a very cautious person).

I would personally buy from whomever gives the best support for the product (before/during.outside the manufacturer's warranty) to assure your investment has been a good one. The last thing I would want to do is take a near-100-pound television back to the store/supplier I picked it up/had it delivered from.

Lcd's doesnt even come close!!!!...Man take another year and a half do to your research...Come back then

I have been convinced that I will get the 46xbr4 (can't fit or afford a 52") for the last 4 months and was getting a 42px75u in my bedroom (don't watch too much and dark most of the time and an upgrade from a 13" CRT).

I then saw a 5084 sammy plasma in a high-end video store vs. a sharp 1080p LCD and the difference was tremendous (Sammys colors, blackness, and sharpness blew it away). Now I think that I might want a higher end plasma in my living room.

I can get the 1150HD (can't find the 5080HD at any authorized dealers), the 46XBR4, and the 50pz750u (in the gizmodo article mentioned here, the pz700u was blacker than the 5080HD) for about the same price. I would love the 5010FD, but it is about $800 more than these others. I currently use it in a brightly lit room (my CRT has some glare) for kids shows, sports, and DVD movies (we will get HD cable with the TV purchase). I forsee in the next year or two getting a PS3 for movies and games. We sit about 12-14' away, but my kids sit about 6-8' away and when the PS3 comes, I will probably be 6-8' away. I want these TVs to last 5-10years, so I want the best that I could afford that will be incredible for that timeframe.

I am now leaning towards the Elite 1150HD, but not having the 1080p for the next 10 years concerns me (maybe we move and have a different layout and sit closer). Would the 50PZ750U be the best choice (5084 from Sammy), since price is the same and it is 1080p and the Panny looked blacker in the pictures than the 5080HD?

Confused as always,

Steven

The Panasonic TH-PZ700 and TH-PZ750 series, as excellent of televisions as they are, are nowhere near the depth in blackness of the KUROs. This is not to say I wouldn't recommend a Panasonic plasma (because I would), but it is to say that I would recommend a Pioneer plasma over Panasonic for reasons of performance.

I would not recommend the Samsung FPT84 series, as they are inferior to the Panasonic when it comes to color accuracy, black level depth, and noise removal abilities.

Large Sharp AQUOS 1080p LCD sets have dissappointed me (32" and under are fantastic, but there is much to be desired in their larger sets.).

If one had to go with Panasonic, I would recommend going with the TH-50PZ700U, not the 750-series. The 750-series has what Panasonic calls an "anti-reflective" chemical coating on the screen. I disagree. Not only can I see just as many reflections in the 750-series as the 700 series, but contrast is significantly lowered in the 750, especially in highly-lit environments! Furthermore, the 750-series seem to give off a silkscreen effect (glittery screen), which is a large distortion of the image. The 700-series will not dissappoint.

I will say this time and again, the 1080p thing is not a huge thing (certainly not a deal-breaker) for most applications of large-screen televisions. So long as a television can ACCEPT a 1080p/24/30/60 signal, then it is golden. I would recommend concentrating on more important things (like contrast, black level depth, color accuracy, SD performance...).

The Pioneer KURO televisions outeperform the Panasonic TH-PZ700/750-series televisions in many key areas. The most significant factor is SD performance, as SD broadcasts are going nowhere fast (and DVD's are SD as well). The Pioneer makes SD look like HD when sitting next to a Panasonic displaying SD. The ASIC video processor is rather good at performing basic functions to make the picture look more acceptable (nowhere near perfect, but what television is?).

ANY flat panel display will be less reflective than a CRT. All of the major name-branded flat panel displays have some measure of protection against glare. This being said, not all flat panels are created equal. I have mentioned above about the Panasonic technologies, lets go over the Pioneer's. The KURO Pioneers utilize a screen filtration technology. This is a non-chemical method designed to filter out reflective glare, and is measured as a percentage of the light they filter out. For example, Pioneer KURO displays are capable of filtering 80% reflective glare off the screen. Pioneer combined the screen fltering technology with a chemical coating on the screen, which apparently filters more reflective glare away from the screen. The nice thing about the chemical coating on the Pioneer displays is that there is no silkscreen effect that plagues the Panasonic 750-series.

At 50", 5.5ft is the resoltuion threshold for 1080p. So, if one is sitting 6-8ft away from their 50" screen, they will not be able to discern 1080p from 720p. This, of course, would only be magnified at a greater distance. Closer than 6ft makes for an uncomfertable viewing experience.

The life expectancy on a new Panasonic or Pioneer television is 100,000 hrs. If you view your set 7hrs a day, 365/6 days a year, then your set will last 39.54 years. Of course there are measures that need be taken to assure these results, but it would be the same for any other flat panel set (power conditioner, UPS, groundloop isolation circuit, 500hr break-in and ISFccc color calibration after 500hr break-in).

The ELITE 1150HD is an excellent choice for all of the above. You would be getting one of the best performances money can currently buy. This being said, the Generation9 Pioneer plasmas do arrive this summer, with an 80% increase in contrast (80% deeper blacks). They will be exclusive 1080p as well. Of course, this will mean higher pricing, but who knows? I will in May. I can understand if you can't wait that long, which is why I encourage that you get the 1150HD, but it's up to you. Good luck.

-N.