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So very sad.

It was close to heartbreaking to see John McCain tossing his credibility and reputation overboard last night.

Too sad.

On the other hand, Giuliani's shrill whining is always good for a laugh.

Dan

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Re: So very sad.

In reply to: So very sad.

I didn't watch any of it, but I just don't understand how John McCain can endorse Bush so enthusiastically after what the Bush campaign tried to do to him in 2000. Agree or disagree with McCain's politics, he's always been a man of integrity. I imagine I'd feel the same way seeing Bruce Springsteen doing a McDonald's commercial.

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I guess McCain has an open mind. Too bad you don't

In reply to: So very sad.

allow him to exercise his own judgement, and respect that. It should give you something to think about, but I'll guess you won't move beyond your emotion.

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I love the irony in your post...

In reply to: I guess McCain has an open mind. Too bad you don't

....since exercising his own judgment and thinking independently is exactly what has made him a pariah to many in the Republican party. Dan's point (and mine) is that his "return to the fold" seems like he's turned his back on that integrity and is now toeing the party line. It's a shame.

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(NT) (NT) Spot on, Josh.

In reply to: I love the irony in your post...

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Re: I love the irony in your post...and yours

In reply to: I love the irony in your post...

You don't see or consider even the slightest possibility that McCain sees that the Kedwards team is a dangerous two-some for this country and would prefer to endorse Bush because he really believes that Bush is on the right track after all? For all the flipflopping that Kerry has done in his long and disengenuous career, even McCain can see that Bush hasn't hurt this country anywhere near as much as the Kedwards team has the ability to do should they become our country's representatives all over the world. There is a huge difference between making/keeping allies and sucking up to known enemy countries or countries who think that can manipulate our 'leaders'. Why do you think so many of them right now want Kerry....it's surely not because he's such a sweet guy and a good leader. It's because they see him as easily manipulated and intimidated and he can used without much effort.

TONI

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All I know is two things:

In reply to: Re: I love the irony in your post...and yours

1. McCain and Kerry have been friends for a very long time. I doubt McCain would hold Kerry in such high personal regard if he thought as little of him as you might wish and/or thought he was dangerous.

2. The Bush campaign tried to smear McCain's service record in 2000 in a manner very similar to that being employed against Kerry this year. McCain has denounced the content of the "Swift Boat" ads as dishonest. It just doesn't add up to a ringing endorsement of Bush to me, which is why it's so puzzling to me to see him up on the convention stage.

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Re: All I know is two things:

In reply to: All I know is two things:

maybe he relizes bush is better in office than the dem

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Re: All I know is two things:

In reply to: Re: All I know is two things:

It's certainly possible. But a "hey, I'm not crazy about him but between the two, I guess I'll vote for him" speech probably would not have led to this discussion.

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Haven't you personally ever had a

In reply to: Re: All I know is two things:

friend who you liked alot even though you knew in your heart that he/she wasn't a very responsible person? When it comes to something as important as running a country, perhaps McCain had to make the decision of going with his friend out of loyalty or going with the best person to do the job, and he knew his friend wasn't up to the task.

After all, wasn't McCain one of the POW's that Kerry could have gotten killed with his anti-VietNam public statements by removing that 'bargaining chip' way back when? Perhaps the sleeping dog has woken up to bite the hand that got him tortured.......and using subtle method (and alot of class) to get that point across now.

And in case you missed it, Josh...Kerry's group tossed the first volley with attacking Bush's National Guard record long before the SwiftBoat and other ads ever appeared so that argument of yours won't wash well or get swallowed easily anymore.

TONI

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Re: Haven't you personally ever had a

In reply to: Haven't you personally ever had a

I'm sure that if McCain thought Kerry had endangered his life, they wouldn't be friends.

Sure, I have friends like that, but that wouldn't explain the ringing endorsement of the other guy.

"Kerry's group?" Bush's military record was discussed in the 2000 campaign also, long before Kerry began running for office. John Kerry has not, AFAIK, attacked Bush's service record.

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Don't you think

In reply to: Re: Haven't you personally ever had a

that the four year old rehash and then the request for Bush's service records in the National Guard was brought back up again conveniently just as Kerry announced he was accepting the nomination, by one or more of his supporting groups? That's the first volley, since it should have been a dead issue from four years ago, Josh. Kerry's people are making a huge todo over the SwiftBoat ads demanding that they be denounced by Bush, but aren't satisfied with Bush denouncing ALL of those types of ads and stating that they should ALL stop. They want specific wording from Bush denouncing the SwiftBoat ads, which would be tanamount to Bush declaring that he didn't believe any of the SwiftBoat vets' statements about Kerry. He has distanced himself only to the point of saying that BOTH sides should cease and desist and that's not what Kerry wants. Kerry instead has threatened to sue the MEDIA that run the ads, rather than threaten to sue the MESSENGERS that have the message they want to get out. Why wouldn't he be more inclined to threaten the 'slander/libel' unless there are grains of truth to it all and he can't go down that slippery slope any further than he's already slid. And I guess it wouldn't look real good for him to sue fellow VietNam vets.........I haven't heard him say ONE WORD that they are lying, either. He's ONLY commented that the attack against him is 'unfair'. He's yet to truly defend himself and his own seared in memory and statements he's made in the past....and yet BUSH himself has more or less defended Kerry with the statements that Bush has made about Kerry's military record.

TONI

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Re: Don't you think

In reply to: Don't you think

Kerry's people are making a huge todo over the SwiftBoat ads...

As well they should be.

...but aren't satisfied with Bush denouncing ALL of those types of ads and stating that they should ALL stop.

I wouldn't be either. Bush claims to believe that Kerry served his country admirably. If he believes that, then he should denounce the content of those ads (as John McCain did) and not just the loophole that allowed them to be made.
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Re: Don't you think

In reply to: Re: Don't you think

I dont think its appropriate for the government (in this case, GWB) to ask any one person or group to be silent.

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Re: Don't you think

In reply to: Re: Don't you think

There's a difference between saying "I think these ads are dishonest and dishonorable" and saying "shut up."

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Been listening for Kerry to say the same thing

In reply to: Re: Don't you think

about his own groups and that hasn't happened yet, so why should Bush be required to do so?

TONI

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Re: Been listening for Kerry to say the same thing

In reply to: Been listening for Kerry to say the same thing

The anti-Kerry ads appeared first. It would be nice for the person theoretically being helped by those ads (Bush) to speak up first.

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Re: Been listening for Kerry to say the same thing

In reply to: Re: Been listening for Kerry to say the same thing

The anti-Kerry ads appeared first.

There were no anti-Bush ads, statements, and accusations during the Democratic primary speeches and debates?

Or Kerry was singled out and insulted before he basically won the nomination?

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
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Re: Been listening for Kerry to say the same thing

In reply to: Re: Been listening for Kerry to say the same thing

I figured Toni was referring to the ad from MoveOn that called Bush a deserter and stuff like that. That ad appeared after the "swift boat" ad. And now that I think about it, and if I recall correctly, Kerry has denounced that ad's content.

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Re: Been listening for Kerry to say the same thing

In reply to: Re: Been listening for Kerry to say the same thing

> The anti-Kerry ads appeared first.

Oh really? Just to mention one of many things: why were the Michael Moorons dancing with glee after seeing Farenhate, rather than denouncing this anti-American garbage as any honorable person would have done?

You're known by the company you keep. It's whiny and disingenuous to demand that President Bush save Kerry's campaign by specifically denouncing the Swift Boat ads after remaining silent while Kerry did nothing to denounce this one thing that I just mentioned, and many many "moore" that I will not mention.

Besides, I know for a fact that Democrats are phony enough to demand that President Bush denounce the ads, only to lie in wait and then claim that he's "coordinating" with this particular 527 if he did so and they stopped airing the ads. So let John "I'm an internationalist" Kerry and his Michael Moorons deal with it. They asked for it.

DE

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Sounds to me like...

In reply to: Don't you think

Kerry and Bush both want to limit someone else's right to free speech. Shame on both of them...

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campaign finance reform

In reply to: Sounds to me like...

Bush wanted the 527's to stop several months ago, I think in May. He hasnt changed his mind, since. I agree with him. The Bush administration and a few others, Democrats included, thought campaign finance reform had been fixed. Apparently it hasnt been, or else it has been and the election commission (whats it called?) has refused to say anything until after the election. Ive heard comments about it saying that its made up, half and half, of conservatives and liberals, so its pretty much toothless, anyway. We will see.

But you wouldnt be alone in disagreeing with the idea of campaign finance reform.

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Re: All I know is two things:

In reply to: All I know is two things:

I think McCain can seperate personal friendship from the business at hand.

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Re: All I know is two things:

In reply to: All I know is two things:

Well, if thats all you know then that easily explains your support for Kerry...:-P

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Maybe he just forgot all this stuff

In reply to: So very sad.

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Re: Maybe he just forgot all this stuff....and

In reply to: Maybe he just forgot all this stuff

although McCain never said a word against Kerry in his speech before, during, or after, here's his good friend Kerry plastering those reminders all over his political website about McCain. So, by keeping any of those articles or statements at the forefront, how is Kerry's smear as retaliation against McCain for his support of Bush any different than anything he's accusing Bush of doing?

TONI

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