General discussion

Something has been

bothering me for a few days now and would like some discussion about it without the sarcasm, insults, derogatory remarks that normally comes into play about this subject.

When BO was in Jordan a few days ago, there were comments made by the leader of that country about the Syrian war going on. One of those comments was how, because of all of the refugees pouring into his country (as well as a few other countries like Turkey giving them safe-haven), Jordan's economy was being 'devastated'.

If a few HUNDRED THOUSAND people can devastate Jordon, why is our own politicians here can't equate that to the MILLIONS of illegals that have poured into OUR country without devastating OUR economy? I realize that Jordan and Turkey et al opened their borders in a humanitarian way to help these people, but they are already becoming a drain on the economy there after only two years of battle, and the hope is that sometime soon those people will be able to return HOME........OUR country has been draining for quite a long time and the attitude here is that we need to not only allow them to stay permanently but make it so easy for them to stay that they have no DESIRE to go back home.....EVER.

Please explain to me how we can have a government that is perfectly willing to cut out WH tours because WE can't afford to keep them going, but can without a backward glance at our own country fork over millions of dollars to Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan, et al. I fully comprehend humanitarian aid, but don't you think our own country is in so much trouble financially, that financial aid has to start with US first, especially when our own leader has no problem with stopping educational benefits to the very military that HE commands and those men and women are protecting HIM.........he rants about how we need to 'invest' in education, and then pulls that very rug out from under those who have EARNED it through hard work and sacrifice.....and turns around and gives that money countries who don't even like us.

Give me some feedback that actually makes sense of this............

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Don't forget...

Many of those illegals are working or at least get what they can. But, what I always refer back to, go after the employers harder and you won't see where they allow themselves to be fined or worse because of them employing illegals. Regardless, of the paperwork checked, they have a good clue what's going on here. Whatever services illegals provide it seems alot gets done where it seems no one else wants to do it or costs are reined in. Ask a contractor that builds homes would holler if he couldn't have them illegals working all sorts of jobs. It's not the small contractor either, large tract sub-division builds suck-up all around. Meatpackers advertise in Mexico for workers, so there you have it.

As for giving money to countries that may not like us, it all about "greasing the wheel". Having an open channel in order to address concerns. Many times it doesn't make sense but there's always a political reason if for the lack of anything else. -----Willy Happy

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and some of them

are squatting in homes and stripping out copper and other possible items they can sell from vacant homes, causing even worse blight in some areas.

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the point is debateable

however there is a huge difference in refugees flooding into tent camps with nothing and illegals that come here and work illegally, even if they do undermine legitimate workers by working for less than minimum wage (whether you approve of it or not) and working and living in conditions legal workers won't.

Most breaking into the US isn't because of all the government help they expect, regardless of some tales, regardless of some such illegal activities. They come because they believe they can make money here they can't at home or because home in some cases is so frightful with the drug gangs they'll take a chance on anything.

Now how much strain it actually is on Jordon? I don't know enough about Jordon and it's assests, but I'm under the impression they're that well off, comparitively.

There is enough money in the neighborhood of countries to help, but apparently those sources won't.

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Muslim jihad on poverty?

LOL, still waiting for that one.

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(NT) I doubt you are, can't wait for what you don't believe
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Briefly, the refugees from Syria are entirely dependent

upon the Jordanian government for housing, food, and everything else. Illegals in the US on the other hand try to stay away from contact with any agency likely to tip off the government for fear of the INS showing up and deporting them, so they exist on the margins of the economy. They aren't sucking money out of the economy, unless they're sending it home, and even then it just isn't that much compared to the myriad other demands on the government.

Also, what are the proportions relatively of the refugee problem in Jordan compared to the Jordanian economy when compared with the "drain" on the American economy of illegals? I have not the slightest idea of an answer to that question, nor I'd bet does anyone else. I think Jordan was just making a play for US largesse, except that the US doesn't have any largesse left.


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very good post

well thought and presented.

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I agree with James

regarding your response to this......however, I do have a few things I would like to point out where I believe you're incorrect.

Illegals are encouraged by our country (both past and present) to apply for government (state and local mostly) aid. Schooling (including college), foodstamps, medical (using emergency rooms for instance), etc. Most will pay state and local sales taxes, via purchases, but hardly any of them actually pay state, local, and federal income taxes because most are paid 'under the table' in cash and get no taxes taken from pay checks. This is usually done legally because many employers are allowed to use 'temporary' or 'daily' type workers and pay with a check made out to cash (I've personally seen it done during my working career) and can write it off as a legal expenditure. There are also 'day labor' companies who used to use them regularly and until recently weren't required to ask for identification for their records.....people would just line up, sign up for various jobs they might be qualified for, be sent out on a daily basis for as long as an employer might need them for, and come back and do it all over again.......these people would be paid by the 'temp' agency with no record keeping regarding checking social security numbers given. Things may be somewhat different now regarding record keeping and verifying, but it's still nowhere near the level it should be.

As for fear of the INS........well, that's just a massive joke. BO just a few months ago made a new EO ordering that illegals between age 16 and 35, if even stopped for a traffic ticket, only have to say they are within that age bracket and they are left alone to carry on and let go with only the ticket and no further checking for their status. If Homeland Security can release felons back into society and use sequestration as an excuse for it, do you really believe 'regular' illegals are worried anymore about being deported?

There is already a new ad on tv in California by illegals now claiming that because they are here in the USA, they are also entitled to the new, 'free' healthcare offered by BO because they see themselves as 'equal' under the law. Puhhhllleeeeze.........I use the word 'free' because the way the new healthcare law is written anybody under the poverty level will be subsidized with money to pay for their plan. Free to the so much when actual taxpayers are footing that bill.

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Yes, but that's our govt's fault

And in doing so they continue to perpetuate the problem and further encourage the illegal immigration. It's like bringing donuts into the office to share with everyone, soon everyone will be getting themselves one. What I want is for OUR govt to serve US and not THEM since we are the CITIZENS, the children of CITIZENS, the grandchildren of CITIZENS who built this country. Instead the govt is undermining it's own citizens by encouraging this illegal immigration.

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In a nutshell, I think we're stuck with a problem that has

no neat and clean way out. It's like when you let a hungry stray cat into the house, feed and care for it, and it adopts you. You didn't know it was pregnant and had friends. It's actually been a good companion for your children so, when you decide it was a mistake and want to kick it out, you get so much flack that you can't find a win-win anywhere. Your answer becomes to procrastinate on any action. In the meantime, your house fills with more cats and there's no way to tell which ones are doing harm and which ones are not. All you do know is that the problem is occupying more of your time and creating more discord among both the original inhabitants and the cats who were born in your house. Your own family is being torn apart and, looking back wishing you'd enforced the house rules earlier, doesn't help.

Please don't take this analogy as a comparison of peoples.

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not a bad comparison though

Even without the kids, once you feed an animal enough times that it comes to depend on you, there is a certain feeling of obligation.

I'm a bit too soft a touch for animals, and my wife was too. I now have an outdoor cat in addition to the indoor ones we got to keep my wife company. Granted, sometimes the outdoor cat disappears, normally for no more than a day, but I always felt guilty when we left for a few days and no one was here to feed her at least once a day.

Now people are suppose to have reasoning that animals don't, and understanding they don't. Isn't part of the problem that well intentioned help sometimes create that obligaion, and expectation of more? People shouldn't react like that, but it seems to happen.

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