Some people have strange ideas about Jesus.

ALL bold AND underlined words are YOUR words.

And I haven't got a clue about why YOU decided to jump into it at this point

WHY?...YOU'RE ASKING WHY?

Do you want a hint?

And that is NOT what you said, dr..........you said people like you and me JOINED them.

I'm done with your nonsense......go talk to JP.....perhaps you'll both make sense to each other.

Are you still "clueless"?

Respond to this post if you are still clueless...IF I have enlightened you and you are no longer "clueless".... You're Welcome...

I'm a very smart man....Just like Putin...i don't retaliate.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

proving my point. You babble nonsense for no apparent reason....unless it's to try to keep making yourself relevant. Who said anything about 'retaliation' other than you? See what I mean, JP....it's babble talk.

drpruner brought my name into this topic so I entered and started a conversation that I believed had substance. I brought your name into a post because both you and he post nonsense when you run out of pertinent things to say and you proved it again. So I have to ask....you weren't part of the conversation at all up until I brought up your name, but what did you have to offer when you entered besides your normal nonsense?

as "babble"'. Bill, I'll speak for myself, politely or not. James also tries to convert my clear statements into murk. And he claims to know the Bible, but his babbling is about Jehovah, so his fault is greater. Toni, by her own admission, lacks that knowledge.
Please post only for yourself.
BTW James has forgotten the time when one of his replies to me was deleted, I think because it was deemed insulting to me or my religion. I asked the Mods to restore it, and they did. We've heard much worse from various dictators and prison guards over the years, and they had authority.

I did not admit to not having the knowledge. Your interpretation of my statement is totally incorrect. I have had the EXPERIENCE of dealing with people who claim to 'know' religion, and they are ALL different interpretations. I prefer to have my OWN and not be coerced or bullied into submission. How I serve God is MY business ALONE and only GOD will be the ultimate judge of my belief, faith, and actions. To quote you "I've met people like you" and you are NOT the 'end all' except in your own mind.

You can take that statement any way you want....I found it to be offensive when you used it against me with regard to my rejection of your offers to 'enlighten' me. I have personally found JW's to be bullies and extremely rigid when confronted by people 'like me' who don't kowtow into submission. However, I don't go out of my way to demean them like they do.....you are entitled to your faith and belief. Please recognize that I deserve the same respect. I'd much prefer to have God decide for me if I'll have a seat at His table and not you.

"And he claims to know the Bible", meaning James. Then, "Toni, by her own admission, lacks that knowledge" - of the Bible, that is. A true statement; you have many times said with evident satisfaction that you don't read it. You know Jesus, you say, from "personal experience", but not from the one book that contains 99% of what there is to know about him.
A true statement: I have indeed met people like you. They sincerely say they love and worship Jesus in their own way (each different from your way and from each other's of course). Therefore they say sincerely that they don't need instruction in or interpretation of the Bible. You say that how you serve God is your business alone. Shouldn't it be God's business? Whose business is it how you serve an employer? If that employer gives you written instructions for doing your job, how will you respond? In fact the Bible gives us clear information on what work you'll be doing when you sit at God's table. When do you intend to read that information?

I never said I don't read the Bible, dr.....I said I don't read posts here in SE that cite scriptures or post them in their entirety. When you can't even comprehend what someone says 'to your face' because your mind is so closed as to shut out actual debate or factual statements, how can anybody take you seriously? I have had personal experiences that I rely on.......and as I said before, God is my only judge regarding how I've lived my life and the faith I have in Him. Your bullying attempting to pound me into submission isn't God's way at all....show me in the Bible you use that says your tactics/methods are correct and acceptable to Him. THAT post I'll read. I compare JW's to members of Scientology......it's all bogus and self-serving and doesn't necessarily serve God in the manner He had His Son use to gather believers. However, I still feel you are entitled to your belief, even if I don't agree with it.....I just don't feel compelled to try to 'convert' you. Shouldn't everyone be comfortable with the way they choose to serve? You mentioned in another post that JW's are patriotic no matter what country they live in.....do you have records to show that that patriotism includes enlisting in the military of those countries? Or do you use the 'conscientious objector' excuse to not involve yourself for your fellow man?

patriotic no matter what country they live in."
My reply (to Steven) was, "The LDS church is patriotic, in whatever country they're found. Very few go against that practice. History."
Some years ago the LDS signed an agreement with the Hungarian SSR to allow their men to be subject to the draft and service in the Hungarian Army. In return they were allowed to practice their faith openly. In the meantime we were still neutral and therefore banned; we continued to practice our faith underground. A few months later the Iron Curtain fell, and the new government extended religious liberty to all. We now worship openly, and without compromise.
And we do indeed 'involve ourself for our fellow man'.
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/activities/help-community/hungary-danube-flooding-relief-efforts/#?insight[search_id]=2b95cdfb-d0d3-4ff7-b172-ff7144a09b05&insight[search_result_index]=4
And
https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/hungary/holocaust-memorial-honors-jehovahs-witnesses/#?insight[search_id]=2b95cdfb-d0d3-4ff7-b172-ff7144a09b05&insight[search_result_index]=5

then you're refusing to read answers to questions you ask. Is that rational?
For some time it has been my custom to cite only, when answering with scripture. The Bible is too important to be spoon-fed to people; its own pattern of teaching is just the way we do it now.
If you read the Bible, then why do you insist that, "How I serve God is MY business ALONE and only GOD will be the ultimate judge of my belief, faith, and actions." The Bible says something entirely different for the first part, and the second part is true, which is bad news in that case. Like the employer I mentioned. Can you give me anger-free, rational answers to those questions? You can use the Bible if you want to.

to quote the scripture, not just paste where it's found, and also given one reason as being you referenced two versions you prefer, one the American Standard, but the other used most, the NWT, and also told that's a version that doesn't appear on such sites as biblehub where many other versions exist. Reason being of course because the NWT isn't a "translation", and JW's object if it's described on such sites as a transliteration or "study bible" or "interpretive version".

Plus, "that's answered at...." with no correlation given by you as to what you think the particular passage means. Check your feet for dust.

90% of your post is irrelevant, incorrectly quoted and false- deliberately so.

...about Lying?

I'M not the one being irrational here, dr......and I've not used anger at all in my responses. I've attempted to be respectful of your right to believe in any fashion you want, whereas, you have been the one attempting to use bullying and intimidation to 'coerce' or 'convert' me into your beliefs. I hoped that you would respect my same right, but that doesn't seem to be an option for you, which is why I avoid JW's like the plague....you still haven't shown me even ONE 'scripture' from your Bible that defends using your methods/tactics; however your own JW HISTORY (which you used repeatedly as a 'term' of 'knowledge') shows that your own LEADER used them to alter your entire 'religion' from the very beginning. I have no desire to continue this 'discussion' because you aren't interested in anything being discussed with respect for another's opinion or belief....your entire 'discussion' with me has been based on personal insults and deliberate misinterpretations of my words in order to 'change my mind' and that isn't going to happen. I'm not playing your game anymore where I attempt to gain/garner your respect for my refusing to 'join' and you push back even harder.

And your 'patriotic' examples of 'helping your fellow man' is another example of your avoiding the topic of military support, no matter what country you are found in, is a joke. YOU can 'serve God' in the manner YOU are comfortable with, but you snidely discount MY service to God as unacceptable to God. You keep proving my point about being an 'elitist' religion with no tolerance for anyone's belief that isn't yours. You wanted other countries to acknowledge and respect your preferred religion and when they didn't you went 'underground' rather than stand up to them....somebody bullied you and you hid. MY Bible has thousands of instances where Christians were willing to die for their belief in Jesus.....evidently your religion doesn't feel the same way. I guess that makes MY beliefs stronger than yours..........

The anger is evident in your choice of words, and frequent use of upper-case. Your irrationality shows in the lack of connectedness of your thoughts.
Specifics: I use bullying and intimidation how? Do I swing at you with a digital two-by-four? Do I stick your head in the toilet at recess? Do I body-shame you on Instagram?
'Haven't shown you even one scripture...' is a false statement. Many have been posted, including my first to you in this thread. Your particular idiosyncrasy means you don't make the effort to read them for yourself. That means you can deny that I offered them to you. Irrational. Ezek 33:1 ff.
"Your own JW history" is NOT ours, as you well know. It's That is on our website jw.org, for all to see. There are 'histories' posted by opposers, to be picked up and reposted by other opposers who lack the honesty and courage to go to the source. Their opposition is out of willful ignorance. Acts 18:6
The example of public service I linked to was not "patriotism", that's your word. We pitched in during a time of trouble to help our fellow man, even though in a country whose 'fellow men' had once imprisoned and killed us for Christian neutrality, the topic of the other link. Thousands of us died in Germany alone. History. John 17:14,16
And do you remember reading "JW" for "LDS" in one of my posts, and posting a diatribe based on your own mistake? Do you recognize it as a mistake? Did it matter, as long as you could post a diatribe and hope no one would notice?
I have not avoided the subject of military service in several years on SE; far from it. We do not join the world's armies because of clear scriptural instruction from our God Jehovah and His son. You want me to justify our methods from the scriptures. The two links to jw.org did just that, but you didn't read them. Here's the second one again. Don't read it this time either, then you can accuse me of ignoring your request.
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/
'being bullied and then hiding' is far from the truth. We continued our worship of Jehovah, which includes meeting together and preaching the good news of Jehovah's kingdom, only clandestinely. There are many examples of such in your Bible. Scriptural examples, which you will find an excuse not to read. The Book of Acts of the Apostles. We have our own section in the National Holocaust Museum. Stop by when you're in the area. Evangelical Pastor and decorated WWI hero Martin Niemoller knew us when he got in the camps, and gave his reluctant approval to our neutral stand, which was not his or his Church's.
Finally, without recourse to God's word, which it is clear you do not know, you will continue to be ignorant of what Jehovah thinks of your service to him. At Mt 7:21 ff. his son talked about it, but angrily, not snidely. You could learn of it, but I fear you will not.

because, in my opinion, the way that JW's have rewritten their OWN history is much like how the Dems here in the USA have completely rewritten their own....and they did it via our education system so we have a bunch of morons, illiterates, and entitlement freaks voting in our elections today. They did it all and stupid Republican Conservatives didn't see it coming and out of 'tolerance' allowed it to happen until we finally woke up with the realization that we may be too late to put things right again. That's called propaganda, dr....and JW's employ the same tactics/methods....look at our BLM movement, the ACLU, the 'war' against our police officers, the way our military were treated during and after the VietNam war and are still being treated badly by a president who commands them. Some is very covertly and quietly done while other actions are very visible and intimidating....those methods worked for far too long, are still working within our governments, even at the highest levels, and all under the guise of being 'politically correct'....

I use capitals when I want emphasis....it isn't anger on my part at all....frustration at times, yes, because you refuse to see any other point of view but your own, because you actually BELIEVE that your way is the ONLY way. THAT is intolerance....I can forgive your fanaticism in your belief, but I am tolerant enough to allow you to believe any way you want....but ONLY until I feel that tolerance is a one way street and you aren't practicing the same intolerance that you demand/expect of me. You believe that ones who don't agree with you aren't worthy of tolerance OR forgiveness...instead you resort to personal insults, just as our liberal Dems do when they run out of options for debate material. Throwing your scriptures, quoted or not, doesn't help your cause either....and you've attempted to do that again but now you are using the line of 'you won't read it anyhow' to try to make a point. If you ALREADY know I won't read, what I consider to be your garbage, why do you insist on not only posting it, but follow it with a personal slam? Because your methods/tactics are tried, true, and well practiced over time and you, yourself, are frustrated over the fact that I honestly oppose it enough to ignore the scriptures you keep trying to 'force' on me with coercion or 'public shame' methods.

That's unacceptable to me....and since you insist on continuing those tactics rather than reasonably accept that I am one convert you CAN'T convert and be polite about it, I'm done responding to you in this thread. You have accused me of being 'angry' and 'snide'....but evidently you haven't re-read ANY of your posts to ME, dr. You see refusal to be swayed as a personal injury....which proves my point about your misinterpretation of my words, and you've done it deliberately on most if not all occasions in order to make YOUR point.
A very good artist of practiced propaganda does the same thing...How do you think Hitler convinced his ENTIRE country to wipe out millions of people as the Master Race? You don't even come close to having that kind of charisma when it comes to your foisting your religion onto people, dr.

Bye......

[OK, here's your answer.]
"I refuse to look at it!"
We meet many like you.

...but not to listen? And when you were called upon to tive an answer concerning the hope within you, your answer was, "I refuse to look at it!" Typical.

...tell me the 10% even you consider true.

How could anyone ask a person to leave someone (or something) they love by challenging the reason for their faithfulness or bashing the object of that person's love? Makes no sense to me. It would seem to have the opposite affect.

If someone doesn't believe, then they should leave. In JW they will do you the favor of pushing you out the door if they think you don't believe as they. Many ex JW's do appreciate the shove and the shun, but not the church trying to force it's application on their family members still in JW.

I'm especially interested to know where I 'bashed the object of Toni's love', which is Jesus.

I was making a feeble attempt to convey a thought through figurative language. I don't claim to be good at it. But, when arguing the Bible, we are looking at a huge amount of figurative language and not a primer that's easily understood.

In simple terms, here is what I meant. I cannot see how a person who wants to win another person to there side dwells more on being critical of that person's choices than in speaking positively of their own. I feel the same about our political choices. I won't support a person based on how badly they speak of another.

As for "love"...would a man or woman wanting to take the place of another person's boyfriend/girlfriend/BFF, whatever, do so by bashing their current choice or would a better method be to display themselves as being a more desirable choice? The same could go for one's church.

If you treat all people with dignity and respect them even if you believe their thinking is faulty, you've a better chance of having them follow you when you walk away than if you show contempt for them or what they hold dear.

which may give you a more accurate view of us than the one in your post: "you went 'underground' rather than stand up to [persecutors]...."
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jehovah-s-witnesses-in-the-holocaust
I was surprised to find it on a Jewish site; their source is cited: National Holocaust Memorial Museum. I believe it's a simple transcript of the NHMM introduction to the purple triangle section.
The Bruno Bettleheim mentioned was a Jewish psychoanalyst who spent over a year in two camps. "Released from Dachau in 1939 after the personal intervention on his behalf by Eleanor Roosevelt and then New York Gov. Herbert Lehman". He knew us personally.
http://www.jta.org/1990/03/15/archive/bruno-bettelheim-psychoanalyst-and-holocaust-survivor-dead-at-86

I must give you the opportunity to read this:
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20150901/jw-beliefs/
And this:
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/

....a cult group of killers, and now play the wounded party when she objected and considered your actions cult like too?

WOW, that really takes some gall!

What the JW's long for. "Godly" violence on earth to all non JW's.

dpruner, read Hebrews chapter 12 and Romans chapter 12, look for the word "Peace" if it's still in the NWT corruption of Scriptures.

....you might run off with a Jim Jones to some god forsaken camp in the jungle and "drink the kool-aid". Maybe you think Toni would prefer the "Heaven's Gate" group leaving here in UFO's from the space brothers? If anyone rejects the JW doctrines they are destined for the truly wacko groups? Or just wishful thinking after a number of door rejections?

by how people behave or treat us than by what they say to us. There could be no greater complement paid to a person than hearing from another that they wish they could be more like them. Their may also be no greater turn off than telling someone (bluntly) that their thinking is all wrong. As for arguing scripture, I don't find it to be of much use unless all who are in the argument already value the scripture. If they do, their lives and behavior should already show it.